>>6454935
I think we're pretty much good on the damage scale. As far as range and movement, what do you want? Baseline numbers?

>>6455008
for movement i'm thinking 3 or 4 inches for normal infantry, with bigger things moving faster, say 5-6 for secondaries and 7-8 for primaries.
Cavalry can simple move as fast as the type above, or twice the base units speed, not sure which would be better.

Hmm. I was thinking about four for infantry and about seven for cavalry, but give 1-2 extra move for every size increase, with higher tiers tending towards more. So God Machines might get as much as a mounted soldier, while Dragons or Angels might get like 10 or 12, and things like Avatars and Treemen fill in at around 8 or 9.

im reading the new wiki and i like the modifications. In my example i didnt post it but in the back of my mind i believe the "one roll = hits, dmg and wounds taken" is gonna lead to more problems than its worth i do understand the to hit, then a to wound roll THEN up to 3 more save rolls in WHFB is thought of as excessive and unattractive (a view i agree with) but i do believe there should be an OFFENSIVE roll (identical in theory to what is already done here) and a DEFENSIVE roll (i envision type of soak roll akin to white-wolf's) this will force a generic defense or toughness stat (that can be alerted by options and such) on every unit but it will be a common rule as appose to the very specific options for one faction... a golden rule is to play the game i should only need know the base rules and my armies' book not my opponent's as well

Oh, are we statting individual units now? I approve.

>>6455103
>i believe the "one roll = hits, dmg and wounds taken" is gonna lead to more problems than its worth
How so?

>a golden rule is to play the game i should only need know the base rules and my armies' book not my opponent's as well
There will not be multiple books. This is a project on the internet with no company involved. You get one free .pdf, probably.

>>6455162
1)the dmg = wound equation has changed and we have no stats yet
2)the balancing mechanism is options which could be much easier to explain and balance as a single number.
3) allows for more strategy ex: instead of a group of christians having + dmg vs primaries they could lower the soak dice of primaries they have fought or are engaged with so that other groups (angels/heralds) can actually hurt them. Also this option doesnt negate the idea you can have a +dmg to a unit.. but does add flavoring for armies which is always tasty

as for the multiple books thing.... the dnd players manual has all the classes in it but if you want to play a fighter you dont have to read the wizard parts... thats all im saying, calling it a golden rule is too much but its still a good un

>>6455267
I'm not really sure what you're suggesting... could you try phrasing it with less run-ons?

I do get the idea of simplifying by just providing some static values, though. I like the simplifying idea.

>>6455395
1)50 christians have to roll a "9-10" to hit and wound a god machine they roll 10
2) modified for weapon dmg this becomes 20 (this from an option the player chose)
3)god machine gets 20 dice every "1" is a wound that is permanent all others are soaked and removed
in this example 50 christian warriors knitted to do damage will do on average 2 wounds to a god machine per round. Out of a 10 wound maximum i believe this is around where you want the numbers to be with no excessive equations and the defensive player gettin to feel like he could do something about the damage.

Some elaboration on the Huns:

Tertiary: High Move, Low Wound, Low Init, High Morale, Skirmisher Unit
Can be upgraded with a variety of mutations such as, but not limited to: Acid Gullet (The unit spits acid instead of firing a bow, dealing AE damage), Eldritch Longbow (The units use their spirit-kin in place of traditional bows and the unit counts as a Secondary for determining to-hit on ranged attacks), Refined Reflexes (Increases Init, usually taken with Eldritch Spear), Eldritch Spear (The units forsake bows to wield their spirit kin as spears. The unit counts as a Secondary for determining to-hit on melee attacks. Can no longer used ranged attacks), Putrid Presence (Enemy units must pass a morale check before attacking), Frightening Form (Makes nearby enemy units take a penalty to Rout checks), Unstable Resolve (If the unit fails a Rout check, it will attempt to retreat by moving the maximum distance allowed by its move score. If the unit cannot retreat to a location where it is outside melee range of an enemy unit, it will rout as normal).

Statline looks good.

>Acid Gullet (The unit spits acid instead of firing a bow, dealing AE damage)
Let's count it as giving an extra attack too. AoE damage isn't a huge bonus.
>Eldritch Longbow (The units use their spirit-kin in place of traditional bows and the unit counts as a Secondary for determining to-hit on ranged attacks),
The idea, fluffwise, isn't supposed to be that they're using their spiritkin, but rather, that the spiritkin has modified their bodies. Works crunchwise, though.
>Refined Reflexes (Increases Init, usually taken with Eldritch Spear),
Solid.
>Eldritch Spear (The units forsake bows to wield their spirit kin as spears. The unit counts as a Secondary for determining to-hit on melee attacks. Can no longer used ranged attacks), Solid, besides the same fluff concern. Should be expensive.
>Putrid Presence (Enemy units must pass a morale check before attacking),
Seems solid. Could get to be broken with higher tier units penalizing Morale, though.
>Frightening Form (Makes nearby enemy units take a penalty to Rout checks),
>Unstable Resolve (If the unit fails a Rout check, it will attempt to retreat by moving the maximum distance allowed by its move score. If the unit cannot retreat to a location where it is outside melee range of an enemy unit, it will rout as normal).
This doesn't make sense. Do you mean that the the Hun unit will behave in this matter when encountering a morale check normally? That's overpowered, and the name is misleading. Do you mean that it will force this behavior in a group being routed normally? That's inferior to the norm. Do you mean it will cause them to take a morale check and behave in this fashion? That would work, I suppose. Magic phase dickery, which I'm inclined to dislike, but this seems fine.

Statline: Move 7, Wound 1, Init 3, Morale 7, Skirmisher Unit
Good?

>>6455712
>>6455890
>Acid Gullet
i like i also like the idea of upping attack but feel like they should be separate and stackable
>Refined Reflexes
very nice i feel that the huns in general will be a high init army and this perhaps can be taken multiple times for an increased cost
>Putrid Presence
as long as its only for enemies initiating combat this is great
>Frightening Form
if tier dependent this is good. Low tier units shouldnt be able to lower higher tier morale without a massive cost
>Unstable Resolve
only miss fire here
>Eldritch Longbow
>Eldritch Spear
i like the idea of getting +1 to the roll as appose to the tier (so a tier 1 to 3 is usually a 9 or 10 only with this it will be a 8,9 or 10)
an upgrade could also be as you wrote it but should be separate and fairly expensive (since this is basically making a tier 1.5 unit it should cost at least +25-50% of the unit base).
I also like the idea of unit commanders that take the bow/spear rule as their base stat.

>>6455910
i've assumed that huns will not be a horribly high morale race. Unmodified 7 as a base feels a little high to me, but until u have all the others to put up against its pretty difficult to judge. Did you have a stat line for a basic human in your mind while you wrote that up?

>>6456235
I'm thinking a basic human would be M4 W1 I5 M7, and Size 1, which I forgot up there. Huns should always be mounted, hence the Move increase. Huns, I could see as having lowish morale. Initiative I gave them low because
>>6455712
suggested it, but honestly, that makes no fucking sense.
Let's call the statline
M7 W1 I6 M6 S1

>>6456340
erm, we have two M stats. Not so cool... I guess call it the second one Mora[l]e - make it an L instead.

>>6456188
>i like i also like the idea of upping attack but feel like they should be separate and stackable
I disagree. We don't want to give everyone easy, widely applicable extra attacks at the tertiary level. Sure, havong a method of obtaining those attacks is cool, but it shouldn't be something people are likely to take all the time, unless it;s intended to be a big part of that army.

>>6456340
there is an idea that initiative is a function of intelligence or instinct, orks for example think but are pretty dumb so they cant get their shit together enuff to attack quickly and efficiently... thus they had a low Init in both WHs. Huns seem to have that feral instinct so a higher initiative seems to be in order, perhaps this is also the reason for their low morale, a strong fight/flight mindset... just thinking out loud.

Standard bearers would give troops +1 leadership. The exception would be the Christians, who use a cross with someone nailed to it and who is constantly screaming out his devotion and singing psalms. This would give the unit +2 leadership but would be more expensive.

>>6456428
im also having a harder time seeing the difference between an aoe attack and upping the attacks from a numbers perspective. AOE attacks basically punish poor model placement and are rarely cost effective against experienced TTs players. Attacks in this system just multiply the amount of hits you rolled, while aoe will effect what, the number of to hit dice you have?

>>6456492
Naw. No need to bother with stuff like that.

>>6456513
All AoE does is let you place attacks differently. It doesn't increase anything, but if you've got more than one units in splash range, you can divide your attacks among them. That's why I considered it a rather minor advantage, and suggested adding a bonus attack to make it more special.

>>6456606
becareful of creating a rock paper scissor list battle with very little consideration give to the placement and moving of the actual models. I understand simplifying but theres 6 races and at least 3 units per to create with only 4 semi-variable stats.

I still am voting for the addition of a save/soak die stat over the need to get 10-100 hits to wound a higher tier units, im off gl and god speed gentlemen

Hey guise, is dis Warhammer the Goddening?

>>6455890
>The idea, fluffwise, isn't supposed to be that they're using their spiritkin, but rather, that the spiritkin has modified their bodies.
>Solid, besides the same fluff concern. Should be expensive.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. The spirit-kin bow/spear would be physically grafted to the Hun's body in the place of one of their arms. It wouldn't be something they could simply unequip.

>This doesn't make sense. ...

Fair enough, how about switching to simply giving them an easier time of passing Rout checks?

>very nice i feel that the huns in general will be a high init army

Maybe the higher tier units, but their tertiary is, by default, a mounted archer. Since init is used for melee combat, it's not the most useful thing for them.

>i've assumed that huns will not be a horribly high morale race.

Personally, I've assumed the opposite on the line of thought that they don't think quite the same way normal people do. After all, they view horrible monsters from beyond the veil as family and honored companions. They shouldn't be easy to frighten.

>>6456751

Kinda.

>>6456901
>Perhaps I wasn't clear. The spirit-kin bow/spear would be physically grafted to the Hun's body in the place of one of their arms. It wouldn't be something they could simply unequip.
Certainly.
>Fair enough, how about switching to simply giving them an easier time of passing Rout checks?
Still doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why would they get this bonus?

>Maybe the higher tier units, but their tertiary is, by default, a mounted archer. Since init is used for melee combat, it's not the most useful thing for them.
You raise a valid point. I suppose this is true.

>Personally, I've assumed the opposite on the line of thought that they don't think quite the same way normal people do. After all, they view horrible monsters from beyond the veil as family and honored companions. They shouldn't be easy to frighten.
I don't think that ties in at all. It's not like the Spirit Kin are trying to kill them

>>6457000
>I don't think that ties in at all. It's not like the Spirit Kin are trying to kill them

True enough. It just strikes me as unusual that a guy who sleeps with shoggoths would be afraid of much or have normal risk assessment skills.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/
Is down right?

>>6457638

It appears to be, yeah.

>>6457054
They don't see them as shoggoths, they see them as spirit guides.

They'd probably look at the Romans and go JESUS CHRIST LOOK AT THOSE FUCKING METAL ABOMINATIONS

Instead of statting each tertiary individually, we might want to try to do them simultaneously, since their stats should reflect how they compare to each other more so than how they compare to a normal person. After all, the closest thing to a mundane tertiary would be either the war elephants or the power armor wearing legionnaires.

In terms of movement: Huns > Indians > Celts > Christians > Chinese = Romans
The Huns and Indians are fastest because their tertiaries are both mounted. The Chinese and Romans are slowest because they're in formation (Additionally the Chinese are automatons and the Romans are weighted down by armor).

For wounds, I'd say that Christians, Celts and Indians get 2 and the rest get 1. Christians are tougher because of their experience and divine bodyparts. The warpaint is supposed to make the Celts tougher (though, I think it might be a bit too tough since they already count as secondaries for defensive purposes). And the Indian tertiary gets 2 because it's an elephant.

Initiative: Not really sure on this one other than Celts having the highest due to their more feral nature and being unrestricted by armor, and that unmutated Huns should be the lowest since they're archers by default. Though, I'm inclined to say that Christians should be faster than both the Romans and Chinese due to having more battlefield experience.

Morale: Chinese > Christians > Romans > Celts = Huns > Indians
Chinese get high morale on their tertiary, because, as terracotta golems, they literally feel no fear. Christians are powered by their zealous faith in Jesus. Romans have harsh discipline. And the Indian war elephants are quick to frighten (though, I'd say that instead of routing they go berserk and attack whatever is closest).

>>6457826

Yeah, I see your point.

>>6457826
>Jesus Christ
>Huns

>>6457826
>They'd probably look at the Romans and go GREAT CTHULHU LOOK AT THOSE FUCKING METAL ABOMINATIONS

Norse mecha covered in runes and made frome the bones and skin of mythical beasts, the catch? it isn't powered by anything. The berserker inside just receives inhuman strength to lift the 16-foot 2 ton monstrosity.

Also Alexanders armor forged from the defeated chassis of the Olympians still lies somewhere to the east lost& buried like the Guardians of the Egyptian Kings. Its precise location only documented in Eumenes' original Histories, now resting in the sunken libraries of Alexandria.

>They don't see them as shoggoths, they see them as spirit guides.

If we ever get to the point where we actually start making models for this, we could do alternate models for Hun commanders based on the way they see things.

Example: Normal model has a man riding a horse with a horrible growth on his back and going up his right arm. The Alternate vision model has a cute girl hugging him from behind.

>>6457992
Norse armor forge by dorfs obviously

Wiki is down =/

>>6457992

>Alexander

Yet another puny mortal who thinks he could compare to my legacy.

A large group of men were sitting inside a cabin. Women brought them large mugs of mead and carried away the emptied vessels. At the head of the table was a large beast of a man wearing rune covered armor, and he sat on an equally impressive wood and stone throne.

A man to the chieftain's right was speaking. "We should accept the job, Eric. They're offering us more gold and jewels for a single battle than we could make in an entire year working for either Nero or Boudica."

"Has the glint of gold made you mad, Harald?" Another man at the table quickly interjected. "Eric, you know we can't work with those ... things."

"Come off it, Ingvar. As unpleasant as they may be, you can't deny that they're giving us the world on a silver platter."

"Yes, and I can see from the tarnish on that platter that this deal is poisonous."

"Poisonous? Ha, have you had too much to drink?"

Ingvar looked at his friend incredulously. "I should ask the same of you."

>>6458385

"How is this deal poisoned? We're on for a single battle against a Roman fort in Georgia. We know just how poorly equipped that fort is because we've been inside to accept Caesar's coin. We won't even have to work with that many of the dirty bastards, since their main force is going to be preparing to besiege Tbilisi. We'll just be there long enough to get the Romans riled up and away from Attila's real target."

"What you're leaving out is the risk to our minds and souls. You have seen those things. They aren't right in the head, and I don't want to catch whatever it is they have."

"That's enough." Eric finally spoke up. His voice was soft, but it carried a sense of authority that instilled silence across the entire building. "The Huns may be peculiar, but they are still human... if only barely. We shall accept this job, and we shall carry it out with pride. Caution is admirable, but we are the Sons of Odin, and we will not shy away in fear like children afraid of the night. Prepare your things, we'll begin marching as soon as the snow has ceased."

A Roman patrol was marching through the forest. Several legionnaires wearing the unfortunately named lorica faulta accompanied by a dozen Man Machines. The path was narrow, but, for the most part, the men were able to remain in formation.

"I hate this damn forest."

"You and me both."

"Eh, I don't mind the forest, but the women are ugly."

"The wine tastes like piss, too."

"Hey, that just means all the more for me!"

"Why did a fan of Bacchus like yourself join the Legion in the first place?"

"Yeah, shouldn't you be back in Rome or Athens?"

"What, you guys didn't hear? Arturius got himself in trouble with the law. It was either Legion work or the arena."

"... so why the fuck is he here? I'd sooner be in the arena than this hell hole."

"Yeah, women love gladiators."

"Alright, that's enough." The commander shouted out before giving a sigh. "I understand that no one wants this assignment, but we have a job to do, so act like Romans and show some discipline."

"YES SIR!" The entire group responded in unison.

>>6458756

The group of men continued their march, with the clanging of their armor and the occasional animal as the only sounds. But soon a large creaking sound broke the monotony.

"Stand sharp boys! It seems we may have some company."

Suddenly a tree burst from the side of the path, and a large wooden hand came crashing down, scattering the Roman soldiers around it.

A call came out. "STAY. IN. FORMATION!" But, it was too late, as men covered with blue pain poured out from the forest. Their swords and axes quickly burying themselves in Roman flesh.

The Man Machines were the only things to remain in their proper formation as legionnaires below them were divided, surrounded, and cut down. The men piloting the machines stood firm against the Celtic attackers, their resolve left unbroken by the sudden attack and damning odds.

One of the pilots muttered under his breath while swinging his massive sword at an oncoming Woaden. The man's body being thrown against a tree where others would have been cut in two. "Oh, Jupiter, Romulus, Mars, Caesar... one of you help us!"

A sharp snap rang through the air as light flashed in the shadows of the forest, and the large treeman who had been terrorizing the dwindling legionnaires exploded. Wooden sharpnel flew threw the air, piercing through Roman and Celt alike. Soldiers on both sides of the conflict turned their heads to the source of the light to see a collosal bronze man striding towards them, and behind the God Machine were a number of reinforcing soldiers.

Bump, just saw the new thread.

>>6455712
Looks ok. I agree with the others that Huns should be relatively bad with regards to morale, though.

>>6456235
The thing is, unless something's changed with regards to morale (unfortunately, the wiki is down so I can't check), morale is roll-above. So 7 is kind of bad, which is fitting.

>>6458159
"Marduk""The Tower""The Snake's Skin" and many others the once great power of Babel lay in nothing more than a slate of clay, in it rest the first laws of men. When touched by its rightful ruler it would gather round itself all weapons, earth and even the corpses of the slain to give itself the shape of a colossal man. This, like many wonders of times past, has been lost to the sands.

Bump.

Huns were here.

Rome sucks.

>>6460673
You drawfag that just now, or is it from somewhere else?

>>6455910
Looks pretty solid.

Woaden (Celt Tertiary)

Statline: Move 4, Wounds 2, Init 7, Morale 5

Special:
-Treated as a tier higher for defense
-Receive a bonus of 1 to morale and damage when within 2" of a Druid

>>6457905
>In terms of movement: Huns > Indians > Celts > Christians > Chinese = Romans
>The Huns and Indians are fastest because their tertiaries are both mounted. The Chinese and Romans are slowest because they're in formation (Additionally the Chinese are automatons and the Romans are weighted down by armor).
So 7>6>5>4>3=3

>For wounds, I'd say that Christians, Celts and Indians get 2 and the rest get 1. Christians are tougher because of their experience and divine bodyparts. The warpaint is supposed to make the Celts tougher (though, I think it might be a bit too tough since they already count as secondaries for defensive purposes). And the Indian tertiary gets 2 because it's an elephant.
Celts should not get a bonus wound. Too powerful.
Christians should probably get one, though. The justification is a bit weak, but it'll work better for play style.

>Initiative: Not really sure on this one other than Celts having the highest due to their more feral nature and being unrestricted by armor, and that unmutated Huns should be the lowest since they're archers by default. Though, I'm inclined to say that Christians should be faster than both the Romans and Chinese due to having more battlefield experience.
Woaden 7, Christians 5, Lorica 4, Huns 4,Terracotta 3
Huns get lowish initiative, but not abysmal. Chinese are intended to be heavily oriented towards range too.

>Morale: Chinese > Christians > Romans > Celts = Huns > Indians
Chinese get high morale on their tertiary, because, as terracotta golems, they literally feel no fear. Christians are powered by their zealous faith in Jesus. Romans have harsh discipline. And the Indian war elephants are quick to frighten (though, I'd say that instead of routing they go berserk and attack whatever is closest).
9>7>6>5=5>4

>>6460673
Uhh...what the fuck are you talking about. The Huns adored Rome and Roman culture, and were responsible for conserving a great portion of it.

>>6461513
Yeah, you're right about the Celts not needing another wound, my bad.
>Statline: Move 4, Wounds 1, Init 7, Morale 5

Fixed.

>>6461538
in this setting huns = mongols.

>>6461538
Our timeline deviates before the two really encounter each other. Not too farfetch'd to figure that things went down a bit different.

>>6461538
Yeah, well, they also weren't possessed by shoggoths in real life.

>>6461513
that sounds goo so we end up with

Indian war elephants :Move 6, Wounds 2, Init 4(?), Morale 4

Celt Woaden: Move 5, Wounds 1, Init 7, Morale 5

Hun warriors: Move 7, Wounds 1, Init 4, Morale 5

Roman lorica faulta: Move 3, Wounds 1, Init 4, Morale 6

Chinese terracotta soldeirs : Move 3, Wounds 1, Init 3, Morale 9

Christians: Move 4, Wounds 2, Init 5 Morale 7

>>6461513
So this works out to, just numbers-wise, the following:

Lorica Faulta: 3M 1W 5I 6L 1S
Christians: 4M 1W 5I 7L 1S
Huns: 7M 1W 4I 5L 1S
Elephants: 6M 2W 4I 4L 2S
Woaden: 5M 1W 5L 7I 1S
Terracotta: 3M 1W 9L 3I 1S

>>6461538

They have edlritch horrors merged with their bodies, so I think it's safe to say that they're a bit different from their historical counterpart.

>>6461808
Solid.

Here are my ideas on the combat system. I apologize if most of this has been said before.
Attacking/Defending is all based off an opposed d10 roll. If the attacker rolls higher than the defender, wound. If not, no wound.
Modifiers are made to these rolls based on skill, strength, toughness, etc all rolled together into one number. For attacking, things such as exceptional strength, better quality weapons, great skill would add to your modifier, while the inverse would subtract, possibly leading to negative modifiers for some units.
For defending, variables such as quality of armour, physical toughness, etc would add/subtract from this modifier.
These would make up static modifiers, placed on the statline as something like O+3 D-1.
Variable modifiers would come into play mostly dealing with size differences, adding or subtracting 1 or 2 depending on difference.
As far as multiple wounds in a single roll go, an offense roll that exceeds that of the defense roll by X, perhaps double or triple, would deal an extra wound. In this way, someone rolling a 1 with a +3 would still be slaughtered by a 10 with a -1 or -2 modifier.
Anyone else's thoughts on this?

What about special attributes that these guys should get by default?

Woaden have already been given counts as Secondary for defensive purposes, and war elephants go berserk instead of being removed from play after a rout, but what about the other guys?

OKAY, I DON'T PLAY THESE GAMES OFTEN, AND ITS A BIT LATE FOR SUGGESTING GAME MECHANICS, BUT HERE'S MY IDEAR.

RATHER THAN HEXAGONS OR SQUARES OR EVEN GRIDS, I SUGGEST CIRCLES, CONNECTED ONLY TO CERTAIN OTHER CIRCLES FOR MAXIMUM TACTICS. EACH CIRCLE WILL BE ASSIGNED A TERRAIN AND THAT WILL AFFECT THE FIGHTIN.

UNITS CAN ONLY MOVE ONE CIRCLE, BUT, RANGED UNITS ACCEPT FOR HUNS MUST TAKE A TURN TO DEPLOY TO PREVENT OVERPOWEREDNESS.

YOU DEPLOY YOUR UNITS IN THE START AREAS, THERE CAN BE AS MANY OR AS FEW AS YOU LIKE, AS THE MAPS ARE TO BE MADE BY THE PLAYERS AND AGREED ON BY GENERAL CONSENSUS. THEN HOPEFULLY WE'LL HAVE A LOT OF REALLY GOOD USER GENERATED MAPS THAT ARE SIMPLE TO MAKE AND PRINT OUT OFF THE INTERNET FOR NOOB GROUPS.

THERES ALSO A SURROUND BONUS, IF YOU OWN TWO OR MORE CIRCLES THAT ATTACK ONE ONCE, YOU GET AN ATTACK BONUS.

THATS ALL MY THOUGHTS, IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO SUGGEST, SAY SO BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE I'M MISSING SOME VITAL STUFF. IF YOU DON'T AGREE, SAY SO POLITELY PLEASE. MORE COMING UP

>>6460803

It's from my Monsters-Bizarre image folder. Unfortunately, I don't know the source.

rolled 42 = 42

Someone needs to update 1d4chan.

>>6461914
the huns have bows, as do the terracota warriors I believe.
romans and chinese get some sort of bonus for formations.

>>6461918
>IDEAR
>ACCEPT FOR HUNS

>>6461936

It's currently down for me.

>>6461950

Terracotta can also wield pikes, and huns can get a melee mutation going on.

TERTIARY UNITS WILL BE MARKED BY CHIPS, AND ONTOP WILL BE EITHER A SECONDARY OR PRIMARY COMMANDER UNIT. THE SECONDARY IS BUFFED UP BY THE UNITS UNDER IT, BUT THE UNITS MUST HAVE THE SAME ATTACK TYPE. THIS IS WHERE FORMATIONS COME INTO PLAY.

YOU CAN CHOOSE TO ATTACK A SECONDARY OR PRIMARY DIRECTLY, AFTER ALL, THE TERTIARIES DIE WITH IT. OR, YOU CAN CHOOSE TO WEAKEN IT USING ABILITIES OR A REGULAR ATTACK TO TAKE OUT IT'S TERTIARIES. HAVING EVEN ONE OR TWO MORE GROUPS OF TERTIARIES CAN DECIDE A BATTLE SO PROTECT YOURS AND ATTACK THEIRS.

THIS SYSTEM ALLOWS THE PLAYERS TO GET THEIR SHIT REAL CHEAP, IT PREVENTS IT FROM BEING TOO COMPLICATED WITH HOARDS AND HOARDS OF TERTIARIES ALL EVERYWHERE, BUT STILL ALLOWS CUSTOMIZATION WHERE IT MATTERS. IN THE NON ZERG UNITS.

>>6461936
Its down at the moment

>>6461893
While that sounds good, its fairly different from the mechanic we've already established. We would basically have to redo things if we used that.

rolled 45 = 45

>>6461950

Here's an idea, if the Celts/Huns win in combat, and the enemy have to take a roll to stay in the fight, they do a -1 L modifier because they're screaming head-hunters/hybrids of man and monster.

>>6461993

Maybe for the Hun secondary, but I don't think that'd work for the Hun tertiary since they're archers by default.

Last night I had a dream about the Huns.

... it was kinda freaky.

>>6461993
>>6462034
look up the fear/terror rules in WHFB.

A unit attacking/attacked by a unit that causes fear/terror has to make a leadership(morale) test to see if they can go through with the attack or hold their ground.

Indian Avatar?

>>6461988
I missed the back half of the last thread, and thought this up while reading the beginning of this one. Just wanted to get my ideas out there, whether they are used or not, hey, who knows.

>>6462079

We already have a proposed mutation for Huns like this.

>Putrid Presence (Enemy units must pass a morale check before attacking)

>>6461988
THANKS, JUST MY TWO CENTS BRO, I JUST WANTED TO GET IT OUT, IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME WHETHER ITS USED OR NOT.

>>6461952
THE FIRST WAS ON PURPOSE AND THE SECOND ONE IS A BAD HABIT.

THIRD BIT, SORRY ABOUT BEING DISORGANIZED. I'M WINGING IT ANYWAYS, SO THERE'S NO HELPING THAT. RANGED UNITS ARE EASY TO OVERPOWER, AND MEELEE, EASY TO UNDERPOWER. RANGED UNITS WILL NOT EXPERIENCE A DECREASE IN ATTACK THOUGH. INSTEAD, THEIR RANGE WILL BE EITHER 2-3 CIRCLES, SO WITH THE EXTRA DEPLOYING TURN, THEIR TENDANCY TO SUCK UP CLOSE, AND THE RANGE. KEEP THOSE FUCKS PROTECTED OR ELSE. RANGED UNITS DO NOT NEED A TURN TO PREPARE TO RETREAT OR ATTACKING A SECOND TIME WITHOUT MOVING, JUST A PERIOD IN BETWEEN MOVING AND ATTACKING.

YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CORNER THE HUNS I'M AFRAID, THEY SHOOT SHIT FROM HORSES, ALTHOUGH THEIR RANGE DOESN'T EXCEED 2 CIRCLES AND THEY AREN'T AS ACCURATE AS RANGED UNITS ON FOOT.

rolled 7 = 7

>>6462079

Wait, I've got a better idea! Huns cause fear, but Celts, when attacking from a forested or something area, always attack first, regardless of their opponent.

rolled 13 = 13

>>6462123

Whoops, sorry. If this thread is about game mechanics, will the next one be additional attributes that can be given to units (like the Hun mutations)?

>>6462143

So, if they start the round in forest they get an big init boost?

>>6462166

Bingo.

>>6462159

Well, the thread isn't strictly about anything in particular.

We're just trying to add stuff as we go along. Fluff and lore has more or less been finished, and we already have basic mechanics (unfortunately the wiki is down though). So, mostly what's left is to stat things and maybe patch up a few remaining holes.

>>6462180

I can see that. Not entirely sure how useful it would be, given how reliant it is on there being a forest for them to take advantage of, but the Woaden are pretty solid as is anyway.

>>6462143
sounds good
would encourage celtic plays to launch ambushes from forests, nice and fluffy.

>>6462215
Why don't we just delimit it to "next to natural obstacles"?

The thing is, the Woaden have kickass initiative as it is. Is there some more appropriate bonus we can give them, like damage or something?

>>6462269

They already have the fact that they count as Secondaries for defensive purposes.

>>6462215
>>6462225
>>6462166
>>6462143
For adaptability's sake, why not make it "whenever a Celt unit attacks a unit that does not have Line of Sight with them, the defending unit has 1 Initiative."

This way a city or desert map can still work for them.

>>6462283

I don't think a city map should work for them, though. While it is suited for their style of tactics, it's also very much out of their natural element.

And keep in mind that they already have a nice defensive bonus as is.

>>6462283

Sounds good to me.

>>6462276
It's true, that would be a little much. It's probably for the best that it's not that powerful.

>>6462323
Agreed. They don't really need much more, the boosted defense is pretty solid as-is.

>>6462336

How about we bump down their I to makr this rule a little bit more useful?

>>6461950
Small point here: Everyone has access to the "default" gear - swords, axes, shields, longbows, shortbows, horses, spears, and possibly a few other things. Some units may not have access to all of these, but they're the general ones that go across everything. Some factions get special weapons - like the Chinese Cho-ko-nu - and they all get some sort of options - like Christian's holy body parts. But the baseline gear is available to everyone.

Formations are used by five units: Elephants, Terracotta Warriors, Lorica Faulta, and Man Machines. They are used by Fodder if the faction has access to formations, and are not if they don't. The actual formations available have not been discussed, but they do provide bonuses.

>>6462371

I'd say to just leave it with the original as applying only to forested terrain. It's fluff appropriate without being that impacting on gameplay.

>>6462433

Cool

>>6462371
Sounds good. Bump 'em down to 5, maybe? That puts them on the same level as the LF and Christians, so they'll still have an advantage against the slow-as-fuck units.

>>6462416
agreed, on formations I don't think we should make rules distinctions about the shape of the formation (other than a square or rectangular group in base contact with each other) but what bonuses would been in formation give? I'm thinking at least some sort of moral check boost due too the comfort one could take from been in formation with your fellow soldiers.

>>6462416
Formations: a row is a rank and a column is a file. A rank must have at minimum 5 models (so 5 files) to count as full. For every full rank after the first, the formation gets +1 to combat resolution (comparing wounds to see who wont the combat), up to the third rank.

For example, a formation 5 ranks deep and 5 files wide would get a bonus of +3 to combat resolution. The 5th rank does not contribute any bonus.

>>6462416

I dunno, the tertiary units strike me as being a bit too restrictive to say that there's a bunch of stuff available by default.

Huns are gonna be bowmen by default. Terracotta are mass produced and legionnaires are rather uniform, so I think they'd both have access to only a few weapon types each. Elephants have tusks and big feet, so they don't really need weapons. The only two groups that seem like they'd have much in the way of variation are the Celts and Christians.

ARMOR SYSTEM, THIS IS THE LAST ONE SO YOU WON'T HAVE ANY MORE OF THESE TO NOT READ.

I'VE ALWAYS LIKED A ROCK PAPER SCISSORS SYSTEM FOR ARMORS AND WEPINS. ITS VERY SIMPLE. THE ARMOR TYPE WILL INTERACT WITH THE ENVIRONMENT IN THE CIRCLE THAT IS BEING ATTACKED OR DEFENDED. SAY YOU ATTACK THEM IN A SWAMP. BRITTLE ARMOR IS HEAVY BY DEFAULT AND YOU GET A DE BUFF, MEDIUM IS NO BUFF, AND FLESHY IS A BUFF, DUE TO WEIGHT AND SHIT LIKE THAT. AND THEN THERE'S SOMETIMES MIXED. ONE TYPE WILL RECEIVE THE ARMOR BENEFITS AND THE OTHER THE LAND BENEFITS. WOADS FOR EXAMPLE, WILL GET LAND BENEFITS FOR FLESHY AND ARMOR BENEFITS OF HEAVY. SINCE THEIR SKIN CAN'T BE CUT BUT ITS STILL ESSENTIALLY SKIN.

WEAPON TYPES ARE ONLY GIVEN LAND BUFFS OR DE BUFFS TO THE DEFENDING TEAM. AS YOU CAN SEE THE WEAPONS ALSO BRANCH. THE WEAPONS ON THE RIGHT ARE GIVEN MORE ACCURACY. THE WEAPON TYPES ON THE LEFT MORE DAMAGE BUT LESS ACCURACY. ALSO, THE PLAYER CANNOT SWITCH ARMOR OR WEAPON TYPES OF THE ORIGINAL UNIT UNLESS THEY HAS A SPELL.

NOW, AS YOU CAN SEE WEAPONS ARE PAIRED WITH ARMOR, ITS PRETTY OBVIOUS WHATS EFFECTIVE WHERE, YES? 1.25% ATTACK BONUS TO WEAPON PAIRED WITH ARMOR. NO BUFF FOR THE OTHER TWO.

STATS UP NEXT

>>6462416
>Formations are used by five units: Elephants, Terracotta Warriors, Lorica Faulta, and Man Machines.

I dunno, I think the Christians should get access to formations as well, given how battle hardened they're supposed to be.

>>6462528

I'd say that that works, though, I think Romans should a larger bonus.

>>6462565
romans get a bonus to moving in formation. other units have to spend half the move where as romans only ahve to spent a quarter, or others spent a quarter for thigns romans can do for free

>>6462510
Maybe if your units are in a formation, instead of routing after failing a morale check, they get knocked out of the formation instead of routing or something?

Increased initiative would make sense too, as the whole point of formation is anticipation.

>>6462590
>>6462565
this was the post:

Special Rules
The Roman Legions are vastly different from the numerous other factions. Great hosts of disciplined soldiers is its trademark, drilled to unerring battlefield control and precision. As such, a number of rules affect Roman Legion units differently than those of other factions.

Manueovering & Formations
Wheel
Roman units, when preforming the wheel maneuver, only count half the distance moved when determining the remaining movement it can preform.

Turn
Where other units must spend a quarter of their movement to turn 90 or 180 degrees, Roman units turn at no cost.

Change Formation
Like any other unit, a Roman unit may change its formation by moving models from/to its rear rank or reduce the number of models in its front rank. However, Roman units only surrender a quarter of its movement to move five models, and only half to move 10 models. This also means a Roman unit can move 15 models for three quarters of its movement, or may move up to 20 models if the unit does not otherwise move at all.

Reform
Normally a unit may reform as detailed in the main
rulebook. Roman units follow the same rules with a few key allowances: a Roman unit may still move up to half its normal movement if no single model moved more than it’s normal movement when reforming. If a model moved more than it’s normal movement the unit may not move further in that turn.

Declaring Charges
Roman units that contain models with Pilum may preform a shooting attack before their charge, but only if they are within half their charge range at the start of the turn. Additionally, any unit hit by this attack no longer includes the shield bonus to its armour save.

I LIKE MY STATS NICE AND SIMPLE, LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE

AS STATED EARLIER, THE SECONDARY CAN ONLY BE PAIRED WITH ONE TYPE OF UNIT WITH THE SAME TYPE OF WEAPON TO MAKE THINGS NICE AND SIMPLE. YOU CAN HAVE UP TO FIVE UNIT CHIPS UNDER A SECONDARY AND SEVEN ON A PRIMARY. FOR EACH CHIP THE SECONDARY OR PRIMARY'S STATS ARE INCREASED ACCORDING TO THE UNIT. A TROUP OF THESE ATTACK AS ONE

AS FAR AS STATS, EVEN MORE SIMPLICITY:
HEALTH
ATTACK AND DEFENSE
MAGIC AND DISCIPLINE

TOTAL ATTACK, INCLUDING ALL BUFFS WILL BE SUBTRACTED BY DEFENSE, ALTHOUGH IT CANNOT GO LOWER THAN FIVE. BASE ATTACK WILL SKIP BY 5 TO AVOID BIG BAD MATH. NO RANGED ATTACK OR DEFENSE, WEAPON TYPES COVER THEM. HEALTH IS OBVIOUS. MAGIC AND DISCIPLINE ARE LIKE ATTACK OR DEFENSE BUT WORK WITH SPELLS AND EFFECTS. DISCIPLINE ADDS OR SUBTRACTS TO ANY KIND OF BUFF OR DE BUFF, AND DISCIPLINE ALSO WORKS LIKE DEFENSE AGAINST FIREBALLS AND OTHER MAGIC ATTACKS.

ADDITIONALLY, THERE WILL OF COURSE BE RACE BUFFS, AND UNIT SPECIFIC BUFFS. BUFFS ARE HUEG PART OF STRATEGY.

>>6462590
That's pretty solid, and it makes the Lorica Faulta's mediocre move score not nearly as much of a penalty (which is a good thing).

>>6462565
After dying roughly 30 times I think I'd be a little too batshit for battle formations.

>>6462649

Only 30? Man, you must be real good to have died that few times.

>>6462649
Yeah. I would easily see them trusting more in their enhancements and individual than group discipline.

>>6462611

I disagree with the 'Wheel'. Perhaps Romans get to turn 90* free, but have to use a quarter to move 180*.

>>6462528
>>6462597
combine these too I think, the bonus from ranks increases teir chance of passing a moral check, but if they fail they don't automatically rout, though if attacked when out of formation they will rout as normal.

>>6462687
Agreed. It makes formations a very good idea.

>>6462632
having their base stat be 3 kind of fucks with the halves and quartering. Why not just increase the movement on every model by 1 inch, so huns move 8 and romans move 4. Mounted units move double their base movement speed. Using evens instead of odds makes everything nice and round.

>>6462683

But their primary (well, really only) opponent would be the Romans. So we have to ask ourselves, which would work better when fighting Romans?

>>6462686
wheeling is moving one end of the formation while the other stays still. Turning is moving the whole formation 90 or 180 around a point in the middle.

As for the 90 or 180 thing, in WHFB a formation can turn around 180 degrees for 1 inch of movement, move 2 inches back, then turn 180 around to face forward for the final inch of their movement. Effectively they can move backwards at half their speed.

Romans can move backwards at their full speed.

>>6462711

They get a bonus to formation-cracking. Anyone in formation charged by a Christian unit has to take a roll to see if their formation breaks. It doesn't mean they lose, it means they lose formation bonus.

>>6462680
I'm a little new. But I hope to get to 50 by next month. Then I'll be promoted to member status by the mods.

>>6462734

Oh, ok. I'm more of a 40k guy myself but I get it.

>>6462736

But what's exactly giving them that formation cracking ability?

>>6462530
Many will have weapons restricted from them.

>Huns are gonna be bowmen by default.
Yes. That doesn't mean that they should be entirely helpless in melee - perhaps give them a bonus on ranged attacks, or a melee penalty.
To-hit, I mean.

>Terracotta are mass produced
Sure. Cho-ko-nu, swords, and horses are their only available weapons, perhaps. And their horses are terracotta too, naturally.

>and legionnaires are rather uniform,
So they only get access to swords and short bows and horses. And shields.

>Elephants have tusks and big feet, so they don't really need weapons.
No, but there are people on their backs. It would make sense to give those people bows.

Also, you're forgetting about fodder.

>>6462699
It's not exactly hard to measure out an inch and a half. But for the sake of making math faster, the formation-using factions should have the move of the relevant units be even. So I agree.

With regard to the mounted units, though, I assume you mean the 8 is pre-doubled? Because if not, that's a crazy high move amount.

>>6462755

Searing light. They are surrounded by a halo of light that can disorientate soldiers and force them to fight as individuals, father than a unit.

>>6462510
Wall of Will: The units in formation get a +1 bonus to their Defensive mod and Morale.

Ruthless Efficiency: The units in formation get a +1 to their To Hit mod and Attacks.

A unit with less than 50% of its original numbers cannot hold formation. Units with more than 80% of its original numbers automatically pass any Rout checks.

>>6462756
>Also, you're forgetting about fodder.

They're called fodder for a reason.

I'm not sure it really matters what weapons they're equipped with, when their purpose is mostly to act as meat shields.

>Declaring Charges
>Roman units that contain models with Pilum may preform a shooting attack before their charge, but only if they are within half their charge range at the start of the turn. Additionally, any unit hit by this attack no longer includes the shield bonus to its armour save.

To update that to the settled rules, if a unit that gets a bonus to it's defense roll form having a shield gets hit with this attack, that bonus no longer applies.

>>6462756
If you want to edge the Huns toward being archers, one idea is to just make unique, better bows available.

>>6462774

I'm not sure how well that'd work. When you're in formation you have a pretty good idea of where you, your allies, and the enemy are. That ability seems like it'd damage to-hit moreso than their being in formation.

>>6462784
the mongols and eastern steppe tribes did have way better bows than the romans did. they get +1 to their usual damage done with bows, at least compared to whatever bonus the romans get.

>>6462815

But remember, you're shielding your face and are being beat on by an angry zealot, so it's going to be difficult keeping order.

>>6462528
We don't actually have combat resolution.

>>6462784

I was thinking to just have them be mounted archers by default and require mutations to be bought in order to turn a unit into shock cavalry.

That way they keep their definite bias towards range, while allowing for melee if the situation demands it.

>>6462835

But I still know that Tom is to my left, Dick is to my Right, and Harry is behind me. All I have to do is keep thrusting my sword/spear forward and chances are good that I'll hit something.

>>6462840

Then we should work on combat resolution. I think it should work in evens. Heavy armour will mean that to wound them you need a 6, Light armour, 4/6, Cloth armour, 2/4/6, no armour, any even number. Woaden always count as wearing light armour, as do Romans.

>>6462870

You're more 'swinging' your weapon, seeing as you don't know who's in front of you, so guess a combat resolution penalty would be better.

>>6462889
What?
...It occurs to me that you said you were a 40k fag, and 40k doesn't have combat resolution either.

Combat resolution is something in WHFB where you determine which side "won" the melee.

>>6462945

Sorry, I thought you meant determining hits.

...

I should probably stick with faction specific rules, or just piss off, right?

>>6462840
then how do you know who wins combat and when a unit breaks?

It's very simple. for every wound inflicted the unit gets +1 to their combat score. other things like formation bonuses add to the final score. Who ever has more wins the combat and the the loser has to take a morale test(unless they are immune to fear/morale). If they lose they break/flee. If they win they stay in combat for another round.

>>6462945
40k has the same thing almost.

>>6462889
We already have a hit system in place.

>>6462945
it does. whoever did more wounds won. the loser tests leadership, and falls back if they fail.

>>6462921
>You're more 'swinging' your weapon,

With the Roman military it'd be thrusting. Shield is held firm and the gladius is thrust forward in a stabbing motion that allows them to pierce through chainmail.

>seeing as you don't know who's in front of you,

I don't need to see who's in front of me, because I've been disciplined from the start to stay in formation and to keep on stabbing. As long as I stay in formation, I'm good to go.

>>6462971
Nah, your input is appreciated and all. You might be well served by having a .pdf of WHFB on hand though.

>>6462991
It has a different name, though.

>>6462996

It's really difficult to remember training in a fight when you're effectively blind, surrounded by immortal fanatics and unsure wether Tom, Dick and Harry are still alive.

i'm just gonna say that you should take lorica faulta out of the tertiary position and put it into secondar, they'd be a bit weaker than the man-machines but they would have more customization ability, make the tertiary romans in power armor.

i'm just gonna say that you should take lorica faulta out of the tertiary position and put it into secondary, they'd be a bit weaker than the man-machines but they would have more customization ability, make the tertiary romans in power armor.

>>6463053

Man Machines would probably have just as much customization as the Lorica Faulta. Possibly even more due to their divinely inspired nature.

>>6463053
ok heres another idea, make lorica faulta the secendary, i mean humans wouldn't be too tech savvy even with the divineness on their side so they wouldn't be perfect so yeah, whatever.

>>6463114
you're forgetting that below tertiary there's the fodder, aka quaternary. These are normal, non-enhanced/augmented humans.

>>6463114
That's what >>6463053 just said. I like LF as tertiary, personally.

>>6463048
>make the tertiary romans in power armor.
THAT'S WHAT LORICA FAULTA IS

>>6463159
Times like these are when I really appreciate the value of the wiki. So many questions would be answered with that.

>>6463170

To be fair, the wiki is currently down.

>>6463114
Lorica Faulta is power armor made from parts of Man Machines that didn't work out. There's a high rate of failure on Man Machines, but they generally have many usable parts remaining.

>>6463185
Exactly. If it was up I would just tell him to read the damn wiki.

>>6463151
already understood
>>6463153
i was samefagging
>>6463170
oh, so they changed the wiki? lurking nao

also if the lorica faulta we're developed to be powerarmor and not just failed man-machines then should they really be considered failed?

Archive this thread, we got some shit done today.

>>6463219
Wiki's down, like he said, or else I would tell you to.

>>6463231
Someone was way ahead of you, it was archived when I got back today at ~5EST.

>>6463219
That's the deal. They are failed man machines. It's just there was enough failed parts to make them into smaller power armor.

>>6463265

Good stuff, when 1d4chan goes up again we'll need to add this to it.

>>6463280
oh, alright i understand now, hope the wiki comes back soon i need to do some reading on the new fluff.

So how should the Christians' resurrection ability work?

>>6463411
How about a quarter chance of rezzing with +1 to all stats?

>>6463411
>>6463487

Christians take three days to rez. It's a fluff aspect, not a battle one.

>>6463487
Sounds like a good train of thought. Maybe they roll a d10, 8-9 resurrects, 10 resurrects and buffs?

One thing we should do is to put a delay on the resurrection (so they don't just pop up like a whack-a-mole game, and so that dying is actually an inconvenience)

>>6463500
Makes sense. In that case, what special abilities should the enhancements give?

>>6463527
>>6463536
Most battles don't last three days, guys.

>>6463569
Yeah, I know, I got the point. Thus, I asked what specials they should get instead.

>>6463536
Those ones on the last thread seemed okay....

>>6463624
Yeah, sorry, I went to sleep before that and missed it. Arms as Lightning and Sinews of Steel look pretty legit.

As expected, Modun had become a proud warrior. He had fought many times against both the Chinese and the Romans, and they had been forced to reconcile with his formidable strength. In addition to being a skilled warrior, he was gifted with the truesight of a shaman - he could see beyond the flesh, into the souls of their spirit-kin.

Of course, not everyone could appreciate his mysticism or his strength. Especially his third wife, Xiuxiu. She had been given to him as a gift from a nearby province that had recently sworn fealty to the Huns, and neither Modun nor Xiuxiu had been particularly happy with the arrangement. Modun because he had wanted to go to battle against them, and Xiuxiu because she found her new husband to be disgusting. Though, perhaps more accurately, she found his spirit-kin disgusting. The way the mass of flesh moved around his bodied and writhed just beneath his skin was something that deeply disturbed her.

But, it was her duty. Not that she had the luxury of objecting anyway. At her young age, all Xiuxiu could do was to took comfort that her womb bought the lives of her people. So, there she lay, naked on the bed of a tribal warrior, waiting for him to consummate the contract between their peoples. Her mind wandered to the two wives that came before her; she had yet to meet either of them, and the girl idly wondered if they would get along.

The door opened and she saw her new husband. Just as before, during the negotiations that sold her away, she could see that thing moving underneath the skin of his arms and neck. An unsettling bulge lay under his leather chestpiece, and she shuddered inwardly at how it would feel against her own body. She sat up, pulling her legs up to her chest and wrapping her arms around them uneasily. Now that he was here, she felt much more anxious.

>>6463712

He didn't look at her though. From what she could tell, he didn't even notice her existence, and, worst of all, she wasn't sure if that was a good thing or a bad thing. She could see him muttering something under his breath - was he displeased by her appearance? Or maybe he was just unused to politics and courtly behavior; she had thought his home was remarkably simple for a man so high up in the world.

Suddenly he burst out laughing, while he started to strip his clothing away. It was as though someone told a joke only he could hear. Then she saw it. For the first time, she was able to see clearly that thing attached to his body.

Circling around his chest and back, as well as running up into his arms and legs was a moving mass of flesh. The skin over it was stretched taut, and she could see how Modun's skin hung slightly loose where the bulge wasn't present. She clenched her eyes shut and buried her face in her knees. "I don't want to be hear," she said quietly to herself.

She felt the bed shift. "Me neither."

She looked up to see Modun sitting next to her.

"I'd rather be atop my horse, bow in hand, leading an attack on some city or fort." He looked up and down her body. "You don't have lotus feet."

"The practice only recently started in my province... do you disapprove?"

>>6463721

Modun shrugged. "I don't particularly care. It's just that the other Chinese wife has them."

"Oh... how is she?"

He shrugged again. "I don't talk with her. She belongs to Yuoh moreso than to me, anyway." Modun saw the confusion written across Xiuxiu's face and sighed. "Yuoh is my companion, a spirit-kin."

"I... I belong to you, right?" Xiuxiu asked, hoping she wouldn't have to bring pleasure to the growth that writhed under Modun's skin.

"Yes. I'd have let Yuoh have you, but she said your breasts are too small and your body is too frail. She said she'd break you if without trying. I wouldn't care, but Yuoh said it might lead to an unnecessary confrontation."

Xiuxiu blanched at the thought.

"Anyway, goodnight. I'm going to sleep." With that Modun lay down and turned away from her.

"Err... it's our marriage night. Aren't you going to ... erm..."

"I'll do it tomorrow. Now be quiet."

Suddenly Xiuxiu heard another voice, or, at least, she thought it was a voice. The sound was harsh and made her cringe while covering her ears. She saw an eye open in Modun's back, it's cyclopean gaze fixed on her pained expression.

Sleep did not come easy for Xiuxiu that night.

>>6463740
>She said she'd break you if without trying.

Err... remove the "if"

>>6463740

When is this guy gonna get it on with his spirit kin? I know that's where it's going, I just want some warning.

>>6463816
Whoever said he hasn't yet?

>>6463828

I know, but he needs to be MORE GRAPHIC! If he's going to bone a ghost, I want to know the motherfucking details!

>>6463847
>If he's going to bone a SAN check made incarnate

Fixed.

>>6463816

Well, technically, the first story with him ends with spirit-kin sex/merging (it's posted in thread 3)

But, don't worry, if I write fapfic for Modun, it'll be from his perspective of seeing Yuoh as human.

>>6463855

Even better! As long as it can look vaguely (VERY vaguely) pseudo-human I can fap to it, and probably enjoy it.

>>6463870
>seeing Yuoh as human.
You do realize that's not supposed to be literal, right? They don't find the spiritkin to be unpleasant, while others find them inherently repulsive. They still have the same appearance, it's just the subjective opinion of that appearance which differs.

>>6463870

Though, while Modun and the reader will see Yuoh as human, the wife won't. Which will make for some interesting interpretations of what exactly is REALLY happening.

>>6463870
You'd ignore the potential this story has?

>>6463919

It's a spiritual thing.

Most people see an eldritch horror and hear nails being drawn across a chalkboard. Huns that are spiritually gifted see past the physical confines of the spirit-kin and are able to see the soul (thus perceiving the spirit-kin more favorably). In reality, the spirit-kin's form doesn't actually change, just the way it's seen by a few key people.

>>6463961
He's still aware of her various... tentacles, and whatnot.

>>6463935

Well, if you really want tentacle rape...

I just figured that most of /tg/ would appreciate not seeing beyond the veil.

>>6463927
This is probably the best way to do it.

>>6464015

Yeah, but Modun wouldn't view what's real as all that important. The sacred form of the spirit-kin trumps the profane form... at least, for him. For anyone else involved, it'd probably be the other way around, resulting in a lot of screaming and tears.

>>6463961

The spirit kin aren't inherently evil, are they, seeing as Huns see their souls and don't die of fear.

>>6464088
>The spirit kin aren't inherently evil, are they,

Spirit-kin are certainly different, but whether or not they're inherently evil is up for debate / unknown.

>seeing as Huns see their souls and don't die of fear.

Well, only some Huns see spirit-kin that way, and for all we know it's just a deception used to lull the Huns into a false sense of security. We don't know that it's really what their souls look like, just that that's what the Huns think.

>>6464055
I never thought huns would be so nice. What a crazy world we've created...

>>6464122

Well, they're willing to die for Atilla, fighting mechanical monstrosites and Avatars of Yaweh himself, so you'd think that they were pretty cool guys.

>>6464142

They aren't that nice. They fight pretty much solely for the purpose of fighting. They have a habit of feeding conquered people to the spirit-kin, and letting them forcefully merge with others. They might be relatively nice to each other, but they have a well-deserved reputation abroad for being murderous and unstable.

>>6464168
>Well, they're willing to die for Atilla,

I don't think it's clear who exactly is dying for whom.

While it could be that the spirit-kin are relatively benevolent guardian spirits for the Huns, it could easily be the case that the spirit-kin are using the Huns as tools to accomplish some inscrutable goal.

>>6464200

Well, every faction is going to do bad shit to their prisoners.

Celts=Sacrifice!
Chinese=God knows but I bet is icky
Romans=Crucified
Christians=Burned alive.

I think being raped to death by Cthullu is a pretty good deal, considering the other options.

>>6464229

Perhaps the spirit kin just have 'normal' goals, and aren't as eldricht and weird as people would think, and find it hilarious that the Huns revere them.

>>6464229
How about getting fed? On their own, the Spirit-kin wouldn't get much, but symbiotically linked with a people who are more than willing to mow down everything in their path, they're fat and happy.

>I think being raped to death by Cthullu is a pretty good deal

Actually one of the ideas I had for Modun-related writefaggotry involved that with his second wife.

Yuoh starts talking to the captured woman, acting very kind and understanding. The woman, only hearing horrific gibberish and seeing a moving mass of flesh attached to a man who's apathetically staring at a wall strikes Yuoh in fear. Yuoh does a complete 180, and gets extremely pissed at the woman and decides to brutally rape her. In the end the woman is left an empty shell, incapable of caring for herself. Add in the implication that broken woman is pregnant with some unspeakable monstrosity.

I'm not sure it's that good of a deal.

>>6464305

Bro, co-operation seems to make things more pleasant, and to be honest, I'd be happy to oblige. You're going to get raped by Cthullu, you're not going to struggle.

>>6464331
>You're going to get raped by Cthullu, you're not going to struggle.

Well, I don't think people are gonna be that rational when faced with the prospect of being tentacle raped.

That and cooperating doesn't make for as fun of a read.

>>6464266
>>6464271

It's certainly possible.

They could be good, bad, or something in between. We don't really know at this point (and I'd say that we shouldn't ever know).

>>6464331


>Well, I don't think people are gonna be that
rational when faced with the prospect of being tentacle raped

Depends on wether you're a male or not. Unless it gets kicks from buttrape, it'd be like screwing a bag of warm mince, and trust me, that's not as bad as it sounds.

>>6464427
>Depends on wether you're a male or not.

9 out of 10 tentacle rape victims are female (or, at least, futa).

>>6464446

Well then, sucks to be them, but the point still stands, even if it is a horrible monster, it's something to stick your cock in.

Lion'el Richie, signing out (i need sleep).

Has it finally lost momentum after 70ish hours straight?

>>6464887
No we're fluffing right now.

>>6464887
We have stats for all the tertiaries above. We've definitely achieved progress in this thread. We just need to keep moving on mechanics, that's all.

>>6465008
Whats next then?
Personally I'd do the fodder next get them out of the way.
For fodder I think we should standardise them across all the factions with the base options of sword and shield standard. upgradable too, cavalry or archers (huns can do both) pikes for tackling larger things (or lances for cavalry). Only give the roman, chinese or Indian fodder the ability to use formations, maybe christian.
I'm not sure about stats though.

>>6464887
1d4chan's downtime is putting a bit of a damper on things. Momentum remains, though, which is why we still have posts and shit. Just, you know, pertaining to tentacle rape instead of crunch.

I guess it's time to start on the Secondaries, then.

Movement: Siddhi Monks > Spirit Kin > Man Machines = Taken Machines > Ascendants > Jade Wagons
Monks go fast because they aren't restricted by armor, and moving fast is one of the Siddhi things IIRC. Nothing in particular stands out about the spirit kin as far as being fast, but I think it fits with the general theme of the Huns having a focus on hit and run tactics. Ascendants are slow to balance their being badass angel things. Jade Wagons are slow because they're artillery.

Wounds: I'd say 1 for the monks and wagons, 2 for the others. Maybe 3 for the Ascendant.
Wagons get only one wound to reinforce the idea that they're artillery and should stay back out of the way. The monks I presume will get a defensive bonus, so they won't need extra wounds. The Ascendant could get three depending on just how tough we want him to be, though it'll depend on what other defensive things we give him.

Initiative: Monks > Spirit Kin = Ascendants > Man Machines > Taken Machines > Jade Wagons
Monks have fast reflexes and are unrestricted by armor. Spirit kin and Ascendants come next due to their supernatural nature. Man Machines get a higher init than taken machines to reflect the fact that the Romans are better trained in their use and are able to perform better maintenance. Jade Wagons get poor init because as an artillery piece, it's kinda useless for them.

>>6465310

Morale: Ascendants > Monks > Man Machines > Taken Machines > Jade Wagons
Ascendants get to be highest on morale because they are the physical embodiment of the a Christian's faith. Monks get good morale to reflect their calm demeanor and discipline gained through mediation. Man Machines get better morale than Taken machines to reflect better training on the part of Roman pilots. Jade Wagons get poor init since people manning a cannon aren't going to be expected to actually fight personally.

I'm not sure where to put Spirit Kin for morale. Part of me thinks they should be relatively high, because they are eldritch horrors from beyond the veil. However, there's also the aspect that they're somewhat out of their element on this world.

>>6465203

I think fodder should be handled last, since the focus is going to be on the other units, and the fodder are ... well, exactly as their named. Fodder.

>>6464887

We've lost some momentum, but I think part of that can be attributed to the fact that we're doing more crunch than fluff.

But, nonetheless, progress is still being made.

>>6465203
I'm not sure where to go with fodder. I believe we agreed to make them available in swarms at tertiary-level (10 count as 1 tertiary unit, something like that), but the question is what stats/rules to use.

I would say initially that, as mentioned before, a group of 10 would count as 1 tertiary with low stats. Something like:

Fodder (10): M3 W1 L4 I3 S1

Every 10 fodder would add 1 W to each group. So a swarm of 30 fodder would each be:

M3 W3 L4 I3 S1

Fodder have to take morale checks after losing 1/4 of the swarm.

>>6465203
I agree with generalization of fodder. Maybe just a flat value for basic troops, advanced troops and etc. with special variables that can be purchased depending on faction. Huns could buy horses for their fodder for example, Christians could buy the ability to make formations, different weapon choices and such

>>6465317
For the Spirit-kin: Morale on the same level as taken machines. Given that they have two wounds, high init, and high move, they need a semi-weak point.

I propose Taken Machines be renamed to Bronze Boars to fit with the Celtic theme.

>>6465503
I can see that. The heads of the bronze machines get altered slightly to look like boars, hence the name.

>>6465503
Given that they are neither boar-shaped, nor necessarily bronze... I disagree.

>>6465364
Also: 1 damage dealt to a group of 10 would cause the corresponding proportional amount of loss of life, rounded as befits the decimal; the number left would be recalculated as an aggregate to determine the number of maximum wounds each group in the swarm has (0 to 10 = 1, 11 to 20 = 2, etc).

So in the example given before of a swarm of 30, each group initially starts with W3. If one group takes 2 damage and a second group takes 2 damage, that takes out 7 from the first group and 7 from the second group(6.66 rounded up). This puts the total at 30 - 7 - 7 = 30 - 14 = 16. Since this is between 11 and 20, each group now has W2 maximum (including the group that was not hit).

>>6465663
It's a matter of how you present it. See >>6465646

>>6465503
Perhaps a hero version of the taken machines?

>>6465899
Or just an alternate option. Give them some sort of special charge attack or something.

>>6465310
>Ascendants are slow to balance their being badass angel things.
I disagree. Not from a gamist point of view, merely because it makes no sense fluff-wise.

>Monks go fast because they aren't restricted by armor,
They're also the only size 1 secondary, though.
>and moving fast is one of the Siddhi things IIRC.
That would only apply to monks with that particular Siddhi. It shouldn't be factored in at the base level.

>Wagons get only one wound to reinforce the idea that they're artillery and should stay back out of the way.
The idea, originally at least, wasn't that they're artillery, but rather that they're tanks.

>The Ascendant could get three depending on just how tough we want him to be, though it'll depend on what other defensive things we give him.
Giving the Ascendant low health was the main thing we talked about yesterday to balance it. It deals with the specific issue - due to his special rules he's likely to have plenty of health later in the game - and it makes fluff sense because they've just transformed, and their new forms are not yet steady.

>>6465969
So what would you suggest instead for the priorities?

That reminds me, what are we going to be doing about siege weapons if anything?

>>6465310
>>6465969
I'd say make the base wounds for secondary units 3, with the weaker things having 2, otherwise you end up with some secondaries that have less wounds than a tertiary

Um... regarding the Spirit Kin.. Weren't they supposed to be unable to exist properly in this world for long? Like, that's why they normally bonded?

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>>6466035
It takes 5 damage in a turn for a tertiary to deal one wound...

>>6466040
I think, like the Christian's ressurection, the fading of the Spirit-Kin takes long enough that we don't represent it in game.

>>6466040
Yeah, but how would we represent that?

>>6466074
Well, we could give them hella wounds - like, six, with options to increase - and say they take one wound at the end of each turn.

>>6466062
oh yes I forget that, disregard >>6466035 please

>>6466073
Yeah, they're assumed to be present enough for the sake of the battle. Think of the start of the battle as when they're unleashed, so to speak.

>>6466062
Quite. That's the main reason why it can start at 1 and be average 2.

>>6466100
>like, six, with options to increase

Holy shit, why wouldn't you take that unit? Especially if it has good move, just use it to rush. It would take out like fucking everything worth mentioning, wounds be damned.

>>6465663
Just because they are named something does not mean they have to LOOK like it. Bronze Boars rolls off the tongue a hell of a lot easier than Taken Machines

>>6466153
It can only do so much in a couple of turns, wounds taken over turns stack with wounds in combat, etc. It would be better on a smaller map, of course.

But yes, it should be fairly expensive.

>>6466218
I guess it's a possibility, but personally I'm not a fan. I think it opens up too many things waiting to be exploited.

I'll wait for the consensus, though.

>>6466326
I agree, I partial to he assumption in >>6466073
don't give them a huge number of wounds and then their own rules for loosing them, if they games ending been several turns it cripples them from about turn 4 onwards. Just stick with them having 2 or 3 wounds like other secondaries.

>>6466326 again.
Also, it goes counter to the Huns' MO so far. Hit-and-run doesn't go very far if you lose half your dudes after a few turns.

>>6466326
>>6466218
having it take wounds every turn is baaad.

Have it so you roll a d10, on a 1-8(or 1-9) it can act as normal, on a 9 and 10(or just 10) it can not move or take any action.

In the morning, I'm going to try my hand at sculpting some of these units.
Any preference on what you guys want to see? What scale you want them at? Any suggestions are welcome.

>>6466395
That MO only applies to the tertiaries though. When we were first working on them, we talked about the Primaries being slow but devastating, and having morale effects.

The Spirit Kin we didn't really talk about in much depth, but from what we did talk about, I, at least, pictured them as CHARGE-RIPTEAR-DIE type of units, oriented towards keeping melee guys off of the archers and biting a chunk out of the enemy before getting killed relatively early.

>>6466451
for scale the general consensus seems to be 15mm, personally I'm gonna put my hand to a Roman Man-machine later on when I've finished the 40k squad I'm painting

>>6466451
I don't remember exactly what the final decision was, but some people in the last thread were talking about scale.

Some Lorica Faulta, Man Machines, or God Machines at the least would be pretty kickass. This was originally started with those in mind, after all.

>>6466468
Fair enough, I suppose. I mostly just don't like the idea of forcing pacing on a player.

>>6466451
We decided on 15mm.
I'd like to see some angels, personally, but whatever you feel like making.

>>6466516
That's why I suggested options to increase wounds. 6W seems to be too high though, according to people. Should we tone it down to four, as default?

>>6466546
I am the person who originally bitched about the number...now that I think about it, I personally don't like the idea in general, regardless of the number of wounds. If we ended up doing it, though, 5 as a default would be OK.

Personally, I'd rather them have some sort of ability like having the option to possess upon rout, destroying a number of Spirit-Kin but gaining control of that many of the opponent.

>>6466665
when the spirit-kin causes a rout in the defender?
if so that sounds pretty good, maybe limit it to other secondaries and tertiaries though

>>6466759
nononono, that would fuck so much with unit cohesion and models being in base contact for close combat only.

Plus your giving ownership of your models to some one else. No one wants that.

Putting the argument about the Spirit Kin's wounds aside for right now, the general priorities for secondary units so far, based on:

>>6465310
>>6465317

and augmented by

>>6465969

Move: Spirit Kin > Ascendants > Siddhi Monks > Man Machines = Taken Machines > Jade Wagons
>tier changes: Ascendants have good move

Wounds: Man Machine = Taken Machine = Wagons > Monks and Ascendants (Spirit Kin is undecided)
>changes: Ascendants put low as discussed, Wagons raised to the level of the other mechanicals

Initiative: Monks > Spirit Kin = Ascendants > Man Machines > Taken Machines > Jade Wagons
>no changes made

Morale: Ascendants > Monks > Man Machines > Jade Wagons > Taken Machines = Spirit Kin
>changes: Added Spirit Kin to the same level as Taken Machines. Moved Jade Wagons above Taken Machines.

I figure that people who want artillery Wagons can take a kit that gives Jade Wagons a kickass ranged attack, but penalties to W/L.

>>6466759
Yeah, I wouldn't want them stealing primaries.

>>6466778
>models being in base contact for close combat only

Not sure what you mean by this. If the group routs, the ones that aren't possessed are going to be gone anyway, so there won't be any real awkwardness in the sense of two enemies not currently meleeing being in base contact.

With regards to your other point, that's a fair issue. Maybe keep them alive under possession for only one round or something? That way it's still a fair amount of disruption, but you don't have so much of an issue about controlling the other guy's dudes.

>>6466979
Make the possesion a varient ability and add a clause saying that all players must agree to their use

>>6467007
I'm cool with that.

>>6466878
Spirit Kin: 10M ?W 6I 4L S2
Siddhi: 8M 1W 7I 7L S1
Taken Weapons: 7M 2W 4I 4L S2
Man Machines: 7M 2W 5I 6L S2
Jade Wagons: 6M 2W 3I 5L S3
Ascendants: 9M 1W 6I 8L S3

Seems like people don't like the decreasing health idea. This saddens me, since I thought it was awesome, but as the major proponent of it, I'm cool with just cutting it out. Do we want to give them one or two wounds, then? I'd say one.

>>6467146
If they are melee focused, I'd say two.

>>6467146
Looking at the stats here (>>6467110), they do seem to need a slight toning-back, but they need something small in return to make it more even (1W is a huge deal). I'd suggest raising L by 1 and lowering W to 1, thus making it:

10M 1W 6I 5L S2

That way they have 1 mediocre (L) and 1 sub-par (W) defense, capturing that not-very-resilient feel.

With regards to the other posted stats, it looks good. The only real change I'd make is bumping Jade Wagons' I up one.

>>6467260
They're melee-focused, but the idea is that they're mostly supposed to be shock troops and disruption. CHARGE-RIPTEAR-DIE, indeed.

>>6467301 again.
Alternatively, we could keep them at 2W, but have them count as 1 size less for the purpose of taking damage.

>>6467301
agreed
>The only real change I'd make is bumping Jade Wagons' I up one.
Remember the Jade wagons are basically tanks, they should be acting fairly slow in melee. They're gonna have a powerful ranged attack (maybe the only ranged secondary even), so we need to balance things out.

>>6467404
That actually makes sense. Keep it as-is, then, no objections.

>>6467301
They're the one it makes sense to have a really low L for, though. But sure.

>>6467451
It is true, but 5L is pretty balls as it is. A 50% chance to rout when a lot of the unit is destroyed (which happens much faster thanks to 1W) means they're definitely not sticking around, lowering that to 40% would just make them painful to use.

>>6467497 again.
Alternatively, we can do >>6467378 this, which would balance it out enough to warrant keeping L at 4.

>>6467497
balance with a lower points cost?

>>6467523
Point taken. Keep L at 4.

This thread is autosaging. New thread time.

>>6467566