>>22070118
Fucking Christ.

>>22070118
>1 trillion= 1,000,000,000,000,000,000
That's a quintillion, bro.

>>22071502
No it isn't. It's a trillion.

>>22071502
Depends which system you're going by.

>>22071502
It's a trillion in long scale, a quintillion in short.

>>22070118
>740 McDucks

And that, my friends, is why it is incredibly important to limit allowable point expenditures in a GURPS game.

>>22071532
Wait, people still use Long Scale? I thought that'd vanished, like, half a century ago.

One million million milliard billion thousand trilliard hundred ten-trillion thousand thousand thousand thousand thousand billiard.

>>22071502
>>22071532
>>22071559
It's clearly a Gorillion dollars.

>>22071581
Probably the same reason why some people still use Imperial measurement system.

>>22070118
>740 McDucks

Fun fact: That much gold would allow you to assemble a sphere more than twice as large as the Martian satellite of Deimos.

Fun Statistics:

A steam rocket powered by a Decanter of Endless Water and heated to the operating temperatures of most steam engines would produce 27 kN of thrust, an exhaust velocity of 1450 m/s, and a specific impulse of infinity.

A single Decanter would be able to lift anything less than a ton into space.

>>22071714
>a specific impulse of infinity
What does that mean? My physics is rusty.

>>22071581
>implying miliard isn't superior to bilion.

>>22071803
"Specific Impulse" is a measure of rocket efficiency, equal to the thrust divided by the rate of propellant mass usage. Since the thrust is finite, but no propellant is used up, the specific impulse is infinity.

More specific impulse is good.

>>22071714

And that is my Artificer's next project. What temperatures do most steam engines usually operate at?

I kind of doubt that the Cauldron of Brewing would achieve it?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/c-d/cauldron-of-brewing

>Hot enough to boil salt water.
Let's assume that salt water is the highest concentration of sodium chloride soluble by water, or Brine.

>>22071894
Those were pretty sketchy calculations at the time I did them, and I have no real faith in the accuracy of that thrust number. Here's the math I used:

http://www.braeunig.us/space/propuls.htm
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/rktthsum.html

Can't figure out what number I used for the heat of a steam boiler, but apparently the most a standard industrial-revolution steam boiler could withstand was 250 psi, so the temperature should be calculatable with the Ideal Gas Law. (If you make the vessel out of adamantine or riverrine or mithril or something, then there should be no real pressure limit.)

File: 1355686828373.jpg-(147 KB, 500x400, Science WH40k.jpg)

Why was this topic the very first thing I saw when I rolled out of bed. My head hurts now.

Still, I do love breaking my games with SCIENCE. Like how if you take a Cyclops in Shadowrun and put every point possible into strength, he can use a bow to shoot arrows through tanks. Good times.

File: 1355686835928.gif-(3 KB, 250x390, Rocket Thrust Image 01.gif)

>>22071951
Alright, so the law for thrust of a rocket engine is

F= qVe + (Pe- Pa) * Ae

Where q is the mass flow, Ve is their ejection speed, Pe is the pressure of the exhaust gasses, Ae is the area of exit, and Pa is the pressure of the ambient atmosphere.

>>22071981

Now, we'll assume that this Decanter is on full blast, and we'll assume that the rocket is built in such a way that pressure inside the chamber is constant, so we know that the mass flow q is 18.93 kg/s

>>22072033
Furthermore, we will use that steam-engine figure given earlier and assume that Pc is equal to 250 psi, or 1.721 megaPascals.

>>22072046
>>22072033
>>22071981
Is /sci/ down?

>>22072109

What, have you never been to /tg/ before? This is how we figured out how many spiders can fit in a drow's vagina, and how we estimated the number of marbles that can fit in a man's ass.

>>22072109

Sush, you.

He's doing /tg/ science!

>>22072123
It's the nozzle factors that are really killing me. I'm not a rocketry expert, and I'm having trouble figuring out what nozzle design I should assume- because, obviously, propellant/oxidizer mix isn't a factor, nozzle designs are really the only important factor.

>>22072138
This looks helpful:

http://www.braeunig.us/space/sup1.htm

>>22072046
Ah! Found a superheated- steam table. If pressure is 1.721 MPa, then the temperature will be about 200 degrees C. So that gives us Tc as well.

>>22072249
And the Specific Heat Ratio of steam is 1.33. That gives me what I need to figure out the idea nozzle factors.

Doesn't the rocket still need fuel to turn the endless water into steam?

>>22072293
Cauldron of brewing bro.

>>22072303
Or a flaming weapon.

Or a portal to the Elemental Plane of Fire.

D&D Magic gives no shits about conservation of mass/energy.

>>22072128

Damn right he is, /tg/ science is awesome, were you on when we figured out that pencils make viable d6s?

>>22072264
Alright, so rounding to 1.7 MPa of chamber pressure and 200 degrees C of chamber temperature...

at the throat of the nozzle, the pressure is about 1 MPa and the temperature is about 172 degrees C. Almost to the point where I can work out the thrust.

>>22072400
Okay, so now to work out the ideal area of the nozzle. The molecular weight of steam is 18.02, and the area of the nozzle throat is given by

> At = (q / Pt) × SQRT[ (R' × Tt) / (M × k) ]

Keep going you glorious bastards.

>>22072443
So, the area of the throat for the optimal nozzle for this configuration is about

At = (19/1000000)*SQRT((8314 * 450)/( 18*1.33)

or 0.0075 square meters. Just a few equations to crunch and we'll have the thrust.

>>22072516

The hot gases must now be expanded in the diverging section of the nozzle to obtain maximum thrust. The Mach number at the nozzle exit is given by

Nm^2 = (2 / (k - 1)) × [(Pc / Pa)^((k-1)/k) - 1]

Do we want to calculate how well this engine will perform in SPESS, or at sea level? Pa is the ambient pressure, so I need to know what numbers we want.

this is the first thing I have seen on here, I never come to tg. this is one of the most awsome things ever as well. is /tg/ always like this?

>>22072575
Usually, except instead of rockets we're calculating anal capacity.

What the fuck is this "long form short form" bullshit? The way you determine what a number is is by counting the number of zeros that come after it.

>1 quintillion= 1,000,000,000,000,000,000
>1 trillion = 1,000,000,000,000

What kind of retarded-ass "form" adds six unnecessary zeroes to the end of a number, separated by commas like standard zeros are? That's some dumb shit.

File: 1355690283090.png-(119 KB, 1388x818, 1337738907747.png)

>>22072575

Yes. We can't help ourselves.

Once you're here, you don't need the other boards anymore.

>>22072559
Could we take the integral from space (0 Pa) to 1 atm (101,325 Pa)?

Well, sea level is good enough; since that's where we'd take off from.

>>22072378
Wait, what?

Could you post a screencap or something?

>>22072559
Calculate for both, it shouldn't be a big problem.
Kerbal space program: Eberron edition.

is there a place I can find all these game breaking things on? these are freaking awsome

File: 1355690723253.jpg-(23 KB, 674x501, 674x501_255483_128410_133(...).jpg)

>>22072647
I forget the proper name for them, but you can make dice of as many sides as you want so long as it's a cylinder-type object. Since your standard pencil has 6 flat sides (and pointed ends, ensuring it'll never land on either) it can be an effective 6D.

If you were to get your hands on a 3D printer, you could make your own dice of whatever weird combination of sides you need. 21-sided, 7-sided, whatever.

>>22072559
>>22072624

Calculating at sea level, so Pa is 0.1 megapascals.

In this case, the Mach number we want is about 2.5.

Now, we figure out the area of the nozzle exit:

Ae = (At / Nm) × [(1 + (k - 1) / 2 × Nm^2)/((k + 1) / 2)]^((k+1)/(2(k-1))

>>22072647
No need. Pick up a pencil. Count the number of sides. Put some dots on the sides corresponding to the numbers on a d6. Then roll the pencil.

>>22072693
Prisms. They're called prisms.

>>22072693
>>22072704
>>22072715
Wow... I never thought of that..

Awesome.

>>22072590
Yeah, I've never seen a trillion with that many zeros. OP is odd.

>>22072700

So, since At = 0.0075, Nm is about 2.5, and k is 1.33, Ae is equal to 0.003.

Wait, what? I think I fucked something up somewhere.

File: 1355691183907.jpg-(56 KB, 450x377, CrystalCasteOblivionDice7(...).jpg)

>>22072715
And with that magical missing word, Google Search suddenly brings up a whole slew of possibilities.

They also seem to go by the name "crystal dice," which actually makes sense.

>>22072590
>>22072752
I'm not sure you're following, it's the way we name numbers differently.
1,000,000,000,000,000=1 quadrillion (in short form) and 1 billiard in long form

1,000,000,000,000=1 trillion (in short form) and 1 billion in long form

1,000,000,000=1 billion (in short form) and 1 milliard in long form

1,000,000=1 million in short form and long form

Don't try to get into some kind of bullshit base-100 or base-1000 numerical semantics argument or I will fist everything.

>>22072739
If animu is anything to go by, the pencil D6 is a common trick in japan, where some students use them to pick out their response to multiple choice questions.

>>22072810
I've also seen them called "barrel dice."

>>22072810
Some of those are even antiprisms! It's sexy because the faces are triangular instead of rectangular.

I am now erect.

>>22072812
Yeah, and naming is retarded anyways, every time you go into an international discussion, it causes problems. Just use scientific notation. Everybody can tell how much 10^6 is .

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15041421/

Pencil thread for those who are curious.

>>22072804
Well, let's go with it. I'll throw together a spreadsheet for this shit or something when I'm done; make the computers do it.

Next, we can finally start generating the numbers that we plug into the basic thrust equation.

>>22072843
Unless you are like me, and can't calculate to safe your life.

>>22072812
>not using base 10
What the fuck? That "long form" is pointless, unintuitive, and retarded.

>milliard
>billiard
Oh, wait a second, those aren't typos, are they? You had to invent new names for numbers to fit into this form, but still use the old names for other numbers? That's just confusing. If some new system is going to make up new names for numbers, it shouldn't re-use old names for DIFFERENT numbers than they were.

Retarded as hell.

>>22072874
It's not new. Long Form is actually older than modern not-stupid form.

>>22072885
I'm not surprised. The stupider things are usually older.

>>22072804
In square meters? It would be around the size of A3 sheet, sounds kinda reasonable, considering how much (little?) water the decanter produces.

>>22072867

Alright, so the first variable in the thrust equation we haven't figured out is exhaust velocity, Ve.

>Ve = SQRT[ (2 × k / (k - 1)) × (R' × Tc / M) × (1 - (Pe / Pc)^((k-1)/k))]

k is, again, 1.33, R' is 8,134, Tc is the chamber temperature, so about 470 Kelvin, M is the molecular weight of steam, so about 18, Pe is equal to Pa (assuming maximum efficiency), so that's about 0.1 MPa, Pc is the chamber pressure, so about 1.7 MPa...

>>22072946
I was more confused by the fact that the throat appeared to be larger than the exit, which is kind of backwards. I'm throwing these calculations into a spreadsheet after I do this anyway, so y'alls can fuck about with how the Decanter engine performs at different temperatures, pressures, and altitudes.

>>22071868
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the water being exhausted the propellant mass being used? So that would be the amount of water the Decanter can pour in a specific time interval. Propellant is being used up, it's just replaced instantly and endlessly.

Shadowrun. I just have the 3e book, but I understand that this is similar in other editions.
> Difficulty number table
> Difficulty | Target number
> Simple | 2
> Routine | 3
> Average | 4
> Challenging | 5
> Difficult | 6-7
> Strenuous | 8
> Extreme | 9
> Nearly impossible | 10+

Consider the most useless person on the planet, one with all attributes set at 1. A 99 year old woman with Alzheimer's and cerebral palsy and a really bad odour. For this person to perform any routine task, she's going to fail 1/3 of the time. But now consider a perfectly average person, with 3's in all attributes. At something perfectly routine, he's still going to fail 1/27 of the time. And a lot of those times, he's going to critical glitch. Chopping vegetables for dinner in the Shadowrun world is an incredibly perilous activity.
> (It's also amusing that the average person usually has better attributes than the average starting runner.)

Okay, so maybe you say that rolls only need to be made when under pressure or doing something extreme. Fine, let's ignore the fact that there are numbers for those easy tasks. Let's look at the other end of the spectrum. Let's have our people do something nearly impossible. We'll ask them to lift and overturn a car, and assign this a difficulty of 10: nearly impossible.

Our utterly useless, frail old lady is going to succeed, using her one die, 1/12 of the time! Meanwhile, our average person is going to succeed 1 - 11^3/12^3 = 1 - 1331/1728 = 397/1728 = 23% of the time!

>>22073036 (cont.)
So look around the next time you're in a restaurant or classroom or anywhere, and ask yourself: are 1/4 of these people capable of lifting a car right at this moment? And the next time you're in a hospital or old age home, ask if 1/12 of those people are really capable of the same feat.

Things get even more ridiculous when you start dealing with skills. The example for a skill level of 1 is "someone shows you how to load, hold, point, and fire a gun." What this means is that, after being shown how to hold a gun, you will be able to perform "nearly impossible" feats of shooting on 1 out of every 12 shots.

>>22073036
Oh wow.
That's why "roll above" is the only sensible system.

File: 1355692349095.jpg-(179 KB, 1194x1298, Hartmundus the Baker.jpg)

Something from the first FATAL Friday thread. No, it doesn't have anything to do with sex.

>>22072874
Okay, it's still all base 10. Don't get too excited.

the point of the milliard and billiard, as i see it, are to simply stretch out the naming so that, by the time you're trying to remember that the next power of 1,000 in short form is said "Quattordecillion" or whether you should be saying "Septillion" or "Heptillion" after "Sextillion" (or is it "Hextillion"?) you're just changing the -ion to an -iard to talk about the same numbers without having to tax your knowledge of antiquated numeral pronunciation...or something.

I'm not trying to say it's better or that these are good reasons to change the way you talk about numbers. Hell, after a while, scientific notation is the only actually practical metric to use...

polite sage for stupid discussion in spite of awesome /tg/ science.

>>22072976
Alright, so exhaust velocity equals 1110.

Next, finally, the thrust!

F = q × Ve + (Pe - Pa) × Ae

q is the mass flow, so (asuming steam or water isn't building up in the boiler) that's equal to the amount of water coming out of the decanter - about 19 kg/s.

Ve, which I just worked out (assuming I didn't screw anything up), is 1,110 m/s.

Pa and Pe are the same, assuming maximum efficiency, so they cancel out and I guess I didn't even need to work out exit area at all, goddamnit, because it's being multiplied by zero.

In that case, assuming I didn't screw anything up, the thrust of a Decanter rocket is q * Ve, or 1110 m/s times 19 kg/s.

So that's about...

(drumroll please)...

Twenty-one kilonewtons.

>>22072874

Are you retarded or just dense? Both long scale and short scale are base 10. They just use different exponentials in naming.

A 10^6 is a Million either way, but Long Scale advances the -illion every ^6 instead of every ^3, where they use -illiard instead. A short-scale Billion is thus 10^9, whereas a long-scale Billion is 10^12 (and long-scale 10^9 is a aforementioned Milliard).

File: 1355692707153.jpg-(581 KB, 2036x1270, Mind Worm Psionics2.jpg)

Just how deadly ARE mind worms, really?

Find out here.

>>22073198

Alright, so. What does this mean we can get into orbit? Assuming your fantasy setting is taking place on a spherical planet pretty much similar to our own, and assuming you're launching pretty close to the Equator, and assuming your day is 24 hours, you need about 10 km/s of Delta-V to get into orbit.

>>22073214
How about we just put this to Engineering notation, and call it a day.

>>22073198
So it gives us 1:1 thrust to lift ratio for a rocket that weights 2tonnes? And it only gets better the higher we get? And we don't need to pack this shit with fuel but we can basically pack 2 tonnes of cargo into this shit? 20 people and some stuff to keep them alive up there? I'm sure NASA would love it.
Not to mention you can strap on more decanters without big change to rocket's mass.
Shit's insane.

>>22073282
However, because calculating delta-v requires taking the log of the wet mass/dry mass, and since there's no difference between wet mass and dry mass, this is pretty much useless. However, because we can burn literally forever without running out of fuel, then what this means is that as long as we can lift it off the launchpad, we can get it into orbit. Thus, anything weighing less than 21 kN can be put into any orbit we want, as long as we're willing to wait a bit.

>>22073443
Oh, it gets even better.

Three words: Bag. Of. Holding.

By abusing extradimensional spaces, we carry all of our cargo in bags of holding.

>>22073444
>>22073525

So placing these into an artificed vessel that had endure elements on it marked up to +30 spell levels, and then with the proper supplies, and contingency spells, 300 decanters of water could theoretically propel a 300 ton self contained atmospheric, false gravity supplied biodome into space.
With that in mind, that would be a fuck awesome setting.

>>22073525
Fill the bag of holding to maximum capacity from the decanter of endless water. Open the bag at the same time you open the decanter. 21kN is for babies.

Okay. How much will this spaceship cost, and at what level will a party be able to buy and make one?

>>22073525
So, the rocket's got 21 kN of thrust, right? And it needs to be accelerating at about 10 m/s upwards to actually get off the ground, so it can only weigh about 2100 kg.

Now, let's assume 10% of that is taken up by structural shit, rockety stuff, all that jazz. That means we can carry 1890 kilograms worth of cargo.

A single Type IV bag of holding weighs 27.2 kg, so a single Decanter can carry a bit less than a maximum 70 bags of holding.

In other words, by filling our cargo with Bags of Holding, the rocket can actually carry FIFTY-TWO TONS of cargo in the bags.

>>22073008
your kind of right and kind of wrong, if you look at the water being exhausted then the equation is wrong, but if you view the decanter itself as the propellant mass as would arguably be more logical then the equation is correct and the specific impulse is infinity as the propellant mass can never be used up.

>>22073552
Alrighty. A Decanter costs about 9000 gp. How much does a flaming weapon or portal to the Elemental Plane of Fire cost?

>>22073627
>portal to the Elemental Plane of Fire
What, you mean like a Gate? Going off the 3.5e PHB (or was it the DM's Guide?), getting a wizard to cast a level 9 spell for you is certainly going to cost more than 9,000 gp.

>>22073596
In other words, by spending a fuckton on Bags of Holding, the ship can actually have twice the payload capacity of the Space Shuttle.

>>22073627
Moderate evocation; CL 10th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor and flame blade, flame strike, or fireball; Price +1 bonus.

So to place that onto a weapon, roughly around 2000 gold.

File: 1355694411840.jpg-(364 KB, 1254x1288, How to play Solar Ex2.jpg)

I'll post a couple Exalted onces. They're not really SCIENCE!, but just ways you can throw heavy things or be the scariest watchtower sentry in Creation.

>>22073036
isn't there something where a police chase in shadowrun becomes impossible to escape when a third party is introduced, and the third party is an elderly couple in a golf cart?

>>22073642
We have no idea how hot that burns, so let's say we need five of those to get it this hot for a nice round ten thousand. How much would the mundane ironworking for the pressure vessel cost, do you think?

We're currently at 19000 gold for the magical components of a single Decanter engine.

>>22073596
One TEU is about 40 m^3. Gold is ~20 gcm^-3. So that is About 80 kilograms per TEU. We can have 650 TEUs of gold, if my maths is correct (unlikely)

>>22073188
Hey, this isn't stupid. I'm learning more on this one 4chan thread than I did in the past week of school.

All right, now let's assume this is a standard structure we are pushing into orbit, and to survive the hazardous ascent, it needs to be able to withstand exit and re-entry of the atmosphere. How would this be approached, and what would it's final weight, cost, and volume be for life support/storage. We will assume that using magic dickery, that a trick to supply artificial gravity has been supplied and implemented.

>>22073692
That's just for one thermopile class heater though. In my opinion, it would be much easier to use a ramped up version of Heat metal and then use a metal sheath for the decanter, and then monitor the heat using a cold junction to the sheath and a wire running to the inside from the outside to make a Thermocouple, and then use a magical circuit to display what it's temperature is to monitor it's efficiency and therefore prevent engine damage. Shit, that's another issue, the decanter can still be destroyed. How will we shield out heating element from the outside as well?

>>22073547
It's too bad you can't place Bags of Holding full of endless water inside Bags of Holding. That output would be... yeah, I'm not even going to pretend to know.

>>22073742
Maximised Greater Protection from Fire? Is that a thing?

>>22073742
>Hazardous ascent

Here's the thing: Thanks to our literally infinite supply of thrust, we don't actually have to go up at any normal acceleration. For most of the time in-atmosphere, our ascent could very well take place at practically walking pace.

As long as we're willing to sacrifice the time it takes to wait for this thing to fully accelerate, it can be as sedate as it needs to be as long as it can acquire sideways acceleration while overcoming gravity.

>>22073742
I should also state I know that thermopile would be the wrong term in this statement, but it's the nearest thing I can think of to put this into comparison for myself.

>>22073765
I'm not sure if that offers protection in degrees, or just + to saves. I know if we used crystal as a heat shield, it should last long enough but that would shatter too easily. Ceramic exists in d and d, right?


>>22073763
You COULD however, rig that up to use Mercury. OH SHIT. For that matter, using artifice, would it be possible to make a Decanter of endless Mercury? FUCK 21kV. 1SG IS FOR PUSSIES.

Mind you, druids would throw a SHIT FIT, but...

>>22073819
Well, that's pretty damn awesome, but with how the Decanter works, wouldn't be efficient unless you made it not work on stages, but on a 0-100% scale, and as far as I know, there is no way to control a decanter in that manner. If you COULD though, HOW would you do it? Verbally? Could you rig up a circuit that could electronically control it? 4-20mA?

>>22073856
Valve. Keep it on Geyser all the time, and control how much water goes to the boiler and how much is destroyed or vented or teleported or shoved back into the Elemental Plane of Water or something by varying how open the valve is.

Bags of holding are probably the single most broken thing in D&D.
Take a bag of holding and fill it with water. 680kg of water. Then turn it inside-out above your enemy. Look as he is crushed under the weight of fucking 680l of water suddenly falling on his head. I wonder how long it takes for a bag of holding to spill out its content.

>>22073914
What's the easiest way to make something reliably fly in a specific direction in D&D though?
You have to /get/ the bag there first.

File: 1355695667158.jpg-(248 KB, 1204x1070, Feats of Strength, emphas(...).jpg)

>>22073670
If you can combine these with throwing Charms, you can start hurling donkeys over 50 miles at Essence 4. You could take catapult ammunition and be more accurate and have a longer range than the catapult meant to fire the ammo.

If you interpret the range of the object you're hurling as a range bracket like a normal weapon (that is, a (Strength+Athletics) of 6 lets you throw at 6/12/18 yards for higher penalties, instead of a flat 6 yards), you could be throwing things almost across countries. Certainly from one city to another.

With the Triple-Distance Attack Technique that changes range to miles, and with Headstones Flung Like Pebbles/Hill-Hurling Method, you could be throwing hippopotamuses FURTHER than you could throw javelins. Note that you can throw heavy things just as far as you can throw light things -- if you've got the Charms and stats, you can hurl camels just as far as men, and just as accurately.

>>22073904
Good idea. Turn the decanter instead from an engine into the supply, and then Throttle with a valve. That can be controlled with analog, if not simply by hand inside the vessel. Better part of that is, if we go about the design right, multiple valves can be used to create a high grade exhaust, and then shielding the elements is no longer an issue, just making sure the piping for this design is able to withstand the pressure the decanters will be supplying, and then if it can handle shifts in velocity.

Fuck, should I start drawing a PID of this?


/tg/, are we really making a spelljammer without making a spelljammer?

>>22073742
Here's what you'd need for life support:

>Bottle of Air- the bottle is always completely full of fresh air. With a pump, you could pressurize the entire capsule from one. Costs 7,250 gp and weighs 2 lbs.
>Some way to temperature-control the capsule (any ideas?)
>Bag of Holding full of food (2,500 gp, 15 lb)
>Pipe going to the Decanter to provide endless fresh water on demand

There. Everything you need to live for quite a while, for about 10000 gp. If you want enough food to last forever, splurge on a Sustaining Spoon (enough gruel for four people, forever- 5400 gp).

>>22074076
Spelljammers allow you to survive in space, and indeed assume space exists. This is simply an engine the druids can agree with.

>>22074076
So far we've determined that for the magical component of the engine and for life support, you need 29000 gp. How much will we need for the hull, navigation instruments, and the various engine plumbing?

>>22071980
without breaking the bow? how?

>>22074030
I must admit, I laughed.
Also, bottle of air. When it space it would become a perfect engine. In fact it isn't said if it has any limits on how much air it can produce - so in vacuum it would be a problem to make it LESS effective to not kill the crew with acceleration.

>>22074087
Isn't there an item that simplifies all that? A Ring of Sustenance or somesuch?

File: 1355696096440.jpg-(78 KB, 706x426, GURPS[1].jpg)

We tried to do science to make a katana cut through a T-72 in GURPS.

Short version: You can't.
Longer version: You'd have to have the strength of an elephant, an extremely well-crafted and very large (or very dense) blade, and you need some good attack rolls. With those, you could pass through the armor of some parts of the tank. But your sword will shatter and you wouldn't do anywhere near enough damage to inhibit its function.

>>22074149
Yes, but the only difference in cost is that we don't need the pipe to the decanter.

>>22074186
Wait, no, whoops. Yeah, go with the ring instead of the bag of holding fulla' food. Doesn't need refilling.

Total Life Support Cost: 9,750 gp, plus however much the temperature-control system costs.

>>22074087
A hero's feast table or a table enchanted with create food would also work. But not a pipe from the decanter. We don't want to offer any sort of way that an engine failure will fuck over the survival of the adventurers. A separate tank with another decanter would work fine.

>>22074111
Engine plumbing cost depends all on the metal used. Adamantine would be what I would recommend, but that would be almost impossible to get in the quantity that would be required. Elven steel might work, Dwarven crafted Dark iron definitely would. Artificing the pipes to withstand heavy and sudden changed of pressure and temperature. Navigation would rely on divination magic. No need to complicate this with mechanical instruments when Divining position is accurate, and easy to come by. The hull is still in question. Using Rope trick to form individual rooms, and suppying those rooms as living quarters/storage would simplify things tremendously. They couldn't have water piped to them, but with an item that creates water on demand, cheapens that up as well.

>>22074202
I based the engine calculations off of the pressures and temperatures of a mundane locomotive boiler. We will probably not need any especially fancy metals.

If we make the pipes out of Mithril or Adamantium, they could survive any kind of pressure we put it through without breaking, but that would increase the cost by a lot. That said, if we had some high end dwarf forged steel it should be able to survive this.

Also, isn't their an item that costs very little gold but has a permanent endure the elements(which lets you be okay in incredibly hot or cold environments) that would allow you to be in space without dying from cold?

Or we could just have a heatsink setup to the steam pipes that could bring warmth back to the cockpit.

>>22074230
Warming the cockpit isn't a problem. The issue with space is /cooling/ the cockpit.

>>22074241
I'll look in the ultimate srd for glacial spells. I know there's on in there that focuses on climate control.

>>22074199
Does anybody have the character wealth/level table? I want to figure out how feasible building this shit is.

Please tell me someone's archived this thread. The Greyhawk Air and Space Administration cannot be forgotten.

>>22074241
Boom.
Chill Metal

Transmutation [Cold]
Level: Drd 2 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: Metal equipment of one creature per two levels, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart; or 25 lb. of metal/level, none of which can be more than 30 ft. away from any of the rest Duration: 7 rounds Saving Throw: Will negates (object) Spell Resistance: Yes (object)

Chill metal makes metal extremely cold. Unattended, nonmagical metal gets no saving throw. Magical metal is allowed a saving throw against the spell. An item in a creature’s possession uses the creature’s saving throw bonus unless its own is higher.

A creature takes cold damage if its equipment is chilled. It takes full damage if its armor is affected or if it is holding, touching, wearing, or carrying metal weighing one-fifth of its weight. The creature takes minimum damage (1 point or 2 points; see the table) if it’s not wearing metal armor and the metal that it’s carrying weighs less than one-fifth of its weight.

On the first round of the spell, the metal becomes chilly and uncomfortable to touch but deals no damage. The same effect also occurs on the last round of the spell’s duration. During the second (and also the next-to-last) round, icy coldness causes pain and damage. In the third, fourth, and fifth rounds, the metal is freezing cold, causing more damage, as shown on the table below.
Round Metal
Temperature Damage
1 Cold None
2 Icy 1d4 points
3–5 Freezing 2d4 points
6 Icy 1d4 points
7 Cold None

Any heat intense enough to damage the creature negates cold damage from the spell (and vice versa) on a point-for-point basis. Underwater, chill metal deals no damage, but ice immediately forms around the affected metal, making it more buoyant.

Chill metal counters and dispels heat metal.

There's a lvl 2 spell that would easily do it.
It's ambient and not direct, though.

>>22074281
PC Level* Wealth
2 1,000 gp
3 3,000 gp
4 6,000 gp
5 10,500 gp
6 16,000 gp
7 23,500 gp
8 33,000 gp
9 46,000 gp
10 62,000 gp
11 82,000 gp
12 108,000 gp
13 140,000 gp
14 185,000 gp
15 240,000 gp
16 315,000 gp
17 410,000 gp
18 530,000 gp
19 685,000 gp
20 880,000 gp

What about really long voyages? Would it be cheaper to use Suspended Animation, or would a system involving timed release of Flesh to Stone and Stone to Flesh potions be superior?

File: 1355696633512.jpg-(87 KB, 640x480, 1344365889666.jpg)

Eh, you guys have fun with that.

I'm going to be over hear telling stories of adventure and intrigue with my bros and our girlfriends. No higher math or mountain of sourcebooks required.

>>22074321
Whatever happened to the 1Toddler system?

>>22074317
So so far, everything we've calculated is well within the reach of a single Level 9 PC, or an adventuring party of four Level 6 PCs.

If your party pooled its funds, you guys could fuck off into space by Level 6.

>>22074365
If the group had a master as well, it raises the cost, but also raises the masterwork bonus.

A quality ship would be about level 13 for a single PC, or a group of 4 lvl 9's.

The time it would take would be roughly around a few months to complete. assuming all party members do nothing but work on the ship as a craft check.

>>22074087
Even better - Genesis spell.
7850 square meters for your disposition. With soil and air and artificial light.

Can you determine how time works in a demiplane?

>>22074321
>Eh, you guys have fun with that.
Thanks we will. You come back with a story, y'hear? I haven't read a storytime today.

>>22074436
Yeah, but Genesis is horrendously expensive. Seems a bit easier just to Rope Trick or Portable Hole up some extra living space.

RAW doesn't say anything about altering time, but if you were able to, it completely eliminates the suspended-animation problem for slower-than-light star voyages.

>>22074436
1:1 with material plane.
Problem is that's an expensive spell.

And I just got called into work. Someone Archive this! It's basically done however, /tg/ has just made a spaceship buildable just into heroic level.

>>22074436
Or we could use unguent of timelessness; cheap as dirt and we need only 1/365th of food/water/whatever we would need otherwise.

This is so perfect for my campaign, /tg/, you have no idea. I'm anticipating my party fucking off into the stars soon (getting into orbit won't be an issue for them because the spacefaring Dorfs are paying them to quell a slave riot that's been delaying the reconstruction of the moon).

I've got a few ideas for crazy places they'll end up, the most developed of which is a shipwreck planet inhabited by rednecks. Every year they have a coming-of-age ritual in which young rednecks try to cobble together semi-spaceworthy Spelljammers out of the remains of the many derelict ships on the surface of the planet, and then race.

In that spirit, what are some delightfully ghetto ways to make space travel even cheaper, with no regards to safety?

CURRENT PARTS LIST FOR S.S. SPESSWIZARD:

Engine: (may use more than one)
>Decanter of Endless Water (9000 gp)
>Five or so flaming items (10000 gp)
>Elven-steel tank and nozzle
>Valve and a way to get rid of excess water for thrust control
>Gimbals for thrust vectoring
Cost of magical components: 19000 per engine
Cost of material components: ?

Crew Area:
>At least one Bottle of Air (7250 gp)
>Air Pump
>Rope Trick rooms
>Rings of Sustenance: 1/crew member (2500 gp)
>Rod of Heat Metal and Rod of Cool Metal

Structural:
>Elven-steel airtight hull
>Feather Fall spell for re-entry

Navigation:
>A good telescope and maybe a golem. Speaking as a KSP player, some way to calculate velocity would also be really nice.
>Assorted gubbins for engine control

>>22074626
Fuck life support; go for Protection from Elements and huffing out of a Bottle of Air.

>>22074749
Is there a DC for environmental hazards from space?

>>22074692
Fun Fact: At the highest weight which still allowed it to take off from Earth, the ship could reach Alpha Centauri in just 3.5 years shiptime (accounting for time dilation.)

>>22074780
Cold beyond extreme? Absolute zero? That's in a book somewhere, I'm sure.

Constant exposure to radiation? Random space debris hitting you at extremely high velocities? Not sure about those.

>>22074819
Unsurprisingly, 4e is not a treasure trove for matters like this. I'll see if I can rig up something from 3.x.

>>22074819
The real issue isn't cold. Space is an insulator; you will cool down if you're in it and emitting no temperature, but it'll take a while. Your real issue is overheating- direct, unfiltered sunlight is brutal, and you'll slowly overheat just from your body's waste heat. Vacuum's an insulator.

Mostly you've got to worry about suffocation, low pressure, and heat damage.

So, /tg./ We've successfully designed a goddamn spacecraft which is within the limits of a heroic-tier party's wealth.

My question: What do we call it? I propose the TGS Super Soaker.

>>22074819

Space isn't actually cold, it has no temperature.
The vacuum does other bad shit to you though.

>>22074842
>>22074842
>>22074842

Of those, which should even have Fortitude saves, and which should just deal direct damage?

>>22074873
TGS?

>>22074937
TeeGee Ship.

>>22074950
That's dumb. I prefer naming them after games or gaming companies. Like SJG or DND.

>>22074988
Well, what would you suggest? The Gygax-Class SPACE WIZARDS?

>>22074873
Grognard-class spaceship.

>>22075007
We can't tarnish his name with our ghetto-ass ship. If it's a ____-Class ship, it ought be named after a /tg/-famous minmaxer or other mechanically-clever fellow.

>>22075007
The S. S. My Sides.

>>22075068
Oh my god, that's beautiful.

>>22071894
Why not use an radiator to pump heated medium into the vaporisation chamber, the heat of which is supplied by a fire elemental at the other end of the radiator? With enough surface area, proper valve timing, and a large enough elemental you could cause ambient vaporisation in the main chamber as the propellant passes through, creating a high-pressure steam rocket with infinite operating time.

>>22073825
Alternate space program still uses the Mercury rocket project only the mercury never stops

>rollan

>>22073525
Or hook it up to a portal at station control, with a big enough portal you can move anything into orbit from a tiny rocket

The real issue:

How do you navigate?

>>22075407
Know True North will always giving you a bearing to the home planets North Pole.

>>22075502
* Know Direction

>>22075407
That rather depends on whether the campaign world is heliocentric or geocentric.

>>22075407
The real question is: How do we arm ourselves?

File: 1355701782712.jpg-(28 KB, 202x204, 1342469658793.jpg)

Hate to be that guy who pisses in the lemonade, but with the silly amount of magic available in deeandee, wouldn't it be much simpler to reach orbit by use of some kind of fly or levitation spell?

>>22075550
"Photon Torpedoes" - Wands of Magic Missile

"Phasers" - Disintegrate.

For ship-to-ground weapons, bring along a Bag of Holding full of something heavy and heat-resistant. Dump them out of the bag while in orbit. Bingo, 250 lbs of kinetic death.

>>22075543
40K isn't Emprah centric, but they seem to be doing quite well with his beacon.

Without triangulation all we'd get is one line of position, but at least you know your Wizardnauts will get back home.

>>22075595
A single bag-of-holding full dropped from orbit will get you about one and a half times the boom the boom of a Tomahawk cruise missile.

>>22075561
shh
spess ships are happening
also this will allow a biosphere to be launched

>>22075642
One Type III bag of holding (costing 7,400 gp) full of something dense and heat-resistant, if dropped from geostationary orbit, would equal about the boom of a milligram of antimatter meeting a milligram of matter, or about one-hundredth of a Hiroshima.

>>22075770
It would also equal about the yield energy of the ATBIP, the largest non-nuclear bomb ever designed.

Looks like somebody archived this shit.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html

Go upvote this thread. The S. S. My Sides must be remembered.

File: 1355704389084.jpg-(52 KB, 250x318, Ernest Smile.jpg)

>>22073825
Would it be possible to have some Bags of Holding trail behind the rocket to catch the mercury fumes?

...Wait a minute. Assuming you could catch the fumes, could you then condense the fumes back into mercury and re-use it as fuel?

INFINITE ENERGY THROUGH BAGS.

>>22076159
i would imagine that, if enough fumes/vapor were collected, it would begin to condensate back into liquid

>>22076182
whoops, didnt mean to sage there, also. i dont think the condensation would be efficient, since some would be lost, i believe

>>22076268
True, heat loss will always be a problem. But depending on how efficient the bags are, I'd wager you could have at least an 80% efficiency rate from the fuel. That's amazing.

>>22076359
But we already have infinite fuel.
And goddamn bottle of air that gives us insane acceleration in vacuum.
We really don't need anything else.

>>22075032
SS Pun-Pun
for your low level campaign breaking needs

>>22073673
>>22073104
>>22073055
>>22073036

Except, and this is significant, the Shadowrun rulebook SPECIFICALLY SAYS that skill checks are only made for non-routine activities which the character does not do as a matter of course.

>"The gamemaster should not require a player to make a test when the action is something that the character should be expected to do without difficulty. For example, if a character is driving downtown to buy soymilk and NERPS, no test is necessary. If she’s suddenly found herself in a car chase, however—perhaps she ran a red light and a Lone Star officer is in pursuit—then it’s time to break out the dice."

EPIC