rolled 1 = 1The Karban train always arrives on time.
>>20218233So what did the other letters said?
rolled 6, 5, 5, 3, 4, 6 = 29>>20218233KARBAN FUCK YEAH!
>>20218280Bank this.Quick find something we would need to spend a 6d6 on, fools!Negotiating with lady Jayne perhaps
>>20218265They were from Caswell and Rory Wallgrave, just a status update on the Islands and saying that they'd like some food sent to make sure they had adequate stores as a cushion just in case.
>Princely come back,>You can blame it all>on>me>>20218233
>>20218265Those were the three letters.You take the letters into consideration, and make sure to set Coyle to the task. He has as fine a head for numbers as anyone, and he should be able to figure out just how much should be set aside. Aside from all the harvest, you have extensive stockpiles tucked away in Castle Salt. Enough to last all of the winter? Perhaps not quite, so you should make mention to increase the holdings, just to be safe.>Anything to do?
>>20218348Practice for the joust my good man
>>20218348Visit Lady Jeyne, get her final answer on the deal we proposed. Maybe we'll even get some loving from her afterwards.
>>20218348Check on the clothing maker, how long until our commission is done?
>>20218348Remind me, do our holdings in the Arbor isles possess a Marketplace? I remember we wanted a Fisherman's Wharf, so if we have one there, we may want to start construction.Unless my fellows think we should wait to have a buffer.
>>20218394Wait until after next month, we want a buffer. We might also want to try to divert our Architect to Clawwater islands before he gets here so we can get his bonus building the wharf.
>>20218403Actually, thinking about that buffer, what if we used those emeralds Montelban paid us with?
>>20218425Oh yeah, those ought to be worth a fair bit of wealth.Start looking into proper avenues to sell them for maximum value. It might be best to keep them around until we get a jeweler to make best use of them, and if we do sell them keep a good number of them because they're pretty.
>>20218403What? No! We need the Architect here to improve and speed up our castle and lavish sept. We don't need an Architect to build the wharf. He could be take offence at once if he do sent him for that.
>>20218453Princely already said his benefits wouldn't work on anything currently being built.
>>20218370We are always doing that these days, unless business stops us from such things. Besides, our knights and us really benefit from the practice.>>20218378You head towards Lady Jeyne, eager to conclude your offer to her. You take a half-dozen of the Steel Guard, robed in old brown as to avoid drawing attention. You slip into the taproom with only the smallest modicum of effort. A serving girl ushers you upstairs when you flash a small bit of gold, and you again find yourself in the small, dark room. Jeyne is sitting in a high backed chair, reading a tiny, slim book.>Wat say?
>>20218453He doesn't have any mechanical impact on the Sept and Castle. I think it's more along the lines that we have him take a trip out there, draw up all the plans and then he can probably bugger off back home.
>>20218459>>20218464You sure about that? I was hoping to make then more “showy”.
>>20218462It is absolutely lovely to see you again Lady Jeyne. May I ask what you're reading?So have you given any further thought to the offer I made when last we spoke?
She holds up the book so we can see the cover: Red leather, well worn. "It is a book of poetry from the Reach... It is nearly fifty years old. My mother says that my father gave it to her, when he learned about me. She said it was all he gave her before he sent her away besides a purse of silver stags and a warning that if he was ever to see me again, he would have us both hanged... I know that is probably not as romantic as you first thought it was going to be, that is the truth of it, my lord." She turns to her right, and motions to some chairs and a small table with a few scattered glasses on it."I assume you came to finalize our arraignment? I thought you might... I am rather concerned about just how much you think your gold has bought, my lord. What is it you will be expecting of me?"
>>20218557For the gold? Your services. How about my gracious demeanour and friendly approach? Or should I bank on my rugged good looks? Would that get me some loyalty?We are both Bastards. How about we stick together. Perhaps a function in the court down the line, if you are up for it and we seem to be able to thrust and work well together, just enough to spite your father should you meet again. I am certain you can throw a mean party.
>>20218557Information mainly. Investigation done where I need it to be, you to keep an eye out for any threats to myself or my position, access to your network through you. I would also like for it to be expanded if possible, I can help provide resources for this but I would rather our arrangement not be public knowledge for obvious reasons.The most important thing I ask for would be loyalty, should someone come seeking information on myself or of the sort that would cause harm to me I would have you feign ignorance or to provide them with a half-truth or a lie set up to appear true and throw them on the wrong path. You already know that I reward loyalty generously and with loyalty of my own. I take very good care of my own. I will do my level best to keep you safe from any threats.And I'm sorry to hear about your father, I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.
>>20218387Yes, the Karban colour panties. We never forget them panties.Oh well I am certain they will be finished and very sexy, entertaining and easy to wear, should we gift them to Dalyna on a good ocasion.
>>20218595We want to keep the both of us separated as far as the public eye is concerned. We don't want people knowing we have a spy network and that they can no longer rely on Lady Jeyne as she reports to us. That lessens her usefulness. Also we're not a bastard, we're the second son of a noble family.
She smiles a bit, and tucks the book behind her. "Our agreement will be thus: You shall pay me as you always have. It will be fifty dragons a month, with silver to be paid as well if I /really/ have to exert some effort. For that coin, I will keep listening for you, and I will let you know what I hear. My girls can hear the strangest things, I have been told, and I am sure you could find something of value in it all... If anyone is asking about you, you had better have enough gold in that big castle of yours to be able to provide a better price. If you cannot, I think I will be forced to tell them all that my girls heard. After all, I am not a mule to be purchased... But that does not mean I will betray you. Your gold buys both my whispers and my silence."She wiggles her finger at the Steel Guard behind you. "I do not desire to be one of those... I am a woman, free and clear of your /lordly/ entanglements, and I mean to keep it that way."
>>20218665Knew we couldn't buy loyalty
>>20218665Independent and professional? A respectable choice.Now out of curiosity, if someone -were- to ask about me, what would you tell them, and how much would it cost?And with the 'better price' am I given to understand that you would alert me should someone make an inquiry?
>>20218665I'll note that every single one of the Steel Guard follows me of their own free will not only out of loyalty but also friendship, but I digress.It seems we have come to an accord, there is no lack of gold in my vaults so you need not worry. I have a mind to know you better given that we're going to be working together. For your story I can pay my own and even tell you the identity of the second Cargill daughter's secret paramour.
>>20218729She nods at that. "I would not sell the secrets of my... friend so easily. Your gold spends as good as theirs, but I think your gold might just be the safer currency. However, do not confuse such kindness for charity. I expect to be well compensated for my labors, my dear lord.">anything else to ask?
>>20218733Lets not put ser Crane in danger prematurely.How about a story of our own. Less known by others. Something personal too.
>>20218757Given that the marriage is in the works it's not a big deal to let her know, but we could keep it under our hat for now, though it's going to get to her soon enough.
>>20218772Wait, I forget, was Ser Crane already approved to marry her?
>>20218722She's a spy. If she would've been raised to the position and groomed by us then yes she'd be loyal. But a self made spy is one that you can never trust, no matter how much gold you throw at them.
>>20218805Not yet that we know of
>>20218748So is it against her policy to tell her client what the rumors are surrounding himself?Or even with this Clawwater visit, are we still so new that no rumors/secrets have had a chance to form?
>>20218817Well then talking about the wedding or even Crane courting Veronica's younger sister would be all kinds of presumptuous on our part.
>>20218824Nope. She will report on anything for gold... Especially now.>>20218832>>20218772>>20218757>>20218805It would be best not to let rumors of Ser Crane's intentions reach Lord Cargill before Ser Crane's intentions do. While it wouldn't be the end of the world, it is definitely not an amazing first start.>Anything else to ask?
>>20218852Ask about her personal history, we know little of her and we're going to be working together. Tell stories of our own life as payment for this.Get some drinks into the both of us and ask who her father is but don't pry or pressure her on that count.
>>20218852Say >>20218733 but leave out the part about the Cargill's daughters paramour.
>>20218852Well then ask if she's heard anything about us that she thinks someone else would pay good money to hear.And y'know, what those things would be.
>>20218888"No, my lord. I haven't heard any rumors about you, besides what is already well known across the Arbor. You are ambitious, and dangerous to face on the field of battle. You are a man who can magic gold out of the air, but who's expenses always seem to match his incomes. And you are unmarried... An unmarried lord, such a rare commodity in the Reach." As you lean back in your chair, she speaks again. "I promised to tell my good lord if people came about, looking for whispers as to him and his. I will let you know, my lord. My girls can find the way to your castle as easy as any fool."Nodding to the agreement, you stand and pull on your heavy gloves. "This is a fair compact, and I will keep to it... I would suggest you do the same. Your girls and the whispers you hear depend upon the leniency of the watch. /My/ leniency. Keep the faith with me, and I will make you rich. Betray my trust, and your head can decorate the gate of my keep." She just nods at that, the steel in your voice robbing her of the upper hand she thought she was enjoying.... It is an even playing field, and you want her to know that she has no weak spot in your defenses to find.
Anything else to ask?
>>20218975No, lets leave.
>>20218975Ask about herself, her history, how she came to get such an intelligence network, who her father is. I like knowing who we're working with.
>>20218985She doesn't have to tell us any of that, we're paying for her cooperation, not her background and the details of her entire operation. Assuming we get that that much information is rude and should have been stated from the beginning as a contract.
>>20218995I'm not saying pry, but we may as well see what she is willing to share about herself.
>>20218950 CONTYou smile back at her as you leave the small room. "Don't worry, my lady. No ill will shall ever be directed upon you as long as our... agreement stays firmly in place. In the meantime, I will have my maester find that book of poems that has been collecting dust on my library walls. Perhaps it will amuse you more than I?" You close the door and slip out towards the river, cutting through alleys and crowds.You head back up towards the castle, the rowboat carrying you past rather heavy traffic on the river today. Slipping through the river gate, you shrug out of the cloak and say a quick, silent prayer to the Mother. You hope Jeyne is as smart as she looks, and that she won't try to blackmail or betray you... You like the girl, after all. It would be a shame to come into conflict.>Roll 1d100 for the weather and 1d7
>>20218950Done. Now lets get on with it. And while we are at it, why not indulge in the grubby side of Saltmouth, and see for ourselves how people fare and what is what. Perhaps discharge some tension with a girl and no strings afterwards.Who knows what we might hear.
rolled 26 = 26>>20219020It would be a shame if she betrayed us, both for us and her. We'd be mildly peeved and she'd be dead.
rolled 96 = 96>>20219020Lets see how winter is coming along
rolled 3 = 3>>20219020
The weather is definately taking a turn towards autumn now. It is raining more often than not... Usually a slow, steady, heavy drizzle that will slowly soak you to the bone if you don't shake out your cloak. The sky is always overcast, and even when it is not there is a definite grey cast to the sky. You hear rumors that the farmers upriver are predicting a bumper crop, as long as the drizzles don't turn to honest rain and wash away their hard work.It has been two weeks since Jeyne and you agreed to your partnership, and it has been an arduous two weeks. Construction proceeds apace for the storehouses, and they should be done with nearly a month or two to spare. Their fat, round shapes can be glimpsed of the northern towers and along the wall, near the river so that barges can unload directly into the structure. Coyle predicts that, come winter, you will need to post a guard outside the compound, but you hope that it doesn't come to that. You are, however, anxious. Montelban is coming back today (your warships spotted him just before dawn) and you are unsure just how many provisions he will be requesting of you this time.
>>20219098You are too busy to greet him at the dock, but you take the meeting in your solar, the small fire crackling merrily as it wards off the damp. Over a few glasses of wine, Montelban lays out his new plan: He wants to raid the slave ships of Slaver's Bay, stealing the cargos of Yunkai and selling them to the sister cities. With the gold he will make in Astapor's slave markets, he can buy exotic spiced wines, gemstones, silks, and spices. These he can sell in King's Landing for ridiculous profit, before hiring mercenaries there to be transported to the Disputed Lands to aid in the Braavosi war effort there. Such a delivery of warriors would earn him an even larger profit than before, which he would take in cloth-of-gold before heading back across the sea, through the Stepstones, and home to Saltmouth. He acknowledges that it is an audacious plan, but the adventure and danger is half the point of it.>What say you?
>>20219164Sounds like a bold plan my friend. I only ask that you take caution. I would not be pleased to have built such a fine mansion for a corpse.
>>20219164This is a risky plan you're proposing but one that can bring great profits to us both.I ask two things of you, be careful in your raids upon the Yunkai, do not go after too many ships at once or linger long once they've been captured, and second do not die, I happen to enjoy your company and no mansion is truly complete should its owner perish.
>>20219249>>20219205He laughs at that. "My friend, I mean to return with a hold full of treasures and a pair of Yunkish whores sucking my cock.... Or maybe two score. In truth, I haven't decided yet. This adventure will easily be worth the risk, I can assure you. And if some filthy thief in Astapor cuts my throat? Well, then you have a fine house to call your own on that nice hill outside of town! HA!" The two of you share another glass of wine over the idea, before he heads down to prepare his crew.Coyle seems far less enthused by the journey. They will be taking dozens of barrels of beer and flour, and hundreds of links of sausages. Water is never an issue with the Windingwater so close, but things like sailcloth and rope might be in short supply once the seven ships (one cog newly claimed in Oldtown, reportedly on a bet) depart, but the potential profit is just... Too tempting to let go. Alone, the emeralds he brought back for you the last time are so valuable you cannot even think of a price. His own take of the loot was just as kingly (a dozen golden bars marked with the symbol of the Iron Bank itself... you knew better than to ask where he found them) and as ambitious a plan as this is, it might be even more lucrative. Well supplied, still half-drunk in the morning, and all well-whored, the crew departs with the tide several hours before dawn two days later. You can honestly say you feel sad watching them go.>Roll 1d6 for House Fortune
rolled 2 = 2>>20219280Lets see how lady luck smiles upon us this month. Will our storehouses finish this month?
rolled 4 = 4>>20219280
rolled 2 = 2>>20219280
That is sufficient to get us two +1's to be added to any two stats we feel like dumping them in. Vote for your favorites guys.Current stats are:Defense - 3Influence - 42Lands - 0Law – 54Population - 33Power – 4Wealth - 11This month, the work on the storehouses will finish. Also, our weaver and architect will arrive.Work continues on the market upgrades, the castle renovations, and the construction of the sept.
>>20219343Just like last month, money making machine and power.Do you have the lists on how much each military unit costs in power? So if my notes are correct it will be 9 more months until the market is done and 12 until the sept? I don't know what the time on the castle is though.
>>20219343One of them into the Karban Money Machine, the other into Power. Now that we have the Architect we can have him oversee the construction of the Fishing Wharf on the Wavebreak Islands, it'll only cost 8 wealth now. A few questions about the Wharf, we'll be building it in Crabber's Harbor but will the benefits extend to the rest of the islands? What exactly will the mechanical benefits be? It doubles the effectiveness of any fishing fleets stationed in the area but what is the raw crunchy mechanical benefit.
>>20219359For right now, just use the ASoIaF book as the guide until I finish the final polish on the unit tables. They should be done by thursday's game, however.Your timers on both those structures are correct. The castle still has several years on its upgrades, so don't even worry about that shit yet.
>>20219280Perhaps we should send one or two warships with him? If he does intend to raid, a good warship could be invaluable as direct combatant or a spook for a ambush.
>>20219390Any chance you have a list of all of the things our house currently owns? I have a good list of the things on the Clawwater Islands but my mainland Karban list is kinda bare, and I have no clue exactly what we have for an army.
All right, lets roll that d6 for Wealth.>>20219384The benefits extend towards Crabber's Harbor only, for now. Certain upgrades to it (being worked on and examined now) can extend the bonuses to nearby islands. Each fishing fleet (expect it thursday, i promise guys) adds +1 to Population increases and rolls.The big, main islands (Crabber's Harbor, Bastard's Crade, and Salty Shale) all basically function as independent of one another, since roughly 1200 or so folks live on each island and have needs that cannot be addressed by shared structures... However, many of the smaller islands (like the Isle of Pigs or Mermaid's Palace) can benefit from the upgrades to the nearest major islands.
AWWWW YEAH, COMMERCE AND INTRIGUE
rolled 2 = 2>>20219446lets see how much cash money karban made this month
rolled 6 = 6>>20219446Hmm, okay for now we should hold off on the Wharf as we don't have much info on the fishing fleets or if we even have any.
>>20219453should we use our once every 6 month reroll to change my roll to >>20219458 ?
rolled 1 = 1C'mon, lady luck. Karban needs a new... hell, a new EVERYTHING
rolled 5 = 5>>20219465Silly me, I forgot I'M NOT ALLOWED TO ROLL.
>>20219446Question about the Iron Mines, it says it gives a +1 to all Power/Defense rolls, does adding the +1 to power count for this?
The market and port keeps money flowing into the city, especially as ships from the isles bring in crates and pots of dragon crabs, eels, clams, and mackerel. Those go up the Windingwater towards Cargill lands, where they will fetch a fair price.Current Stats:Defense - 3Influence - 42Lands - 0Law – 54Population - 33Power – 5Wealth - 19
>>20219481Yes it does.>>20219472Don't worry about it.>>20219490Copied old stats. Lemme take another whack at it.Defense - 4Influence - 42Lands - 0Law – 54Population - 33Power – 7Wealth - 19
>>20219490I say we convert 10 wealth into power this month, then use 8 power to buy a trained cavalry unity. If the Cargills start a territory fight a unit of trained horsemen will allow our army to outmaneuver and flank enemies all day long.
>>20219500Spend 10 wealth, buy a foreman for our Iron Mines. It'll double all of the benefits for only 10 wealth.
Well, back after a night's sleep, and that's one more month gone by without us doing anything about the girls. How long have they been waiting around now ?What are they doing of their time here ?We need to go talk with them. First we should begin by telling them our view of the events, and what our role was. They're free not to believe us, and not to like us, but they should be aware that we believe that we've done what we could to preserve their family, with the exception of their father.That in mind, explain why we took them in. They're now landless nobles, and women. Their brothers are on the wall, and their parents are dead. Their lives are set to be pretty grim : they'll be separated to be married off to some impoverished nobles that they probably will never love and who will treat them as a more or less valued piece of property. They're likely to never see their brothers again.We thought this future was a bit too grim. We took them in to give them the possibility to build their lives around themselves and each other, and to marry by choice. They have the opportunity to become, in time and thanks to their work, autonomous women in control of their life. In the future they'll be able to return to Dalyna if they want to, but for now we made the choice for them.We only need them to tell us their wishes about their future, and what they're good at beyond being a lord's daughters.Apologize too for the time they spent here doing nothing, but we were busy and thought they might use a long pause in their lives at this point.See >>20212310 too.
>>20219500Changing my mind slightly. Lets get a foreman for our Iron mines and convert 8 wealth into power, leaving us with 1 wealth left over. We still will have enough power to buy the cavalry.
>>20219522Is it bad to say I was hoping you wouldn't come back to the quest thread?
>>20219542This was me, my trip fell off apparently.
>>20219522Oh for the love of- Just hand the girls over to Dalyna as soon as possible, they'll do better with her. It was a mistake to take them in the first place.
>>20219542All right... So are we set to do the swap? It seems we are agreed to find a Foreman for our mine, but do we want to convert Wealth to Power to afford a new unit of cavalry?Now, we have talked about cavalry, but we never pulled the trigger. While our old ground units have been good, cavalry opens up some serious fucking options. We can send them as bodyguard to important messenger duty, or use them to escort our chosen representatives. They have manifold out-of-combat uses that make them a great purchase.
>>20219583We've got plenty of footmen now, This is a good a time as ever to purchase cavalry.
>>20219583Trained cavalry will cost us 8 power btw, if we want veteran it will cost 11. I say we trade in 8 wealth into power, which will put us up to 11. I don't care if we buy trained and save up power for more things or veteran and build up from scratch again.
>>20219583Swap is good, but do not buy cavalry, its a waste. Our naval power still isnt where i want it to be, we should prioritise getting more warships, trained ones preferabls.
Hell to the shit yes, I can't believe this is still going.>>20219583It's got my vote.
>>20219583>>20219600I think we should trade enough to get trained, and then use the fact that once we get a foreman we'll be getting a +3 to power for each +1 we put in we can upgrade them to veteran, I think.
>>20219602We already have 4 units of warships and a ground based fight is about to take place in the Arbor over the Cargill lands. Cavalry is infinitely useful, and at worst they can be used to help defend the castle as well. With the foreman for our mine we'll start getting crazy amounts of power and will go back to building up more ships.Oh and buying ships costs a crapload of power because not only do you need the ships, you have to buy the sailors as well.
>>20219577>they'll do better with her.I disagree, for reasons already explained.And I agree that it will have been a mistake, if we don't take care of them and just send them back after a few months. How will this look to Paxter and Dalyna ?
>>20219611Well, you do if you want them to be able to drop troops onto the coast. I mean, all ships have a small compliment of fighting men and archers... But when you have a unit of dedicated marines on board the fleet, their offensive capabilities go up drastically.>>20219617Not horrifically badly, all things considered. We acted out of regard for what we did... If anything, people will look at the action as an attempt at knightly chivalry. Then again, we could always just say that the girls are still our wards, but are with Dalyna and her ladies to better socialize and educate them.>So are we swapping Wealth for Power?
>>20219611Well, it seems i am overvoted anyways. Are our Archers and Infantry still on the Wavebreaker Islands? If yes get them back now. Maybe invest in a Guard unit for the Islands, if they need one?
>>20219634Yup, trade in 8 wealth for 4 power, use 8 power to buy trained cavalry. Bank the rest of our power for now.Also buy a foreman for our iron mine.Should leave us at 1 wealth 3 power I believe.
>>20219634An attempt we gave up without really trying. And Dalyna and Paxter, whose opinion matters most, will know it for what what it is.Let's swap, yes.
>>20219647Agreed. Also, for 3 Power we could get a green Garrision to keep peace on the Islands, allowing us to get our experienced troops back to Saltmouth in preperation of the War...
>>20219647There's no reason to spend any more wealth to power than necessary, either get Veteran cavalry with 10 power and convert 6 wealth or trained cavalry with 8 power and only convert 2 Wealth. Maybe spend some of the extra power on a Garrison for the Islands.Can we spend Power later to upgrade our troops?
>>20219636Our ground forces are still on the Wavebreakers with Ser Wallgrave and Jorge Caswell. They are supporting a unit of garrison that is patrolling Crabber's Harbor. Ser Wallgrave has the arms and armor to get another unit of garrison if you would order it.>>20219611Well, you do if you want them to be able to drop troops onto the coast. I mean, all ships have a small compliment of fighting men and archers... But when you have a unit of dedicated marines on board the fleet, their offensive capabilities go up drastically.You make sure to let Ser Laurence know that a unit of cavalry will be required. This is something he heartily agrees with. "Lancers would be a fine addition to our forces, my lord. I will ensure that we find suitable men and sufficient arms and horse for them." You also make sure to let Coyle know that a master foreman for your iron mine would be something that would pay dividends, even during the coming winter. Coyle agrees with your logic, and promises to send out word for the opening.>Roll 1d4 for background and 1d6 for time on our new artisan.
>>20219668The reason i say convert is because we can only convert 10 wealth per month. It doesn't do us any good just sitting in our pool really, and next month we most likely will be back up to 10 wealth that we could convert over to something else.
rolled 2 = 2>>20219672Rolling for his background
rolled 4 = 4>>20219672Hu, we should at least get the archers back in my opinion. We might want to wait till we can get a trained Garrision before getting the Infantry home. Also, id6 for time
>>20219662This is true. Because the arms and armor are ready and waiting, Ser Wallgrave could recruit a unit of garrison for 3 Power. They will be bearing kite shields (like most isle soldiers do) and heavy, broad-bladed axes instead of the spears of their other guard counterparts.>>20219668Yes we can. Power upgrades their training and readiness level, while Power or Wealth can increase the quality of their equipment and arms.>>20219680Coyle finds, after a few days of asking around, a foreman who you can poach from just south of Cornfield, if a tradesman out of Lannisport is to be believed. Word will take a month to reach him, and the journey down to you will take another two months... But he should be exactly what you are looking for.
>>20219703 CONTNow, I just need to struggle to not shoot my tv out. Fucking Joe goddamn Scarborough spewing ridiculous bullshit, like he does every morning... God do I hate that guy.But where does everyone stand on the whole "second Crabber's Harbor garrison" thing?
rolled 3 = 3>>20219724wait until we can get better than just a green garrison. However recalling our archers isn't a bad idea.
>>20219728We can get a trained garrison... But that, the Wealth swap, and the trained cavalry will put us at zero Power.
>>20219653Of course we tried. What did you expect? We gave them what was expected of us to give them, a place to crash, protection, education. It isnt our fault they didnt get happy with that.It is the wise one who accepts his failure. The girls arent happy here and therefore we send them to Dalyna.Though i would still like to send them to our family in the Riverlands. We still have to go there for a Marriage, right?
>>20219737That sounds good, we may as well use Power, that's what it's there for.
I don't think we really need much power in the islands. The main threat there is pirates, while a war might start here for the cargill lands.
>>20219737Huh, okay then. I thought that we would be 2 power short from getting a trained unit. By all means lets do that.
>>20219741Do it. If we get another trained Garrision there we can get our troops home and have nearly 500 Man at the ready in Saltmouth. We dont want a Cargill fucktwit to try and raid our city when it comes to a civil war.
any downside from no power?
>>20219740Mhm. Sometime this month (probably) we should expect a return message from our family. However, assuming they want us to come to the wedding (I certainly hope they do), it would be within time that we could simply ride north from Oldtown. If we took ships north along the coast, we would have even more time... Although such a trip means our return journey puts us traveling in the beginnings of winter, it should be all right.... You hope.
>>20219757Not really? It just means that we don't have stockpiles of arms and armor laying around, ready to be put to use... Basically, it means our military is operating at high efficiency, without any real stockpiles left over for a "just in case" moment.>>20219746This is true. We currently have two warship units (one trained, one green) patrolling the Wavebreakers... Perhaps a unit of marines would be a big advantage? But it wouldn't be necessary. The two units of guardsmen should lock the place down... And given more time, the rest of the Clawwater war gear can be put to use to arm perhaps two or three hundred more men for the islands.Current Stats:Defense - 4Influence - 42Lands - 0Law – 54Population - 33Power – 0Wealth - 1
>>20219740I don't think paxter or dalyna expected us to just give them the bare minimum.They probably expected us to be charming enough and active enough to take their minds off what happened. But we didn't even talk to them.
>>20219786I've been under the assumption that we've been socializing with them behind the scenes during downtime. It only makes sense.
>>20219761We can always go there by sea, send our ships back as soon as we land, and ride back when it's winter.
>>20219761I would very much like to go to this marriage. Besides the fact that we are on good footing with our family it could give us contacts on the other side of the sea.Meta: We also get to know people on the other side of Roberts Rebellion. This might be usefull since we already seem to be gravitating toward Robert Stormborn...
>>20219786>>20219791Playerfour has it right. It isn't like we have cloistered the girls in a tower under strict guard. They have the run of 90% of the castle, and spend much of their days near either Ben or the squires. They sit near the high table during feasts and meals, and they are dressed in silks, lace, and velvet... Understandably, they are still rather gloomy. But it isn't like we have ignored them.>>20219803That, actually, isn't the worst plan ever. As long as the Trident and the Mander aren't entirely swelled with rains, it should be an easy (if a bit uncomfortable) trip. Then again, if the snows and frost comes early, the rivers will probably be frozen. Which is, again, a mixed blessing.
>>20219786Just let it go. Really, you're the only one wanting to keep them around.
>>20219819First reading that, I though you were talking about my hatred for Joe Scarborough. Because I am that tired.>>20219814Well, Robert Baratheon is a vital and robust 19... and he already stands nearly taller than us, and certainly broader than us. He will probably remember us, and his moods make him amenable to making friends. The Oldtown Tourney might bring out all kinds of folks... I will let you chew on that for a while. *BUM BUM BUMMMM*
>>20219816I see. But still, if their main activities ares studying with Ben and hanging around the castle and the two squires, I think that's too hands-off. And that the bit of talk about what they want to do would be useful.Did we bring back their stuff and favoured servants from the islands ?
All right guys... Unless we can think of something else super-pressing (aside from all the shit that is going to come up this month), I think I am going to end it here for tonight.I will be here for another short while I shut everything down, and I am willing to answer questions and speculation.
>>20219819I wasn't there for the vote to bring them with us, and there's been a few others to support that in the last thread.
well then lets get the new troops. check our funds. check to see if we can move the girls somewhere more socaible and check on our vassal
Ok, i don't think we have any really important plans for now? Maybe we should really talk with the girls. Note that they do not seem to be happy, which is a shame but understandable. Tell them that they will travel to Oldtown with Dalynas Ladies and that they can decide wheter they would like to stay with Dalyna or come back to Saltmouth later. Also tell them that even if they go with Dalyna you still feel responsible for them because of a promise you gave their brother Damien.Otherwise keep an ear to the ground and wait out the month.
>>20219849Questions... Do we know the military capabilities of both Cargill branches? How do they compare to our own?
>>20219849When is the harvest going to be? I know Paxter and Dalyna are coming afterwards. Also I believe the oldtown tournament is in 5 months, correct?Another unrelated question is if you have a list of our military units? I know some of them but I'm not sure on infantry, archers, sailors, ect.Oh yeah, what time on thursday?
>>20219834Do we still keep Dalyna's panties stashed somewhere? How much would they fetch on the "market"?And I'm all for dropping the sisters on Dalyna & Paxter as soon as we can.
>>20219849Wenches were promised. Wenches must be had.
>>20219855Our troops are currently being trained and prepared, with all things in good order on that front. As your forces expand, however, you might need to think about where they will be barracked. Large military forces take up space, after all. Our lands are fine (if rain-soaked), with the smallfolk working desperately to ensure a plentiful harvest. They know this is the last one before the winter comes. As for our treasury? Two small chests are the only thing in the room: one with several handfuls of dragons, and the other containing five sacks of silver stags. You really don't have a lot of walking around money.>>20219845It is being packed up onto one of your warships to return to Saltmouth with the soldiers you left behind to guard the island. When your forces return, it will be coming back as well.>>20219857They know that they are going to be spending a serious chunk of time in Lady Dalyna's company, and that definitely picked their moods up a little bit.
I am 93% certain we returned them.
>>20219874Karban is going for months upon months of blue balls. It's his burden for being so damn lucky.
>>20219876Are we able to spend some of the money that is in the tunnels of our second castle?
>>20219876There's also a giant pile of emeralds.If we got a jeweler would those count as a valuable resource? Do we have anything else that would count as a valuable resource for a jeweler?
>>20219878We need a new blason, we Two Balls of Azure instead of the galley
>>20219895>with*
>>20219876>>20219845Did we get the girl's things back from their former castle ? What about the servant she missed ?
>>20219819No he is not. >>20219874They were indeed. And not delivered.
>>20219896>>20219895>>20219878Next session: pussy everywhere, I promise.>>20219874Bitches are imminent. Do not fret Hazza.>>20219862The Cargills have forces that are larger than ours. The western branch of the family has perhaps twelve hundred men under arms, with maybe two hundred cavalry and sixty knights and ten war galleys. The eastern branch has roughly the same number of men under arms, with about three hundred cavalry, seventy knights, and only five warships.... At our current rate of militarization, however, that lead is getting eaten up quickly.Our forces in the isles are currently ten war galleys, a company of marines, a detachment of spearmen, and our company of archers. Patrolling the town and the keep are two hundred guardsmen, who also rotate through the other islands. On the mainland, ten war galleys sit in port, with a company of marines spread between them. In the castle, two hundred well-trained guardsmen watch the town and our surrounding lands, while a unit of spearmen and lancers are currently undergoind training.>>20219891We can't get a jeweler because of them, but they are each probably worth a sack of golden dragons.
>>20219925Crunchwise what do our units equal including level of expertise (green, trained, ect)
>>20219925I am sure this one will live for eight hours for you to continue and deliver on your promise this session.
>>20219925Wow, 20 war galleys, we're not a chump when it comes to naval power.We do need more land forces and more marines for boarding and beach assault stuff. How many ships does Portain have?
>>20219944Portain ties for second-place on the Arbor when it comes to naval power. Like House Merrywind, he has sixty ships to his banner.>>20219936To use the old, pre-update unit classification: Three trained units of warships, and one green unit.Three units of trained garrison, and one green unit.Two units of trained marines.Two units of trained infantry.One unit of trained archers.One unit of trained cavalry (almost finished).One unit of veteran bodyguard (the Steel Guard).
>>20219944Looks like we could crush the Cargills at sea but we wouldn't stand a chance in a land based fight unless we cheated (dragonfire). I agree we need more land forces, I didn't realize how far behind we were
>>20219925Sweet, see you next time Princely.
>>20219961Agreed. Before i championed for more Ships, but it looks like we first need to invest in Infantry, Archers and Cavalry. 300 Lancers is a really hefty force.
>>20220003Not all of that cavalry is lancers. For the western branch, they have a force of nearly fifty yeomen who ride with their knights. They are experienced and well-armed troopers, with suits of heavy chain and blades of castle-forged steel. Just the shock of one of their charges could cause MASS damage to your troopers.I will see you guys around, and soon.
>>20220104We should train our men to run backwards in formation.
bihourly cpr.
>>20220642I don't think that's a terrible idea, may not be a good tactic, but it would make our troops have a well developed sense of balance.
>>20223673I'm not an experienced military commander, but I assume that this is a movement rarely practiced on battlefields, and it would make encirclements movements easier than with just the wings advancing. Add caltrops and it might be effective against a charge of experienced soldiers.
we have enough forces it looks like to split their forces up, if we could somehow split their forces it would be easier to destroy their forces
"Quickly everyone run backwards, their cavalry is advancing!" Then they throw down spikes, horses are ruined, line collide. It could happen! Don't look at me like that!
trihourly cpr.
Alright so the only current potential wives we know of are Dalyna and Veronica, right? Just got started on reading the threads, on Quest VI right now but thought I'd chime in now.To be honest, the main things we should be aiming for in a wife is political power, ability to produce an heir, and compatibility. Veronica certainly has political power, wide hips/ample bosom (sure signs of fertility) yet I have no idea on how well our main man Karban and her actually "click."I'd recommend holding off on going through courtship until we get a better picture of the other potential spouses. Marrying into the Arbor would be fine and all, but what if we were to marry into gaining a port on the mainland? Owning the ports means slashing the amount of other people you have to pay in tariffs and taxes, while at the same time being able to tax and tariff more goods as they come through, it'd be JUST as good as owning the Arbor itself, with potentially a LOT less work!Also to y'all recommending a Hot Dornish Wife: I agree that should become a reality, but not as a wife, but as a mistress. Sexual promiscuity, at least outside of marriage for noblewomen, is a nasty political shitstorm that has already been shown to ruin at least one certain Tully's reputation.
>>20226642Personally I'd recommend a spattering of pikemen/spearmen amongst the formations, while equipping our other troops with caltrops. When the horses start charging just have your pikemen take up the front while the other troops move back, throwing caltrops along the way.
>>20227718totes disagree with you here, man.If the books are anything to go by, mistresses and bastards do nothing but contribute to fucking you over.Imagine if Robert Baratheon wasn't whoring and actually paid attention to Cersei Lannister. Canon is destroyed.Imagine if Ned Stark doesn't father Jon Snow. Canon is destroyed, and the Watch would likely actively aid Stannis and all that implies.Not to mention we're actively trying to marry into a powerful House, who won't take kindly to us cheating on our wife. The best thing, and I think Karban would recognize this, is to play it safe.Karban can be daring, but we're basically playing as a benevolent Littlefinger, right now. I honestly think we shouldn't settle on Veronica or Dalyna UNTIL THE TOURNAMENT. Hot bitches will be all over a daring young knight, and THEN we can take our pick. However, I definitely think we should marry OUTSIDE the Arbor. It's what everyone expects least from us, especially Lord Redwyne, but it could still be EXTREMELY beneficial in the long run.
You know what I think we should have?We should have a War department. The commanders of each unit (footsoldiers, archers, naval, etc) should meet together and start planning exactly what happens if shit should hit the fan. They should plan generally enough or specifically enough to each situation required. For example, If Neissen Cargil does try to take the lands by force... A.) how many troops would he field, worst/best case scenario>>>>1.) how many bannermen could aide him/back him likely>>>>>>a.) how many troops would they provide>>>>>>>>>1.) likely command structure>>>>>>>>>2.) personalities of units who would be in charge>>>>>>b.) food, support, logisitics, etc.>>>>>>>>>1.) food, storage areas>>>>>>>>>2.) maps (fucking important, UP TO DATE MAPS, INCLUDING FORDABLE AREAS)>>>>>>c.) movement of troops>>>>>>>>>1.) ambush areas>>>>>>>>>2.) likely movement of troops>>>>>>>>>3.) choke points on troop movements >>>>2.) How many would back him in an unlikely scenario>>>>>>>-Same as above>>>>3.) Total mercenary forces>>>>4.) Personality of the major commanders in the field, how they respond to fight
>>20227917B.) Force necessary to fight them alone/with lords troops/best and worst case scenario>>>>1.) Same as above, basic format and whatnot Only thing I would add is whatever our logistical plans, add +2 months. Also add the fastest routes for troops to gather at certain pointsC.) Combined operation with Naval forces1.) Disposition of naval forces required.2.) What will the navy need and where3.) Likely landing areas of troops, both enemy and friendly.Then, you practice the fuck out of moving troops, get to know how fast they can move and fight in a given area or timeframe, and how effectively they can do so. You use detailed maps to figure out how troops could be moved, what is the best placement of the troops before hostilities, etc.deleted, reposted because the outline didn't have good spaces in it, so it was done this way.
bihourly cpr
>>20227867Now that you mentioned Ned, I can open this can of worms.No fucking way is Jon his son.
>>20227867So the ideal wife for Karban is a virginal, fertile mainland woman from a powerful family and in possession of a keen intellect and understanding of family/realm affairs (Catelyn was effective as a ruler while Ned was away and Robb didn't think he could actually govern things.) Gotta think of our heirs after all, we need them to have good genetics.By the Seven, it sounds like we need to find a Karban with tits. Wouldn't be a bad thing of course; they might get along famously if they don't become natural rivals.Also you forgot to also point out how, if Cersei just kept her legs together for anyone besides Robert, then Joffrey would've never been conceived. And I think we all would agree him never coming about would've been the best thing ever for Westeros.
>>20227867What are you crazy? Veronica is THE HEIR of her House we can WAY MORE THAN DOUBLE ALL our assets (lands, troops, political power and wealth generation) if we simply marry her. People don't seen to understand that we can join her house and ours. We can become the main banner house of the Redwynes. We will NOT find a better marriage opportunity on the mainland, not with all the benefits Veronica has and certainly not with another heir of a house like her.
>>20228011Tommen's hardly better, but I know what you mean. Imagine if Gendry was the heir instead of Joffrey; suddenly there is no incest to discover, and Jon Arryn lives a few years longer. Ned Stark continues to rule the North, there is no war of the Five Kings, seeing as Stannis has nothing to actually bitch about and Renly wouldn't bother to raise an army when all of Westeros would see it as rebellion.Daenarys and Aegon would land in Westeros to find a more or less united land, at which point they would have a much harder time getting anywhere, much less linking forces. Of course, I get the feeling young Aegon doesn't have much longer to live anyways; GRRM seems to like killing of his Young Kings.
>>20228151It's easy to say one option is better then the other when the only options available are, "Dalyna, Veronica, or life of celibacy."There's no rush in marrying Veronica, considering we both got her fairly secured as a potential suitor (at least her peers think so) and we still need to see how compatible Karban and her are (not to mention her mother's batshit insane, that's a pretty big "Uhhhhhh" for marriage.)I say we see what the mainland has to offer Karban before settling on one wife or the other. Dehorsing Baratheon and possibly being a swag fucker in the next tournament will definitely bring out some of the more lucrative suitors by next thread.
>>20227917Good idea.>>20227867Jon snow didn't fuck over Ned. Personally I'm for marrying Victoria and getting Dalyna as a mistress. But more generally, I think we should take risks and use our power to satisfy our desires for adventure and women and stuff.I think we should play Karban as a lucky Tyrion, instead as a benevolent Littlefinger. It should be more fun.>>20227718Large bosoms are not actually signs of fertility. But anyway, waiting for new offers is good, but I don't think many prospects will be better than Dalyna's or Victoria's. Beautiful nobles of marriable age shouldn't be so common. Those who are the heir to their father's domain are rarer still. And among those, most will have better offers than ours.And Dalyna is likely to be the only one of her rank that we could hope to marry, as we are now. Her brother like us, and she does too, but daughters of other big lords will have nothing to do with us.Of course, things might change in time (if we play our cards right during the rebellion), but we're talking years.
>>20228011>in possession of a keen intellect and understanding of family/realm affairsThat's not really necessary. Sure, we don't want a dumb broad, but if she doesn't concern herself with administrative work that's fine, we can recruit men for that. We already have some.Also, Catelyn was not particularily talented, she just had two decades or so to learn.As for heirs... children are nice to have around, but we live our life for ourself.
>>20228313The robert's rebellion is actually many years away. Also No metagaming.
>>20228313>Large bosoms are not actually signs of fertility. Secondary sex characteristic. Wide hips is a direct sign of fertility, but there's a reason men of damn near every culture will prefer a woman with large breasts as opposed to one with small if the two were otherwise identical.So would you have us go for Dalyna, or Veronica? Once we see what other offers are available, we're going to have to make a choice lest we lose those two options and be forced to wait for another to present itself (which may never actually happen.)Shit man, it's a gamble; marry now and get a great guarantee, or continue to expand our power and influence and hope we get higher-tier offers in the future.Ultimately, we should understand that Karban Spawn will be just as useful for marriage chips as Karban will, which sort of makes waiting beyond the next tourney to find a mate kind of useless. If it's not Karban who'll get lucrative marriage proposals, by God it's going to be Karban v2.
>>20228396So children will never become a focus in this Quest? Damn, was thinking this might become a Crusader Kings 2 style deal where we try and create a lineage (which is why I was saying we should look for good genetic traits, want to give your kids the best, after all.)
>>20228430>Also No metagaming.Okay, but that means Karban really should have no hope of getting a lot from a marriage. Well, unless he can get Dalyna, or if he marries Victoria and her father dies soon after. No other offer will be as good as that and we can't reasonably hope to improve our station enough on our own to change that in the coming years.>>20228462>men of damn near every culture will prefer a woman with large breastsI doubt that statement.
>>20228511Princely said in passing that if we have a kid it will ensure the game continues should we di.
>>20228558>No other offer will be as good as that and we can't reasonably hope to improve our station enough on our own to change that in the coming years.It's time for us to get our first taste of Westeros court intrigue. Given Karban's knowledge and established "attitude" (in the sense that he tends to be cunning) I'd be surprised if Karban didn't advance his position through guile, blackmail, assassination or other dirtier practices.
>>20228511>>20228511Princely's stated that if we have a male heir, we can continue the quest even if Karban is killed (or dies of old age!)Also, you guys are forgetting that Dalyna is off-limits for the time being; all the advice we've been given suggests that we're just not powerful enough to be seen as a serious suitor. Not to mention that Lord Redwyne gains nothing by marrying off Dalyna to a House already sworn to his service.That was the whole point of Lord Redwyne gifting us a shitload of land upon his death: he wants to keep us satisfied without having to sacrifice Dalyna in marriage.
>>20228462Dalyna, or Veronica?Veronica we are equal standing and she brings the most benefits. Dalyna is way out of our reach. Any day now a Hightower or a Floren or a Swann or even a Tyrell will seek her hand. Thats the level where the Redwynes are just below The Great Houses.
>>20228685This guy's right.If we REALLY want to leapfrog in power, we're going to have go outside the Arbor and make some kind of deal with Redwyne-level house. Lord Redwyne is happy because we seal relations with a powerful house, and we're happy because all of sudden, we jump up to Middle-Tier House and all the legitimacy that it implies.
>>20228685So as a recap, what do we (as in Karban) know about Veronica, her family, and what we'll need to do to get her hand in marriage with as many bonuses attached? Hate to sound like an ignoramus, but all I know is that she's got a huge tracts of land (both on and off a map,) is on the same political level of us, has an "insane" mother (no idea what that entails) and seems to get along with Karban swimmingly.On a tangent, I'm getting a sinking suspicion that some suitors for Dalyna/Veronica are going to come when the next tourney starts up. If we want to safely secure Veronica as our wife, we'll need to do so very, very soon.
>>20228740>If we REALLY want to leapfrog in power, we're going to have go outside the Arbor and make some kind of deal with Redwyne-level house.It's a good time to note that the only reason we've got Veronica and Delyna as suitors is because they're, coincidentally, on the Arbor. News travels faster on the island then it does on the mainland, for all we know we could encounter a Redwyne-tier House at the tourney who arrived "as fast as they can" to introduce their daughter to the man that dehorsed Robert Baratheon.Hell, for all we know Redwyne is being kind to us yet using our cordial relations to slowly wall us into a position where our ability to expand is limited. Even if we're friends, he's going to want to find ways to check our power (and should we let that happen?)
>>20228803>News travels faster on the island then it does on the mainland, for all we know we could encounter a Redwyne-tier House at the tourney who arrived "as fast as they can" to introduce their daughter to the man that dehorsed Robert Baratheon.Aka we wait until the Tourney to see if anything from the mainland presents itself, and if not we use the festive mood of the Tourney (and potential spoils if we win) to begin formally courting Veronica.
>>20228743You basically hit the high notes, bud.Veronica's basically an apple within easy reach; marriage with her would double our Arbor lands, but her mom (or someone else) might try to assassinate us. We gain a little rep, and along with Lord Redwyne's gift of lands, means we suddenly control a sizeable portion of the Arbor, something that is sure to be very profitable.It would, however, firmly limit our power to the region. There's very little chance our House will make waves (heh, get it?) on a national scale. Dalyna gives us a chance at ruling the Arbor proper, but again, she's way above our power level.But if we win the tourney, IF we win the tourney, everything could change. 5000 dragons is a ridiculously large amount of money, and could instantly legitimize House Karban, especially if we continue to invest the way we have been.
>>20228851So as it stands; it's either a matter of choosing wealth over a chance at power, or taking a shot at power at the cost of guaranteed (unless our luck fails us) wealth. Karban strikes me as an ambitious sort, I can imagine he'd pick a potentially less lucrative wife over Veronica if it gives him a firm foot in the door of some powerful mainland House.To be honest all of this is just wild conjecture before we actually see who comes to the Tourney, and most importantly who wins.
>>20228851It's really not about the money, 1 wealth is about 200 dragons, 25 Wealth while nice is what we make in 3-4 months easy. It's icing. The big deal would be crowning some Lady the Queen of Love & Beauty. We could instantly grab Dalyna, we couldn't get someone from one of the big houses like Tyrell, Lannister or Martell but we would be possibly be able to get Ashara Dayne, which would fulfill Hot Dornish Wife and be insanely politically useful, we'd also get The Sword of the Morning as a Brother in Law. However we shouldn't plan for us to win, it's not going to happen. No matter how much we train our asses off we're up against a lot of opponents many of which are insanely good, the law of averages states that eventually we're gonna roll bad and lose. We should focus on making connections with people, poaching skilled knights, getting our name out there and charming the hell out of any eligible young ladies.
>>20228957>However we shouldn't plan for us to win, it's not going to happen. No matter how much we train our asses off we're up against a lot of opponents many of which are insanely good, the law of averages states that eventually we're gonna roll bad and lose. I always pictured Karban as less "I wanna be a Lannister" and more, "I wanna be a Clegane" on the level of importance. Someone that has a well-known house and is a useful ally, but hardly someone that can be considered a Great House.
>>20228740See the problem with this is that most houses always try to marry into higher tiers not downwards. It's the same as try to get Dalyna.>>20228743The father is old, he like us and he is in health decline like lord redwyne only slower. He also made very clear suggestion to us about marrying Veronica. Our match could be easy to make. The mother lost three children's before the girls and doesn't seen to like us but we haven't interact with her much so it's possible to win her over if we imply getting her lots of grandsons.And finally the last three suitors die soon after making arrangings. Likely suspects are the mother because she might be crazy but there is a lack of evidence for this. And a cosin who will end a landless knight and appears to be gaddering swords and is likely to try to take the lands by force if no strong opposition stands in his way, Princely gas indicated that if we marry Veronica before her father dies and we consolidate our holdings he will not be able make a move without looking like an unjust aggression.
>>20229028>See the problem with this is that most houses always try to marry into higher tiers not downwards. It's the same as try to get Dalyna.Not to mention most Houses might get concerned to see a pipsqueak House managing to become so frighteningly wealthy/influential relative to it's miniscule size/age. Other Houses... Might see it as a quick way to gain power and wealth.Of course the big chink in THAT assumption is it'd imply Littlefinger should've received at least a few proposals from major houses, which never actually happened.
>>20229176Yeah some Houses will be looking for old blood. We can trace our bloodline to an old noble house in the Riverlands but our house is just a few years old.
>>20228851I disagree Sharply with you here. Marrying Veronica is in my opinion our road to the title of most powerful bannerman of the Arbor, which secures our position at home and allows us to engage in all kind of intrigues on the mainland.Think about it: Not only do we double our current holdings, we gain instant controll over the majority of the mines on the Arbor, and in Combination with the money we are making in Saltmouth we have the liquidity to upgrade the hell out of it. This will kickstart our Productivity to whole new levels and accelerate our powergain enough to likely be able to overthrow the Redwynes, should we want to. Bonus that we get more independent in case Trade suffers or we suffer a failed crop.Also we gain the legitimacy to involve ourselves in the shenaningans surrounding the other Cargill branch. Essentially, we can just take away their Lands should the current Lord die without heirs, and voila, we have trippled our Holdings. Add to that that we are Bro-tier with Portain we control nearly half of the Arbor.We will be seriously powerful. Dalyna will only bring us prestige, while a mainland woman likely wont bring us any holdings at all. We need to expand our powerbase at the arbor, as it is a single ironborn attack aimed more at burning than plunder could ruin all we have worked for up until now. Medieval cities burn FAST. And considering that Saltmouth is moving fast towards Oldtown tiers of trade that isnt even that unlikely
Take our chances at the tournament.Even if we don't win, we might start a ripple that leads to a wave. We're still young, no need to force Karban into a sure thing.
>Dalyna is way out of our reach.No. On paper, she is, but this girl is throwing herself at us.If we cultivate her love, we've got a good chance to convince her and her brother to forget about political maneuvers and to give her a match that will make her happy.That being said, I agree with >>20231196. Veronica is more useful to us. And if we want to use the power of love on Dalyna, we might as well make her our mistress and marry separate people. Karban wants the cake, and to eat it too, and to fuck the cook. And he can, physically speaking, so why not try ?Also, are the Ironborn really a threat ? I thought that the King told them not to burn towns in westeros.
We need to answer one pressing question.Are we willing to use assassinations, blackmail or other underhanded and cruel means to get what we want ? Will we be willing to be the attacker with these methods ? Will we poison old Cargill if we marry Dalyna and he doesn't die soon enough ?
>>20233234It's not really about the Ironborn. Anyone that sees a threat in us (most prominently Oldtown, we are stealing trade from them, why do you think we got marriage proposals from the two houses that protect that city? They want to get us under control) could just hire somebody to put some fire to our city and our wealth goes up in ashes. My point is that our economy and our moneymachine is too centralized, we need to expand to make it impossible to decapacitate us with a single strike.
Karban is the man in charge of making big things from little. Veronica allows him to ply his moneymachine ways on a whole new scale, and puts him in reach of vast swathes of Arbor land.The Redwyne lass is an understandable choice, but it requires us to grow in power in a way that we just can't achieve before she's married off to somebody else. People say she's our key into the national level of intrigue, and I say posh to that, /the war/ and foreign trade are our keys into the nationals and getting our hands on Huge Tracts of Land are how we gear up to play in short order. She's also competing, closely, with the seasonal monsoons for 'most moisture soaked into underclothes' in Karban's presence, and our main man doesn't much mind her company either.Veronica is an opportunity that opens up many, many others. Redwyne is a dream, one that we practically need to marry Veronica to ever achieve!We can wait for the tourney, it's true, but I still say we're underestimating the value of V. She's not just the Girl Next Door, she's our way into a moneymaking machine so powerful we can outbid the Lions.
>>20233234Because if we had Dalyna as a mistress nothing could possibly go wrong with that plan. It won't work, she's the daughter of the fucking Redwynes, the most powerful bannerhouse of the Tyrells. She is going to be used for some politically advantageous marriage. We might be able to worm our way into an actual marriage with her, but mistress is imfuckingpossible. It's too big a risk, it could literally get us send to the fucking Wall. Currently what I want is to marry Veronica, when the Western Cargills die we help them reunite them under one Cargill banner, then when Lord Cargill bites it we'll have somewhere around a quarter of the Arbor under our control, more if you count the Wavebreak Islands. >>20233279I'm not all that against it, but I would hold off on it until we have the marriage done with and all of the Cargills together. We make it look like some accident, tragedy, getting old. We probably won't though, he's done right by us and we have a history of sticking by the people who are good to us. Honestly Dalyna is not as good a marriage as Veronica. She's pretty, we'll get influence and some other cool stuff. But honestly we aren't going to get anything from that marriage that we aren't already going to get by being Paxter's bro. He doesn't need to secure our loyalty with a marriage and if he isn't stupid he won't offer her to us. We don't need to tie our families together this way when we have other avenues for it. We're already going to become Paxter's closest friend and adviser, brother in law is just frosting and would cost us getting another slice of cake.
>>20233279How about we are willing to use them but would prefer not to.If a civil war were to erupt in Cargil Lands, The SpecOps suggestion might come in handy with us or just the Steel Guard breaking in tavern doors going "Hello Lads" and slaying contenders and heavy supporters of the Pretenders, and have them all consolidated under Veronica. Or the other one who is after Crane.In any case I I dont want the thread to devolve into murder central but at the same time lets not uselessly and pointlessly cripple ourselves.
>>20233383Well if we go the assassination route Daylna is the better prospect, if her brother has a accident in the near future, after dead is gone.Of course we would have to stabilise the Cargils under Crane and have a few more supporters for it to work, but is vastly more ambitious.Until then though, a bastard would be a good insurance policy, just in case we die.
>>20233383If we want "Operation West Cargills" to work we should marry Veronica before the Old man of the West bites it. Otherwise i guarantee stuff will get dangerous.Also i think we should stay legal as long as possible. We dont want Lord Cargill (East) to die fast if we have married Veronica. At least not before the War. We could use an experienced and blood bound Lord to manage our Holdings while we sail to Storms End.
>>20233426Won't work dude, Paxter has sons that would inherit. Also he has an Elder sister if i remember right, she is married to Lord Motherfucking Tyrell. Even In the best Case scenario the Tyrells just grab the Arbor for themselves.
>>20233426If Paxter died under the least bit suspicious circumstances, and it almost certainly would be due to him being young and healthy, there would be a massive shitstorm clusterfuck in the Arbor. The Tyrells would get involved in seeing who's in charge, metaphorical vultures would start picking at it, lots of the older houses here would be extremely fucking pissed about a young upstart from the Riverlands taking control, we'd get a lot of enemies and maybe a civil war on our hands. The blood spilled would be in greater volume than our famous wine.Also Paxter has children who would inherit.>>20233455We should be quick about it then, he's due to croak pretty soon and Neissen is building up for it himself, we need to beat him to the punch and get that marriage. Hopefully he'll last until the Tourney, we could ask for Veronica's hand then and hopefully have gotten more info on the "curse" by then. Also I agree on not killing Lord Cargill quickly, first it'd be suspicious, second we're not in a huge hurry.
>>20233383>Because if we had Dalyna as a mistress nothing could possibly go wrong with that plan.I didn't say that. Things can go wrong, of course, but I think it's worth it, and that we can deal with the risks.>>20233426I think Paxter already has male children.Veronica is the best option (after "both").
>>20233515About the Dalyna Mistress Szenario, it will likely not work. Its highly probable that she will be married on the mainland and that means we will not see her again anytime soon.
>>20233537Hm... I did not think of that. We should chat with apaxter about our plans to marry someone, how diffiicult it is to reach a decision, and ask (in a way that doesn't imply we're a candidate) what he plans for his sister.How old is she again ?
>>20233537Well then, secret paramour.
>>20233566Dalyna just turned 16 at the beginning of the quest, probably going to turn 17 or so by the Tourney. >>20233515We aren't going to get both, it's the sad reality of it.What would we get out of having her as a mistress? She's going to be married off to someone else as having her as a public mistress is impossible so there's no prestige there. All we get out of it is Dalyna liking us, which isn't all that important compared to Paxter already loving us and she already really likes us, and sex. If it gets out we'll be thrown at the wall so fast that we break the sound barrier. Even if we don't get thrown at the wall we'll seriously piss Paxter off which is not something we want. Stop thinking with your penis.Also marrying Dalyna would deprive our Lord of a very valuable resource which would in turn impact us negatively, given that he's going to take control soon he's going to need political bargaining chips and him not having her to marry off would be detrimental. >>20233622No, bad, that is a horribly risky idea. It's one thing to fuck whores, tavern wenches and the like, it's a whole different thing to fuck the Lady of a very powerful house who is to be married to someone else.
Hate to break up the current debate we're having, but I'd like to add a new question on the table: Do we know what Karban looks like?I mean, it doesn't really come into play now, but once we start aging and having kids (or bastards) we'll need a reasonable answer for that.Or we could just say they look like a, "Spitting image of their father."
I spent, literally, all of Monday night and most of Tuesday catching up on this quest. I can now say I am fully caught up, rested, and ready to participate.
>>20233638>What would we get out of having her as a mistress?Several things. First, mutual affection, sex and tenderness with a beautiful woman. And a bit of adventure (stop thinking with your metaphorical scepter and sword). Second, indirect influence on whoever she marries, and increased influence on her brother, since she can defend our interests without looking interested. Third, possibly a bastard that can serve us as an heir if all else fails.As for the risks, they exist. But they're not as dire as you think. After all, it is well known that the wife of that other lord of the Arbor is cheating, and no one got sent to the wall. And there's rumors that the Cargill children are illegitimate, and only the people who talked about it got punished.On another note, I wonder how platonic love for some other man's wife is accepted in westeros.
>>20234186Yes, it is known that the wife of that other Lord betrayes him. It was said that he couldnt keep her under control (we dont know why he doesnt just force her) and his Influence and reputation has suffered for it. Dalyna is going to marry a high Lord of equal power to the Redwynes, most likely.It is highly unlikely that her husband would stand for such a slight. We would also have betrayed Paxters trust and destroyed the honor of her sister, leading to him most likely hate us. If this thing gets out we are either banished for some time, loose land Paxter granted us, or are assassinated outright.We also need to factor in Veronicas Feelings in this. She is already unstable because she believes herself cursed, and she would be the one to enable our control of the Cargil land. If we bed another woman she will likely be VERY pissed and will start plotting against us.Also, i think we can get "mutual affection, sex and tenderness with a beautiful woman" just as well with Veronica. If you read the previous threads it was written that Karban could barely hold himself back from laying with Veronica, while we were quite comfortable with putting up with a naked Dalyna in our bedchamber.As for a bastard? Why not go for a legimate child first? Bastards are risky.
>>20234186Need I also point out that sex and, worse, pregnancy with a woman from a higher-tier House has traditionally caused nothing but trouble? Look at what happened with Lysa and Littlefinger.Banging the Lord's daughter only works if you're a higher rank then said lord, it gets sticky if you're equals, but downright dangerous if he's more powerful then you.
>>20234304Legitimate sons are risky too. Bastards have the advantage of not being the heir until you want them to. They're also a solution if the others die.We can get a lot from Veronica, but we can get more from both. And D has been said to be more beautiful (and I find her more fun to be around), she's just been taking less initiative for physical contact.Of course, all that is just a possibility I want us to keep in mind as we go along. If it appears impossible to pull off, I don't think we should force it. But if D continues to try to jump us after marrying V, and if it looks like we can keep it under wraps, it's worth consideration.
>>20234597Explain to me whats risky about legitimate sons, please. They dont strain your reputation, can be raised properly in the open, and ensure our line does not die out.Only thing i see would be them having a bad character, but that should be more or less curable by raising them properly.>inb4 tg fails as father....The risk of geting Dalyna as a Mistress is just not worth it in my humble opinion. We might be able to sway Paxter to a legimate marriage but that would mean leaving out on the various advantages Veronica give us. I'd rather keep Dalyna as a friend, she seems to have a high opinion of us since we are capable of keeping our urges in check.
>>20234644Agreeing, no need for a mistress that close. I'm not against having one, just not one that's literally right there and with so much behind it.Think of it as an importunity to broaden Karban's horizons, rather than risking it with someone he might actually have to care about.>>20233998...... <-- Is how I've kept him in my head. Don't click it if you don't want it burned in.
>>20234644Well the risk is mainly with them being incompetent or having a bad character. It's more likely than you think. They can strain our reputation by their actions and behaviour, while we're not responsible for a bastard's actions.There's also the risk of them being more competent or more ruthless, enough to take the power from us one way or another.If there's several brothers, rivalities can ruin our domain too. If the second one is more ambitious and talented than the oldest, problems arise.
I say we need a bastard. just in case things dont go well we can have him raised by a benefactor from the shadows and write a affidavit that he should inherit all this upon our death should we have no heir.This way in case we die, we can still play, even if we have no other children or whatever.A Backup Save for the just in case. We are Karban after all and will not let our imperium crumble with our death. We will have contingencies in triplicate.
>>20234721Possible, but we can deal with that, considering we are a second son ourselves i dont think we will make our second son feel left out. Still, you have far more control over a son than over a bastard since you cannot involve yourself in the raising of the later one. We might sire an ambitious and competent one that plots to overthrow us. We would have a harder time seeing it coming than with legitimate sons.
>>20234787He would have a much harder time overthrowing us than any legitimate son too. We have far more control over the ambitions of a bastard because our death doesn't automatically gives him our seat. It's much more secure.If we sire him to a commoner or to a poor noble, he won't have the ressources to overthrow us, while a legitimate son would. If we sire him to a rich noble, he'll have an easier time taking over his surrogate father and -assuming he's intelligent- will go for that. If he's not intelligent, he's not a threat.And we can involve ourself in the raising of a bastard. Secret is needed, but we can deal with that. We can chose how he's educated, who is taking care of him, and we can also easily keep an eye on him from afar.If we have several of them, and want to pick one to be our heir, we can choose the best one, while among legitimate sons we would have a hard time choosing anyone but the oldest.
>>20234786All the bastard needs to do is find out that we have given him everything if we have no heirs. Suddenly he might be the biggest threat to our heirs. Bad plan.
>>20234865The solution of course, is to marry Veronica yet make it an effort to keep her from getting pregnant, while siring bastards across the Arbor amongst commoners and low nobles? We could always legitimize the ones we like.That being said, getting our wife to pop out some daughters would be immensely useful as bargaining chips down the road.
>>20234887From the perspective of "lolextralife" it's a nice idea.From the perspective of "oh by the seven, there's another Karban somewhere" it's a terrible idea.The best part is, it's a bit moot for the moment, seeing as how we can't even agree on who to have the bastard with, let alone if she would agree/not get us killed.Perhaps this is a bridge best left for when we reach it?
>>20234905Sure. We can burn it when we get there.
>>20234900Better solution is to keep working the genetic lottery with our wife until she gives us a son, then stop there (whether it's the 4th child or the 1st.)
>>20234919And then PrincelyDM does an invisible roll during pregnancy and, given Karban's luck, will sire twins/triplets.All sons.
>>20234919I would suggest two sons. The heir-and-spare strategy. Probably wouldn't let the second out on his own like what happened with us, though. Give him a piece of good land to call his own, preferably away from our first son.Unless they grow up close to each other. Then the thought of 2 Karban brothers against the world...
>>20234929Well that would get complicated. How were tripletts handled in the middle ages? The first one out gets the heritage?
>>20234942I think we should consider them as one heir, and marry them with one woman.
>>20234956
>>20234956Not sure what to write in response to this. Yepp, you reminded me of the last member of house blackfyre. He had two heads.We shall top him.
>>20234942If Karban is careful he could keep the knowledge of which was the first one out a secret. From there it'd be a simple matter of seeing which one is the most fit to rule and give that one the rights to the realm.Most likely though it'd be either whichever one came out first, or silently "removing" the threat of future instability by way of killing the others. Triplets and twins, unless it's a SonxSisterxSister deal tended to be fairly messy affairs.In conclusion; I agree with heir and spare plus whatever daughters come in the mean-time, while siring a well-kept bastard here and there as added insurance. What if we sired a bastard while out on a trip to the mainland? It's out of the way enough to keep Arbor lords from bothering to hunt them down.
>>20235030I might be in the minority but i think it is evil and bad to cheat on your wife, so i am against siring bastards. Call me a prude or a moralfag, but neither Veronica nor Dalyna would deserve that.
>>20234942I read that in french tradition, the last one out is considered the eldest.
>>20235065Being a good guy in Westeros is a fast track to getting yourself killed. Karban's gonna have to get himself a bit dirty if he wants to advance to something beyond a petty lord.Also look at the plot for Game of Thrones itself; Ned (who was basically the most traditional "nice guy" ever and had a loving wife) sired a bastard, and it didn't actually cause any harm apart from a few awkward conversations between Jon and Catelyn.Bastards are an expected part of being a nobleman, and in fact I could've swore Robert or some other noble in the first novel said that "every nobleman worth his salt has at least one." Only nobleman off the top of my head that I can think of who didn't have a bastard was Stannis.If Dalyna/Veronica can't deal with the possibility of Karban spreading his seed around Westeros to make little investment Karbans, I'd have a feeling they might not be the best pick for a wife.
>>20235114I still think Jon Snow wasn't Neds bastard. The Targaryen Theory hasn't been disproven yet.Also, we will marry one of them anyways for the power (or another noblewoman). If they cannot deal with it we will have to deal with it.I just cant bring myself to support bastardsiring. It could lead to loadsatrouble from all kinds of directions.
I think that in general we shouldn't be too afraid of troubles.
>I still think Jon Snow wasn't Neds bastard. He aint. He's Neds sisters son/bastard. The question remains who his father actually is..Not that it matters.. ..as he's dead. Just kidding we all know Milesandre will resurect him.
>>20234942It was brought up in the books that Cersei came out before Jaime, and if she had been a boy then she would have been the heir. So yeah, first one out.
I don't see how a bastard could be better than a legitimize child. I mean a bastard suffers reputation even of he is , hurts the relation with the wife, and can hurt our own reputation with other lords specially the most pious ones. The legitimize child doesn't suffer from any of this and we only have to be a good father.
>>20235949>we only have to be a good father.We're not able to take good care of our wards, I wouldn't trust us to do a good job for an heir... And fathers aren't the only influence on young nobles.
>>20236073I dont think our heirs will hate us for killing their father and sending their brothers to the Black Watch. Other than that i guess your right though. Lots of Influences. We just need to make sure to subtly control the environment.
Look, if we get a bastard, we get a bastard.Lets not over-think this aspect. Unless you want said bastard to be with the unwed noble girl or the wife of another noble. That is just begging for trouble. - of course after we are dead even such a trouble case could inherit our lands as sole inheritor and allow us to continue the Karban line.
>>20236073We're not able to take good care of our wardsI think we are doing a pretty well job. They are depress because well you know, we are the man more or less responsible for driving the rest of their family into exile or dead. I mean look at Terrin he is turning up quite well.
>>20236180Why do we have the children of a dead/exiled noble, anyway? Everyone from Baratheon to Machiavelli agree that the only way to be absolutely safe from future trouble is to smash their heads in and be done with it.Are they useful in any way? Would anyone particularly object if we were to just kill them, or at the very least throw them to The Wall? Leave the title of ward to the children of vassals or the bastards of other noble families, let their noble family just die.No one won the Game of Thrones, or any sort of important or interesting political office by being a goody two-shoes, which is what Karban has been this entire time. He's heading for disaster if we don't start exploiting, blackmailing, or otherwise harming others to get our way.
>>20236605Look, I know we're not looking to become a Major House, or even someone that could prove to be a powerful force once things start (or if, since it could become non-canon after a bit) getting hairy, but we're at risk of being herded into a political pen by larger houses who are smart enough to realize we're not willing to step over "that line" to get what we want.
>>20236632>>20236605We are the tg hivemind. We would start cutting throats and blackmailing in a heartbeat if it were necessary. It hasn't been up to now. We are cultivating the image of a Goody two shoes as you call it, but that serves only to mislead the enemy. There is a) no need to kill the girls since they have no influence and will likely not get any influence in the future and b) it would actually make us look bad after we promised Damien in front of Paxter that we would make sure the Girls would live. We did that to make him give up on defending the castle and therefore conserve troops.
>>20236605>Why do we have the children of a dead/exiled noble, anyway?Because we're not Tywin and accumulation of power is not our only goal.>>20236632Yeah, I'm Karban's bleeding heart for the girls, but if anyone tries to play with that heart he's only liable to get splashed with blood.We will use carefully weighted amounts of exploitation, blackmail and cruelty at key moments, when it matters and is effective. No need to make a rule out of it or we'll find ourself as miserable and hated as a lannister. And we don't have hot siblings to comfort us.
>>20236925I think we have. We are even invited to the marriage of our sister.
>>20237026Who said she's hot ? But you're right, I should have added incestuous.
>>20236925>No need to make a rule out of it or we'll find ourself as miserable and hated as a lannister.And yet the Lannisters now basically control Westeros and have systematically annihilated any sort of major opposition. Even before that, they were a hideously wealthy family with useful political ties to basically everyone, including the King.The only major people who played the "nice but cruel when needed" in ASOIF were the Starks, and I don't need to point out specific examples to show where that's led them. It's basically impossible to get a position of prominence within a short period of time without ruining a few innocent lives.
Being evil for the sake of being evil isn't going to make us any more likely to survive, you know.We shouldn't be an idiot like Ned Stark, obviously, but sleeping around and generally acting like a moron is only going to get us killed faster.
>>20237207Yeah lets be what we have always being: efficient.
>As waves upon rockLOL, you DO realize that this implies the house is completely powerless right?A better motto would be "As a rock against the waves"
>>20237147Did you even read the books?At the end of Book 4, Westeros is ruled by the Tyrells, not the LannistersCersei is discredited forever, Tywin is dead, Tyrion fled Westeros forever, Jaime is crippled and somewhat reformed. Sure, Tommen sits on the throne, but he's 8. 8 fucking years old.The Lannisters were in charge exactly long enough to tear the country apart with their bullshit. I'm actually kind of puzzled how you managed to miss the fact that their strategy (ruthless dickheads) falls apart when they're in charge. Tywin was one evil fuck, sure, but he knew when to keep his head down and when to betray someone.
>>20237261I thought that at first, but you can twist it to mean other stuff. You can take it mean we're relentless and adaptable, as well.
>>20237304>The Lannisters were in charge exactly long enough to tear the country apart with their bullshit. I'm actually kind of puzzled how you managed to miss the fact that their strategy (ruthless dickheads) falls apart when they're in charge.Combination of only being halfway done with Book 3 and mis-interpreting things I see on the wiki.
>>20237147Ned Stark was an idiot who made a lot of bad decisions. He tried to be honourable all the time. I want to be nice everytime we can afford to. Big difference.For example, I would not promise Sansa to someone she doesn't know and might come to dislike, and I would not hesitate to support Renly in taking over King's Landing.And as a side point, I also want to use the power we accumulate to have an enjoyable and adventurous life. Were Cersei and Jaime happy with their lives at Robert's court, or after his death ?
>>20237261http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2114912/White-Cliffs-Dover-Thousands-tons-chalk-crash-sea-large-section-collapses.htmlThat's what was meant, I think.
>>20238984Point taken. In the end, Karban's looking to have the maximum amount of possible wealth to make his life (and the lives of those around him) comfortable before going into "wealth as a means to power."
