>>25724950

Here we go.

Was worried you might not run it today.

>>25724950
Yay, Iron and Hate.

And character building...

>>25725029
>And character building...

I find that to be an interesting part of the quest.

>>25724950

4chan not letting you post, OP?

Or internet connection fucking up?

>>25725064
I love that part. Just you know, IRON AND HATE! Doesn't seem to imply character building.

>>25724950

Your Steward, For Korbis, shuffles into your solar, with your latest returns.
"Will, the roads are clearing up now that all the lords and ladies are clearing out. Luckily, it seems that some of their knights were a little aggressive on the bandits on the road. Combined with your push for magistrates and officers, we've got a good surge of order coming to our lands. These people are starting to remember who's fuckin' boss around here!"
He smiles.
"Anyway, that's the big one. otherwise, the gold mine's up and running, Tor's town and tower are on the way, and Clamon's sept is getting the groundwork laid. Everything's about how you left it, sire."
He clears his throat before speaking.
"However, sire, it's been mentioned that the captains are a little edgy, so to say. Not nervous, or afraid. No, more...well, sir, you
know the sergeants' lament."

You do, of course. All sergeants are like mushrooms: kept in the dark and fed bullshit. Your captains are no doubt wondering what your plans are now.

>Call a meeting?
>Inform Korbis they have nothign to worry about
>Other
(stats coming soon.)

>>25725119
>>Call a meeting?

We've been consistent on actually talking to our men, keep it up.

>>25725118

IRON AND HATE with a side order of intelligent, emotional character building.

(I think that's what we use to make the character. Iron for the bricks, Hate for the mortar)

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Here we go!

>>25725119
>Call a meeting?

(Though I forget what it'll be about.)

>>25725139
Sound's good.

Eventually we'll have IRON AND HATE with a side order of mostly well adjusted and loving husband quest.

>>25725119

Let's get sum of dat decision making going.

>>25725119

Yeah, may want to go ahead and call a meeting to let them know whats up.

>>25725171

By which I mean call a meeting. Fuck I forgot to type it.

STATS:
DEFENSE: 12
INFLUENCE: 51
LANDS: 15
LAW: 35
POPULATION: 37 (looks like you had some people stay after the tourney)
POWER: 2
WEALTH: 64

HOLDINGS
Iron Mine w Mining Complex, Smelter
Marketplace
Artisan Blacksmith
Blacksmith’s Guild
Port w/Dock
Gold Mine
Maester: Arban, of Dorne.

MILITARY
1 Elite Personal Guard
1 Elite Guerillas
1 Elite Special
1 Elite Cavalry
2 Elite Infantry (t)
1 Elite Archers (t)
1 Veteran Infantry
1 Veteran Garrison
2 Green Infantry
1 Trained Support
Fieldable strength: 940 men

2 Banner Houses
House Clamon (Contains only a partially built sept at the moment, a small Landed Knight)
House Tor (Contains a partly built Tower and mid construction Small Town)

LANDS
Castle with Small Town In a Mountain region
A Hill Region with River access, where your Port and dock stand.

And here's PrincelyDM's expanded Wealth Holdings, which I am slowly attempting to add to: http://pastebin.com/46BLMQ3M

Things you should know!
-Your sister disapproves of you, having been swayed from hate by earlier rhetoric.
-Your family is currently staying at your castle at your request.
-Oberyn Martell entered your home, wounded your man, and rode free. This shall not stand.
- Tywin wants you to become Hand of the King.
- You have recently married an attractive and intelligent woman, whom you pleased quite thoroughly on your wedding night.
- At present, solely your wife is aware of Tywin's desire for you to become heavily involved in the royal affairs.
-Your maester is researching gifts for Lord Arryn, and has suggested funds might be well spent on a library.

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>>25725209

>whom you pleased quite thoroughly on your wedding night.

>>25725135
>>25725155
>>25725171
>>25725178
>>25725197

"We forge weapons here, Korbis, not grow fungus. IF the men want to know what I plan, I'll tell them. Call them up."

"I'll call the captains and the maester, Will. Shall I call...Lady Alyssa as well?"

You'll give him this, for all that Korbis disliked the idea of you marrying, you didn't think he'd suggest including her on captains' meetings so early. Looks like old dogs can learn new tricks.

>Of course, these are her plans as well as mine.
>Certainly, I hide nothing from my wife.
>No, I would not so quickly drag her from wedded joy to bureaucratic tears.
>No, Keep it among us boys until they warm to her.
>Other

>>25725209
Right, so we have a lot of money so lets spend some of it. The things that sound good to so far are:
Foremen for each of our mines (This doubles the mine benefit)
Expansion to the Iron mines
Jeweler (to do stuff with the gold)
Library (because books are good)

>>25725278
>>Of course, these are her plans as well as mine.

Lady Wife has proved just as smart if not smarter than us.

>>25725170
>with a side order of mostly well adjusted and loving husband quest.

I can't wait until we have kids.

We'd be the most protective, scary and caring father in the Seven Kingdoms.

>>25725278
>Of course, these are her plans as well as mine.

She's smart, and we might need her insight.

>>25725209
So how do banner houses work?

Do we just give Clamon and Tor money for them to do things?

>>25725309
OH god. Just imagine the first suitor trying to get our daughters hand. Or the second or ...

>>25725278

>[X] Certainly, I hide nothing from my wife.

Let's keep her in the loop, we've already told her about the plan with Tywin, no reason to keep her out of this.

>>25725278

As much as I want to include her, right now we need to settle the men into the idea that we got married. One last meeting with just us and them, and at this meeting we tell them to start expecting that she will be involved in these affairs when appropriate.

Also, we need to have the leader of the Bloodsmiths show up a bit before the rest so we can explain to him the level of upgrade that the smiths are about to undergo. Also, we may want some of the Bloodsmiths to start working with the newly hired knights/free riders and see what they can figure out about these guys, and how they can be worked into our plans and forces.

>>25725278
>Certainly, I hide nothing from my wife

Calling it "her plan as well" might be too much info for him, our beloved lady is a valuable asset however and should be kept in the loop.

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>>25725309

IF we have kids...

>>25725278
>No, I would not so quickly drag her from wedded joy to bureaucratic tears.

No. This is between a Lord and his army. THis is not something we should bother a woman with.

>>25725439
>THis is not something we should bother a woman with.

She's our wife.

And she's smart as us, if not more so.

>>25725439

It's not just the lord and his army, this is a man and his closest confidants and friends. The wife will be included, just... not yet.

>>25725439
She's either in the know or she'll fuck everything up. It's still ASOIAF, the universe is filled with black widows.

>>25725302
>>25725319
>>25725348
>>25725375
>>25725391
>>25725439
>>25725456
>>25725459
>>25725476
Hey so, did we ever ask her if she was interested?

We should do that. If it's not to late.

>>25725494
Why wouldn't she? Our problems are hers now as well.

>>25725515
Not saying she's not. Just mention that maybe we should say something like, "Love, I'm having a meeting with the men soon and wanted your opinions. But some of them are well...crusty old men unused to me being married. What do you think?"

>>25725550
Ok, that's not a bad idea.

>>25725391
>>25725348
>>25725319
>>25725302
>>25725375

"Certainly, Korbis. I hide nothing from my wife, and it's best the captains get used to her presence, as these are her lands as well as mine."

"Of course, sire."

As he exits, you poke your head out the door, and note with some relief that Egar is on duty for your solar today. The Captain tries to be present as often as he can, but sometimes it is unavoidable. You wave him in, telling him that you've called a captain's meeting, and wanted to speak with him beforehand, as you plan to improve the Bloodsmith's equipment to the best they can be.
"I want to show the Seven Kingdoms that my men are the hardest."
He nods his head, and states that the men will start training for increased armor.
Your first captain to arrive is, unsurprisingly, Merrick, Castellan and Captain of the Garrison. His mustache is finely waxed, no doubt a remnant from the peacocking you're certain he indulged in during the tournament. He congratulates you on your marriage, and wishes you and your wife many happy children, and that your lives be long and...
You'd almost forgotten how the man could talk. You swear he'd be better as a herald than a guard captain, but he's as vigilant as he is pompous, and loyal as he is longwinded.

Grell steps in as he speaks, cutting you a quick nod, and taking his place by the solar window. You note his brown hair has apparently been braided recently. You wonder if he's found a woman. And if so, how he courted her. You imagine that long silences and curt nods do not a romance make.
(cont)

>>25725592
Finn's armor is polished and shining, and his face just as bright. You swear the man has some sort of sorcery that makes him wake happier and faster than any other man.

Arban enters, and bows to you. His robes are umber and red, accentuating his tan skin, and his white smile.

Donnal's replacement, Hefram, steps in, with Korbis fast behind him. Hefram and you have had little interaction, and you take a moment to eye the man. Dark of Skin, strong arm. As you recall, the man was like a boulder. Uneasily moved to a course, but practically unstoppable once it was begun.
And last comes Alyssa. She steps into the room, her hair bound back, her dress a forest green, quickly glances around the room, then nods at you and quickly walks around the room, reacquainting herself with your captains. Finn and her seem to have struck up a friendship, and of course Merrick fawns like he expects to get his own lordship. Grell nods at her question, and gives her a brief smile. Hefram seems unimpressed by her, and Korbis is cordial, but not enthusiastic.
Finally she ends up by your side.
"My lord husband," she says aloud. "I'm so pleased you would include me in your planning sessions." Her hand runs along your back, unseen by the men, as a silent thanks. "I know you and your captains have a special bond, and I am new to your estates, so I shall strive to not interfere until I understand our situation as well as these others."

Finn smiles "Shouldn't be too hard milady, as as far as I know, Our situation is 'wedding's done'."

Now would be a good time to explain your plans to your men and wife.

>Plans.

>>25725731

So, uh, what are our plans?

>>25725731
Getting Foremen for mines.
Dealing with Unhonorable poisoner.
Making army harder than our Iron.
Upgrading economy.
Books, all the books.

>>25725782
>Also I want 2 sets of Dreadnaught Armour, one for combat, and one designed around solely for jousting, forged from iron from our own lands.
>The jousting version will try to maximise protection of the front, at expense of the sides and back, and the shape of the armour would be designed to deflect lance strikes head-on rather than the wide variety of blows that regular armour faces.

Seriously, Robert is planning on inviting us for future tourneys, I want us to have the best armour possible before them.

>>25725782
>Dealing with Unhonorable poisoner.

Honestly I'm not sure there's anything we can do now.

Oberyn Martell is back in Dorne, after all.

Also I'm pretty sure are army is already big enough to be really suspicious.

>>25725731
- Mining personnel need new leadership
- Find that poisoner and flay him alive
- Upgrading army

Maybe get some input on the whole "hand of the king" business from the boys as well? We will have to inform them of Tywin's order sooner or later, better they know right up front what's coming to us.

>>25725731

Gentlemen, there are a few pressing matters that in a way, stem from the wedding itself. First and foremost, each of you have given me your oaths of loyalty in all things, and I thank each and every one of you for your devotion that you have shown me, even if I have at times been an iron headed monster.

That said, no longer is there just a Lord Bordain, or even just a William Bordain. There is now an Alyssa, or Lady Bordain. And here, in private, I ask each of your to extend your oaths to encompass not just myself, but my wife, and any children that we may have.

Once that's done...

Gentlemen, now that we have that done, I need an honest opinion from each of you on two things. First, I want an honest opinion based on your observations of the lords, ladies, and knights who were recently in our lands. Which of them are weakest, which are strongest, and which are most likely to cause us trouble.

>>25725842

What's the limit for a Lord of our standings army anyway? 1000 men?

>>25725863

Also, I would like your opinions from what you have seen, of Lord Arryn and of his advisors. Be as candid as you like, everyone knows I would rather hear the truth than be fed a pile of manure.

>>25725877
It really depends on how much the king (and Tywin) likes us. If we want to be hand of the king it's not unreasonable to have a larger army than other lords of similar standing.

>>25725782

I like this plan.

>>25725877
The limit is however much it takes before your Liege Lord tells you to knock that the fuck off.

How many is that? Hard to say. probably not too much more, as you've already had complaints and warnings about how aggressively you expand your forces.

>>25725842
>>25725902
I'm not saying make it bigger. Make it harder. Our men will be the absolute best trained and equipped that we can make them.

Also, personal thing, we should see about upgrading our town to the next level.

>>25725782

thirding this

>>25725937

I say we do this, plus increase our army by sixty more men and the then stop for some time.

>>25725877

Eeeh uuuh... that's kind of nebulous really. There isn't really a limit, so much as "This is a bit more than proper for a lord to keep peace in his lands." to "Are you preparing for war?"

It really depends on banner houses, how much land we control, the lawlessness in the lands, restive neighbors, turmoil in the realm, known enemies, etc etc.

Right now, with our force of 940 men (Not sure if that includes the new hires), we already count a large portion of the military might of the area. I think Page said something like 1 out of every 20 men under arms in the area is pledged to us.

Expanding much beyond that will stretch our resources, the area we can house them, and will start looking like we are gearing towards a fight somewhere.

Truthfully, I'd rather upgrade our guys than expand them unless we were going to be making another banner or two.

And that is something we need to think about. Clamon doesn't, to the best of my knowledge, have much if anything in the way of troops given over to him. It wouldn't be a bad idea to split some of the infantry or garrison off and toss them his way until he can muster some men of his own. Something like 40 men or so we could easily stand to spot to him, or hell, even give to him on a permanent basis.

>>25725969
Well we are sitting on two groups of Green infantry, maybe we should have them train with the 2 elite infantry and bloodsmiths to get them up to snuff.

And it can't hurt to have our men be the best equipped, either.

>>25726004

Seconding this.

>>25726004

Thirding this.

>>25726004
Oh hey, having the veterans train the newbies is actually a semi-plausible excuse for upgrading units without them seeing combat.

>>25726004

Agreed, I would be 100% behind getting our green guys trained up. I also want every one of our guys equipped as best we can afford.

I also want a lot of things, but working steading on the quality of our troops is a very VERY good idea.

Having somewhere that we can safely house them all is also important. Because of that, and I know this is going to hurt, but here goes.

The area where the docks are at isn't a town, large or small yet. It's not connected to the main town, it's outside of it, and because of that, if shit were going down, it's unguarded.

I would suggest building three things.

#1, a small tower or similar there, then adding one of the troops to the area.
#2, a small town around the docks, and expanding that steadily into a larger town with a market and similar.
#3, upgrading in order, our town to one or two sizes larger, followed by our keep to one size larger.

Yes all these things will take a decent amount of money and time, thankfully we have plenty of the former, and hopefully we can count on at least a bit of the latter.

>>25725828
Hmm, if we go to the tournament wearing some never before seen, superheavy armour, we might actually pickup even more noteriety, as well as advertising for our smiths.

It's sends a message that not only are we wealthy enough, and have such highly skilled smiths as to make some kind of super-armour, but we're also able to physically wearing it.

Not only that, but seeing that much plate should be intimidating in and of itself.

>>25726013
>>25726035
>>25726072
>>25726077
I thought the previous reason was that that they're mostly surviors of a civil war with brutal infighting, and recieved training from our Bloodsmiths, the best of our elites?

Should we at some point ask them if they have thought of any goals it would be in the best interests of our House to pursue?

Shows that we respect their opinions, and also it seems like we're not too sure on objectives just yet, beyond 'spend money to make more money' and 'make soldiers better at soldiering'.

>>25726077
Oh, those three things you said does sound like a good use of our cash.

>>25726077
I second this, better prepare for any kind of trouble that may come our way. We're just starting out, if we don't invest in infrastructure now, it'll just bite us in the ass later on.

I'm also voting for asking our guys what they think we should improve further. Getting input from your underlings might cover things we might overlook and it makes them feel appreciated.

>>25726077
Maybe we could make a series of fortified keeps/towers that double as a barracks/storehouse/grainery?

That way the barracks will be hard as hell to take in the event of the walls being breached and double as miniature strongholds. Not only that, but should we run low on food, the keeps will prevent rioters from storming them, and will be harder for saboteurs to destroy than regular graneries.

(This is in addition to the storehouse in the main keep, extra food for when winter is coming.)

>>25725938
>>25725905
>>25725782
>>25725828
>>25725863

"Stop your yapping, Finn. Of course I have plans. For one, I'd like better armor, so the next time Robert makes me ride a tourney, I don't get beaten black and blue by a squire!"
The men laugh, and then simmer down as you begin speaking again.
"Beyond that, my first order of business is an easy one." You step aside slightly. "As you know, I have married. Which means that your oaths to Lord William Bordain need to be expanded. I need you to swear to serve my wife and any of our children as you would serve me."
Alyssa shoots you a quick glance, her eyes unreadable as a series of blades leave their scabbards in a hurry. Each man steps forward, kneels before her, his sword over his knee, and swears his loyalty and obedience. Well, technically Grell just says: "I will serve, my lady.", but the intent is the same.
As they rise and return to their positions, Merrick dusting his knees, you begin to get into the real meat of your plans:
"First, I want men of skill, with heads for numbers, running our mines. Our lifeblood is what we draw from the earth, so I need men we can trust. Unlike that traitor who fed our steel to the hill tribes."
"Second, I must let you know of a grave act. Ser Donnal, our friend and brother, was poisoned."
Finn is on his feet, his eyes hot. "And what man did this deed, that I may put his name on the stone they bury him under?"
You sigh. "Oberyn Martell."
The fire in Finn's eyes gutters sharply, but doesn't go out.
"...Well. I always...wanted to kill me a snake."
"In time, Finn. In time. But these things must be done slowly. and properly. We've get him eventually. Know that I will not let this go unavenged."
Your men nod, their eyes hard.
(cont)

So, since we seem to have infrastructure and troop shit down, have we made a decision yet on Tywins proposal?

>>25726228
That's politics, I'd say we talk that out with Alyssa after we gave orders for structural improvement.

>>25726185

I like that idea, but really, and I know this is a bit nuts, but I kind of want to expand it a bit.

I kind of want to turn the docks and small city with tower into eventually an area we can turn over to one of our closest captains when we make him a banner. Ditto with expanding other small keeps as we build in our land. Make each area and keep it's own small self supporting fortification with an accompanying knight tenant who holds it in our name. They aren't lords, but they are our banner men, pay taxes to us, have justice in their land, and come with swords when we call for them. It's kind of a cheating way of getting around the "No more than about 1000 men" limit we kind of have.

Also, each of these banners will bring more gold, more influence, and more assistance when/if we need it.

And finally, and most importantly, it rewards the men we have who have proven their personal loyalty over in both time, blood, and steel. We reward these men in ways that will make them feel not just trusted, but valued above all others, and by god, we will have men who aren't just willing to kill and die for us, but who are willing to face down the devil himself if we call our banners to face him.

>>25726224
"And to better make him pay for that: We need to be harder. The Lords of the Vale when that I muster too many men. I say that if you want peace, you must be ready for war. And so I hope to make our land the most peace-loving fief in all Westeros. If we cannot get more men, then let us make the ones we have better. I want any man who didn't fight in the Rebellion training with two who did. I want your arms and armor to be the best of our stock before we sell them. I want our foes to crash on us and be broken."
"And if they fear us not for arms, let them fear our coin. Let our iron come worthy as Tywin's gold, and if those Greyjoy bastards think they can pay an Iron Price, let us cost them in Steel. For it is wealth that keeps our people fed and happy."
"All of this, of course, stands as abstracts, goals. We will work toward them, aye, and soon, but we have some immediate concerns to turn to."
"If you know not Maester Arban, bid him welcome, and give thanks, for he has already proved himself worthy his price, as without him Donnal would have been taken by the Stranger. He says it would do us well to have a library, for his research and our betterment, and so we shall have one."
"Further, too long have our docks stood unattended. If we were to war with some neighbor, our lifeblood would be snatched away in an instant. So I say we begin immediate fortification and population of the area immediately around the docks, as well as looking to expand Morderengrad, and Morderenfeld."
(cont)

>>25726282
Hmm, I don't mind that with future cities, but I'd like to have at least one area under our direct control.

Relying on our vassals scutage for 100% of our income seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

>>25726228

I've got a suggestion there also (Shocking, I know).

Tywin told us to send a raven asking about Cersei if we chose one plan, Jamie if we chose the other, and about Tyrion if we chose to ignore him.

Now, in the beginning, we can easily state that becoming Arryn's right hand man will take time, and overthrowing him will be quite difficult as things sit. So pledging to either plan and ignoring the other isn't going to help us yet.

My suggestion instead, is that we send him a message asking after the health of BOTH Cersei and Jamie. That shows him that we are willing to commit to the plan, and that we will seize whatever opportunity comes our way to make either of these two things happen. Either we supplant his advisers, or we supplant him. Hell, we could mesh both plans and become his most trusted adviser, and get him to supplant himself and recommend us as his replacement. It shows flexibility, and that we will do whatever we need to do to ensure that the goal of removing Arryn one way or the other is taken care of.

Of course, what Tywin doesn't have to know, is that once we have either replaced Arryn, or removed him, is that we then start taking steps to remove his stain from the world also, followed by that fat bastard, Robert. Hell at that point, we could point the both of them at one another and then hack down the victor.

>>25726343

Ah, but we do have our direct control. We have our keep, our town, and most importantly, our mines, that are the lifeblood of our lands.

Those things we never give up.

>>25726282

Am I the only one that thinks that this has "vassals that will eventually get greedy and untrustworthy" written all over it?

>>25726385
I like your raven plan, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. We are already on the hit list of one house, we should stay loyal to either the crown or the Lannisters for a long time.
Let's just prove oursolves to Tywin as a valuable asset, he's a pragmatic and won't shit on us for no reason.

>>25726414
What? I thought your post was advocating turning our town and port over to vassals.

Argh, I'm so confused now!

>>25726425
Hey guys, I got a great idea, if we use eunichs as our vassals, they won't betray us, because they'll have no kids to pass their wealth to.

It's foolproof, look how well it worked for Ancient China!

>>25726331

You look around the room, exultant and empowered. Your captains are all leaning forward, their eyes holding the same hunger and fire they did back when you planned night raids and pincers in the Rebellion. Your wife looks at you, her eyes a little shocked, but when she sees you looking, she smiles, and he eyes shine with excitement.
Arban has a more measured look to his eyes as he gazes at you. You guess he is measuring you in his mind.
"These are my plans, men. To make us invulnerable. To bring ruin to those who stand against us, and to make this land one that our children and our children's children will not have taken from them."
Your men cheer, their faith renewed and sharpened.
"BUT."
They settle down.
"I cannot see everything. That's where I need you. What do you think we need? What have you seen? Did any of the lords, ladies or knights strike you as useful, strong, or weak? Tell me what you have for me."

(end speech. responses soon. so . much. writing.)

>>25726425

Why would Tor or Clammon be untrustworthy?

>>25726502

>ASOIAF
>not betrayals everywhere

>>25726502
Who the fuck knows, it's called "Not putting our eggs all in one basket."

Our basket being our vassals, in this case.

(Also Vassals only provide a small fraction of the income one could make from directly controlling it, turning all our lands over to our vassals would cause us to take a huge hit to our wealth, it's more useful when we expand, and have more areas to manage than we can feasibly cover.)

>>25726425

There is that danger, yes. But only if we choose shitty vassals. Right now we have Tor and Donnal, both of who we can rely on.

I'm not suggesting that we make the newly hired knights into banners until we have known them for a long fucking time. What I am suggesting is that we eventually make people like, Finn, Merrick, Grell, and the rest into banners. These captains that we count as our closest advisers are the ones I would turn into vassals when the time comes. And I would then let them pick their own successors.

After all, we have gone through hell and back with these men. If we have been able to trust them with our life time and time again, and they have stuck with us even after we killed the children, then I highly doubt they will turn on us, ever. It's not in their blood to do so.

Also, >>25726427 we are loyal to ourselves. We hate Tywin, and we hate Robert. It's established as a core part of our character that both these two men are the central focus of our rage and hate. Even if it takes 50 years, eventually WE have to be the person holding the knife when they fall from grace.

>>25726497

Turning over the port and small town that we have to build up around it. (Which we haven't done yet).

Not our main town or keep.

>>25726552
See; >>25726549

>>25726549
Those guys are not some high lords, they are soldiers. It's just about throwing them a bone, they are not the backstabby type.
Remember, we're not House Lannister with a hundred bannermen who all have plans themselves. We are more like the Gleganes and should act that way.
So far we're a small chess piece for the big guys, but we have an important good that allows us top achieve a great economic influence, paired with our "friend" Tywin we might be useful enough to take a bigger chunk step by step.

>>25726569
Eeeeh, a port is a Major fucking source of wealth, I wouldn't mind giving them an inland place, but giving them the area that has more wealth running through it than anywhere else seems like it could backfire horribly.

>>25726598
Throwing them our *only* trading port isn't 'throwing them a bone', its tossing away the entire goddamn roast.

No to mention that even if we DO get some vassals, people are going to *still* be wary that we're accumulating so many soldier in such a small area.

I say we put off this idea until we get more land under our belt.

>>25726552
Sure, we hate both of them, but we can't do much in our situation. We need to get closer, we need more influence (we have the possibility of binding them to our armour and weapon shipments) and strike when the time comes. Right now we have to play along like a dog, we can bite our master sooner or later.

>>25726549

Exactly. Useful as we expand. And those knight banners are basically in charge of very specific things. Their lands are significantly smaller than that of a lord, their incomes are the same.

Basically, say we turn over a small village and tower to a knight, like what I propose we do with the docks area. As the town grows, that knights responsibility and area of influence does not. If Bob the knight is in charge of the tower and the docks, he remains "Bob, knight of Dockwatch tower." From there he gains some income from the docks, and maybe personal investments in the town, but we still retain lordship of the town, still draw the towns income, and that of the docks. He doesn't get all of it, just a portion to keep himself and his men well trained, supplied, and maintained.

The vassal system is kind of screwy unless you give them very specific things to be in charge of. Like my example. Going over board with land for that guy to be in charge of, and say he raises his own town there, then we ain't got shit to say about it. But if the town is there, the docks are there, and the tower is there, if we install him in that tower, and give him the tower and the job of protecting the docks, then that's his specific prevue.

>>25726552
>Even if it takes 50 years, eventually WE have to be the person holding the knife when they fall from grace.

"You see, it's the slow knife, the knife that takes its time, the knife that waits years without forgetting, then slips quietly between the bones. That's the knife that cuts deepest."

>>25726500

Merrick speaks first: "Milord, the Lord Baelish struck me as an inventive man, with as suited for money as yours is for war. If we could become his friend, he could be a great asset!"

Finn pipes in: "As long as we keep being useful to him. The man's as snaky as Martell. I trust no one who gets cut stem to stern and doesn't die."
"How dare you sir! He is a Lord of the Vale, and due your respect!"
"I respect no man who doesn't buy it with steel!"

An argument breaks out, which was probably predictable. But in the end, your men sort themselves out to give you this information:

-If he can be trusted, Baelish is a good horse to back.
-Royce is Arryn's right-hand man, so if we want to be big in the Vale, he's a good friend to have.
-Belmore's got wealth enough that fighting him might not be wise, but he seems fairly easily bought. Or maybe it's the reverse
- All Harrock cares about is his family. Best to live and let live.

Outside of the Vale, the opinions get even more fractured and fractious, until you end the meeting just to spare yourself their bickering.

Arban asks to speak with you after the meeting, as does your wife.

>Wife first
>arban
>por que no los dos?

>>25726500
Give the example that our wife helped us by showing that dredging the river will cause hardship to the fishermen and those depending on the river for food.

>>25726633

Obviously we bide our time. I'm not suggesting we do shit for a very, very, very, very, very long time.

Hell, I'd be happy if it only happens in like say... 40 years.

Also, >>25726629 see >>25726654

And >>25726570 see >>25726654

I'm not saying give them the docks entirely, just a specific focus, that will bind them to us, and give them enough to grow and expand on their own, while still retaining our own control.

Make sense?

>>25726688
>por que no los dos?

Yeah, let's speak to both of them.

I say: Make friends with Royce and Belmore, but just be acquaintances with Baelish.

>All Harrock cares about is his family.

When the fuck is he in this quest?

>>25726688
>por que no los dos?
POOOR QUEEEEEEE!?

Also, I am stepping away to make myself dinner.
Because a man needs to eat.

>>25726690
Oh yes, I'm all for the long knife. We have to get closer and closer, and when he thinks we are his most trusted vassal, he'll be dead meat.

>>25726688
>por que no los dos?
Now is not the time to ignore advice.

>>25726718

Could be an alternate-universe Harrock.

In terms of timelines, House Harrock occurs way before this quest. But I *think* that Page stated that this quest takes place separately from House Harrock Quest.

Arban first, while wife is here. Then after Arban leaves, wife. Maybe even take a bit of time to bend her over in the solar before turning our mind to the works ahead of us.

>>25726820
I see, our goal is now to just out produce every other lord so we can build an army of nobles.

>>25726840

I like the way this man thinks.

>>25726854
House Bordain - Ours is the dicking

>>25726820

This.

Also, since I forgot to mention it during the wedding and as a personal suggestion, we should ask our wife, in a sort of half-joking manner, if any men were too invasive during the bedding ceremony. If so, how would she like them to die?

>>25726654
I'm okay with 'future towns' but our current holdings don't need vassals ruling over them, since our main export is weapons, much of that is going out of the port, as the sheer weight would make transporting them over land much less profitable.

If we DO decide to do that, we're looking at a major loss of income from our port, as he gets to keep a good chunk of it. Likewise we don't turn most or all of our income over to our leige, but rather a smaller amount.

>>25726690
I'd prefer not to, Holding onto one castle, a port, and a two town isn't so much that we need to turn them over to our knights. We have a HUGE amount of land we gained from the hill tribes, lets put them there, and have them act as a buffer zone for potential enemies.

>>25726881
The problem with that land is, if we give them just empty fields and small villages, they might start to become bigger then us.

>>25726877

Actually. Why be half joking about it. Use that information to our advantage. I'm not suggesting they die, but we could use it as leverage.

>>25726877
Bedding ceremony?

>>25726908
This. Time to play dirty, we've got to be political now, our sword arm won't help us much in King's Landing. And Alyssa is the best political advisor we have right now.

>>25726930
A Westerosi wedding custom where the bride and groom are carried to their wedding bed by some of the guests. Some get a bit too hands-y.

>>25726930
The thing they do in S3E9 with Edmure and the Frey whore. Groom and bride get carried to their chambers by the guests and some might get a little too happy about carrying around your wife.

>>25726881
I kinda see both points, but if the guy is just in charge of the tower and defense of the docks, and he gets say like, 10-15% of the income from the docks, while we get the rest, isn't that still mostly going to us, and still gives the potential knight a good thing as a reward for loyalty and service. Not giving them the whole docks, just a small percentage?

>>25726904
We give them "reasonable" amounts of land, just look at the map for this region and give them something comparable. Then they form villages that the enemy will have to go through if they want to get to us. Not only that, but we don't have to gut our income to do so.

>>25726989
Because if we give him lands that he'll have to defend himself, that actually give him some motivation to actually create a defensive force.

Giving him a chunk of the profits of the docks just to ensure loyalty does nothing for the barbarians at the gates.

>>25726908

Maybe not right away. But they just need to think we'd be more than willing to break them over a slight to our wife's honor. Fear is as good as blackmail. Hell, she could just invent something to accuse a lord of and it would be enough to encourage William's wrath.

>>25727034
Seriously, feudalism had this whole land thing worked out for the most part, we give them a small region out near the border, a few villages worth, and he'll serve as a barrier to enemies looking to invade, and if he decides to get uppity, he leaves himself exposed to the neighbours.

>>25727069

What would you even call him? Not a lord, certainly. And who would be right for the job?

>>25727034

I'm not saying give them the whole docks.

Like >>25726989 kinda got, they get the tower, they get a percentage, and as the town grows, their focus remains the same. With the money, as it expands, they still keep getting the same percent. With that percent as it expands in scale, so to do they.

It works in other places, like in princelyquest, and in the actual books. They basically are the knight of the docks, with their tower/keep, and their percentage. And it works, both in the way the system goes, and historically.

And now I've acquired my chicken alfredo and garlic bread, back to the quest!

>Talk to Arban with Wife, and then to wife.

You usher your other captains out, while your wife and maester wait. As they depart, Korbis mentions sending up some food for you three.

As you return, You find Arban seated at the middle table with your wife. He turns to you.
"Milord, I wish to speak with you on what you spoke of just now to the captains, but first, I think it will do you good to know who it is that says these things. If my lord is willing to hear it, I will tell you my tale. If you have not the time, I shall go straight to my advice. Whichever pleases my lord best."

>Tale
>Straight advice

>>25727084
Uhh knights were granted fiefs in return for military service and/or a certain amount of money they collected.

>>25727101
And what exactly does that get us? All it seems to be doing is paying them a salary.

We grant land to knights to rule in our name, then we tax them their income a bit, and call upon them for military aid in times of war, and serve as a buffer zone.

Rather than cutting down on the land we have, we should give them some of the giant tracts of land we're not using.

>>25726817
>way before

Is 'A year and six months' way before?

>>25727160
>Tale
STORY. TEIM.

>>25727160
tale

>>25727167

Ah, now I understand where we are at cross purposes.

The reason I suggest granting that tower as a fief is because if would put them in charge of protecting that town and the docks, and take our own attention away from having to defend it. It gives them the purpose of building,
A, a potential navy of sorts (to help with river problems, and give us a few ships to protect our own without us having to pay for them).
B, a decent garrison force for the town and docks, that would also not be on us, and that they would have to buy the supplies in material for from us (at a discount, but still it gives some of that wealth back to us).
C, it puts them in a very key point, if our attention is focused on land invaders or similar, they would be very close to our other border, and the river, and they would be the guy in charge of ensuring that shit doesn't fly off the handle in their area.

It does give them something decent to hold onto. The river, and we would have them close at hand for assistance in case our keep got invested somehow.

>>25727160
>Tale
We have the time and the patience of iron

>>25727160

Tale. Then advice.

>>25727160
>>Tale

Trying to guess the meaning will sharpen deductive and critical thinking skills and will also allow us to enjoy the story.

>>25727160
>Tale
"You're already the most interesting maester I've seen or even heard of, so I would love to hear your story."

>>25727160

"This should be good." Grab a flagon of wine and pour two glasses.

>>25727282
>pour two glasses.

THREE GLASSES

One for each of us.

>>25727311

Whoops. My bad.

>>25727228
Okay, here's the problem with this. We'd have to divert a sigificant portion of our docks income to him for him to maintain a support troops, and if we *don't* then it's a huge waste of time.

Second of all, are you saying 1000 troops, many of which are on par with the /unsullied/ aren't enough to defend a port town and a castle town?

One of our towns/castles is in the freaking mountains, and is going to be hard has hell to invade, and the second we can get around by improving our navy.

As it stands right now, we have large amounts of lands taken from the hill tribes doing shit-all and doing nothing in case an opponent decides to invade over land.

Seriously, if you're this damn worried about naval threats, we can reinforce the port and our navies.


Also consider this, having our main port citiy *swell* with troops is still going to freak people out, saying they're run by our dock master isn't going to fool anyone.

We might as well expand our navy under the pretense of 'eliminating piracy' while we're at it.

>>25727325
The troops thing kinda operates like how the Codex Astartes made limits to Chapter sizes so that one group can't destroy half the imperium if it rebells.

If we grant a knight a small fief near our borders, not only would he *need* an army to defend his demese from bandits and raider, but even if we, Bordain decide to rebell, our troops will be spread out and be seen as less of a threat.

On the other hand, giving our portmaster an army is like a Marine Legion splitting in to Chapters, and having them all stick together at all times, anyways.

Yes it gets around the letter of the law 'Not amassing X number of troops', but it fails to live up to the spirit of the law 'not having control over enough troops to make yourself a legitimate threat.'

>>25727325

I'll break it down point by point, at least by my way of thinking. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. But remember, this is just a suggestion for the future.

Dock income. Once we have built the tower, and the town, installing a knight into the tower along with say, 50ish of our troops, which now become his responsibility to maintain, equip, etc, wouldn't really take as much income diversion as you are thinking. His taking approximately 10-15% isn't going to hurt us in the long run, and having a trusted vassal in charge of that area, which we still retain 90-85% of the income from, isn't a bad little area, and actually shows that we value him. The river gives him area to expand as he desires, and gives us a reliable person to leave behind, watching over part of the lands we have, if we pull most of our forces out for a war.

Troops. I'm also suggesting that we maintain our standing level of troops, around the 1000 men mark, I'm also suggesting that in small lots, as we establish small towns/towers in those towns, while we establish knight banners (remember, this plan takes YEARS to accomplish, during which we grow significantly), those knights get the tower and the defense of the town. That's their bailiwick, kind of how the Normans did it in England. The knight gets 50 of our troops to start with, until he builds up his own force, or we replace them, and then he keeps those troops. A single knight and 50 men at arms isn't a bad little tower force, especially to defend a small town or what have you. And while those 50 men may not seem like much, they DON'T count against our total, they are a full up body of troops that the knight has in his employ, and as we are doing this, we smatter the men he gets with some of the green troopers, and the more experienced ones. So that we have our knights, who will already be effective, have better than average troops in comparison to other small landed knights.

(cont'd)

>>25727245
>>25727244
>>25727240
>>25727218
>>25727199

"Tell your tale, Arban."

"Then know, my lord, that firstly I was once named Arban Jordayne, of House Jordayne, second son to my father, third child to our house." He gestures to his silver birthmark under his left eye. "Among the people of Dorne, this mark means one is touched by the Crone, and has the eyes of wisdom. Whether tis true or not, it served me well as a child, for I was no brash youth, but studious, and clever. My mind I sharpened as a weapon. For my brother would inherit, or my sister, but it was unlikely I should be more than their advisor. And I was, in time, content with this. "
"But upheaval came in that most common and wondrous way of all: a woman." Here he smiles briefly at your wife. "Her house was a rival to mine, her sight brought to me when her brother came to trade harsh words with my father. I was besotted. And knew that she could never be mine, as long as our houses stood rivals.
Hers was a small house, but had been enemy to ours for six generations. While ours was old and noble. Neither side would back down from this quarrel."
"So I destroyed her house."
He pauses to let that sink in.
"I, using the cunning that I had been given, forged letters, bribed knights, and "lost" shipments. Within a year's time, her house was destitute, reviled, and had but one option: a marriage to House Jordayne. I convinced my father that it would make us seem strong, and merciful. I pointed out that by marrying me, we would maintain strong marriage options."
"All of this I had arranged, and so it was almost perfect, when Oberyn Martell rode through, wined and dined my love, and deflowered her."
(cont)

>>25727600
Ooooh shiiieeeet.

>>25727325
>>25727488


Shit all land. Yep, and I suggest we make use of it as time goes by. I'm not saying we give it all away, and I'm not saying we give away all the income from those areas. I'm saying that we give specific areas like "Knight of the small town of fuck all" to this guy, and that guy, that way they have areas to control, patrol, and we still retain the income by and large from those areas.

Naval threats. Not really worried about them really, but it does help a bit since we ain't got a navy at all, and in reality, we don't need much of one.

And right now, we don't have a port city. We have a port, out on it's own, with no reaction force there at all in case anything happens there.

And I'm not suggesting that we give the port knight a whole army, or hell, more than 40-50 total troops, that hell, could double up as the police force for the town and docks as well.

Giving these guys leave to raise huge armies would raise eyebrows, and honestly, would be retarded. But nobody would raise an eyebrow to a landed knight having a household of 40-50 men at arms.

And that's what I'm suggesting. Through parting out, over a long period of time, the borders and important places that we feel the need for defending in a solid way, having a knight specifically tasked with the defense of that area and the ensuring of lawful trade and peace in that area, his having 50 men isn't a bad idea, and really, what would they pull from it, 1 or 2 wealth in total that would have gone to us at most per month, as we expand?

Honestly, we won't notice it. Especially with all the rest of our income, and our future income as we expand.

>>25727600

"Now was she unfit for even me. With his simple, selfish actions, Oberyn had stolen from me the result of meticulous planning."
"I was furious, and, in my anger, demanded my brother duel Oberyn. In my wrath, I thought not, and spoke too swiftly, claiming he had 'spoiled everything'."
"Brute Oberyn may be, but not without cunning. He caught my phrase, and swiftly enough, exposed my actions. I had committed crimes unbecoming of a lord. Doran Martell commanded I take the Black, or die. I presented a third option."
"As a Maester, I would be sworn to celibacy, just as a man of the black would, thus preventing any lust from clouding my mind. Further, I could not turn my mind to ambition, for a maester has no ambition, only humble service. As my strengths were such that it would be a great loss to the kingdoms if I will slain, this option suppressed my vices, leaving behind a pure soul."
"Doran was swayed by my logic, but commanded that even so, I could maester for no lord south of the westerlands, for he would prefer to never see me again."
"Seven years I have forged this chain, my lord. I have sworn to take no woman to bed, nor to reach beyond my station. I have sworn oaths on blood and breath, on soul and sight. From these I tell you, I HATE Oberyn Martell, as Robert hates Targaryens, as Ice hates Fire. I would do any thing I had in my power to crush him and see him fall to the Stranger."

"Which is why I want to know who we are truly going to fight."

(cont)

>>25727600

So Arban already hates Oberyn.

I fucking love this. Now we have another reason to fuck Oberyn as hard as possible.

Also, fuck you Captcha for giving me some goddamned japanese letters.

People are acting like we have a real limit of troops we can keep. If they need help we can just send our men to them to garrison while keeping them as ours and they can recruit themselves.

Mean it isn't a bad idea to do something like this but we should do it when we are much bigger. Land 30-40 and we want to retain all the troops we can because we are all elites. Splitting up our army is splinting up our ability to keep people in line. Let one group get too faithful to the subordinate house then we risk getting screwed.

And really won't draw any attention away from our army anyway. Be like the USA dropping and training a massive force in another nation with a allied leader. Then saying the army is 250K less because they all are in another territory and officially part of that nation. When anyone who can read the climate would realize the unofficial effect.

We can do this but we should when we start getting more land and more men to justify training troops for the subordinate house.

>>25727647
50 Men? That's quite frankly is a waste of a knight's talent, hell, we could just have whoever runs the garrison to take care of that.

This just smacks of "Giving your buddy a cushy job" rather than giving someone a job that's actually useful.

>>25727649

Eventually Arban... I would see the entire realm put to fire and the sword.

Oberyn, Tywin, Robert, all of the large lords who force both you, and myself, into molds not of our own choosing. I would have all who have done this to us, and to those closest to us, put to the sword.

It will take time, probably much of a lifetime, but I would have our steel give each of them to the stranger.

>>25727720
...Wait until he finished first.

And there are better ways of revenge.

>>25727720
Woah, that's not cool dude, saying shit like that's going to set off warning signs for anyone who hears that.

I say we keep our treason to our selves, and just admit that we want to fucking put that snakes head onto a fucking pike.

>>25727720
I'd find it rather funny if Arban deflowered Oberyn, if you catch my drift. I'm talking about gay rape.

>>25727705

I beg to differ, those 50 initial men would be ours, and they would raise more, as would we. But I'll double check on this.

>>25727649

Page, point of order.

How large is the average landed knights military strength in these parts? Am I right that the 50 men is about right, or am I aiming way to small/large?

>>25727649

"Who? Better to ask who we aren't. You and I, Arban, our souls have been stained by the actions of those who believed themselves higher than us. Our masters. But I believe that Iron Masters All. I plan to have the banners of House Bordain kissing the sky across the Seven Kingdoms. With you, my friend, my wife and I can make that happen."

>>25727748

Like who? Our solar currently has, what, Ourselves? Our wife, and Arban? A Maester who, by definition is oathed to ourself and our house?

>>25727649

"In these chambers, you spoke well and fiercely. Your men follow you with heart and hand. But seeing you there, I was reminded not of a lord ruling his realm, but of a commander marshaling his troops. And Oberyn cannot be your target. Your men are too prepared, your fire too well-fed, for it to be a man who slighted you not a week past. You bear some ancient hate in you, as I bear for Oberyn. Further, you must plan some great upheaval, to wreak your vengeance on a Lord so higher than you, and so distant."
"I advise, my lord, three things: That you tell me of your true aim, that I may better serve you. "
"Second, that you perhaps lighten your conduct with your captains. As it stands, I half expected them to charge from the room like a Dothraki horde, to plunder your enemies. A lighter touch, perhaps call it a "council meeting" instead of "captain's"?"
"Thirdly, and finally, I advise thee: if our enemy be Jon Arryn, I have prescribed entirely the wrong herbs for his usage."
Here he smiles cruelly.
"For the maesters and Doran were fools. Ambition does not fall or flit like a leaf on the breeze. I said I would make thee great, my lord. For so too shall I be great."

(end speech)

>>25727763
I really think we have enough soldiers for now.

I mean we're not actively seeking a war, and no one will attack our realm unless we do something really stupid.

>>25727763
>strength
Anywhere from 0-300.

It depends on the land given and so forth. In general, a single unit or two, so 100-200.

Many have only themselves, formally, and assume command of a lord's units in times of war.

>>25727792
Saying that we plan to kill everyone makes us sound deranged, it's not the fact that treason is illegal, but the fact it makes us look like a maniac with delusions of grandeur.

MAYBE we admit it in the future, when it seems like we can reasonably pull it off.

>>25727792

Never take that risk. No matter who it is even parents or wive. The less they know the less complications we can have and the more safe they are from not seeing the full picture.

>>25727845

My bad then. Thanks Page.

>>25727325

Based on the number that Page supplied, I cede the point. While I still think the idea valid, with that number of troops being the average, I agree that the income expended would be unwise. Rather than installing a knight banner in a tower there, better to give it a decent garrison and a good commander.

>>25727851
>>25727860

The maester will pen all of our letters and we keep no secrets from our wife. If there are any people in the Seven Kingdoms who are more worth trusting with the slightest of Bordian's intentions, I'd like to see them.

>>25727860

Uh... Wife already mostly knows of our hate. We aren't really going to be able to keep it from her. Especially considering what Arban already pointed out in >>25727815.

>>25727845
What? No peasant levies? I assumed that the peasants were obligated to serve X amount of days a year to their lord.

Or do you mean the 0-300 are the peasant levies?

>>25727860
I like this, Plausible Deniablity is a good thing.

>>25727905
Why? Saying we plan to kill the king isn't going to help per, if we bring her into this, she's a co-conspiritor.

>>25727921
Hating the king, and saying to our council that we plan to kill the king and Tywin Lannister are two completely different things.

>>25727921
Seriously, this is the very core of our house. They need to know what we intend. At least as far as Tywin's mission and Jon Arryn/becoming Hand.

>>25727940
If we fuck up, she's dead anyway. Along with any kids we might have and anyone in our service. Historically, keeping secrets and misinforming people on your side has been the downfall of many, many people in ASOIAF.

But we shouldn't launch into kill Robert and Tywin just yet. Just talk about becoming hand and what Tywin wants with us.

>>25727815
"You are a perceptive man, Arban, and I admire that.

You're right to assume that my true goal is not Oberyn. Truth be told, before today I held the man no ill will. If he'd conducted himself with a bit more candor at my wedding I'd be content to live and let live. Of course, as the case stands he'll have to die. Preferably painfully. Doubly so after what you've told me.

No, my true goal is to get revenge on the men who forced me to commit that foul deed. King Robert and Lord Tywin. I don't necessarily intend to kill them. I think the best revenge I could take against Lord Tywin would be to best him in every way. He's a prideful man, to be usurped as Warden of the West by his former squire would be a fate worse than death I'm sure. As for Robert well... I merely want to be there to watch him slowly kill himself, and laugh when all he leaves in his wake is burnt ash.

To do that though, I need troops, I need money, and I need influence. My current goal is to usurp Jon Arryn as Hand of the King. So there you have it, Arban. My true intentions."

>>25727977
>laugh when all he leaves in his wake is burnt ash.

Change this.

We will not have the seven kingdoms suffer just to make ourselves feel better.

We who know the horrors of war will not tolerate another.

>>25728016

Point of order.

We live for war. Our income comes from war, we are at heart a man of great violence that is only tempered by our own will of iron.

Not wanting war is foolish, we want it, because we want to win this war.

>>25727943
If we do tell them, it either A. gets us executed for treason, B. makes a whole bunch of other people guilty of treason. or C. Have people call us crazy, desert us, then get us executed for Treason. Right now it's a pipedream, not any reasonable plan.

>>25727971
At this point we're like Cuba, saying we're planning to invade the USA, until we actually are in a position to pull it off, it's going to sound like CRAZY TALK.

In the meantime, we keep that shit under wraps, since a secret is best kept by not telling anyone, and even the slightest whipser of it getting out gets our house killed and the rest of our family disgraced.

>But we shouldn't launch into kill Robert and Tywin just yet. Just talk about becoming hand and what Tywin wants with us.

I agree with this, however.

>>25728038
But do we want to paint ourselves as a wartime consigliere only? If so, we won't reach the level of hand until there is a war, and we're likely to be thrown out as soon as it's over.

>>25728038

We don't need to start a war. There's one coming very soon. What we need to do for now is do as Tywin has asked and position ourselves to better achieve our ultimate goal in the long run. We need to be patient and we need position.

Just tell our wife and Arban about Tywin and Jon Arryn. That's enough for now.

>>25728038
What?

You think we want to create something that could make more people like ourselves?

Are you high?

I'm not saying we shouldn't be ready for war, but to want to see the Seven Kingdoms drown in blood just to spite two men?

Fuck. No.

Gonna wait to post until it looks like a consensus is reached.

As a point, I will say two things:
1. Remember that your men are veterans of a war held to overthrow the king, and replace him.
2. You are not currently discussing telling your whole plan to all your captains. Merely your wife (who already knows about Tywin's plans for you) and Arban.

I would also point out that, as a lord, it would take some hefty fucking evidence to convict you.

But, if anyone would be believed, it would be your wife and maester.

>>25728137

We tell Arban about Tywin's plan. We tell him everything we told Alyssa and how, potentially, we could find ourselves very close to becoming Hand of the King. That should be ambitious enough for him, knowing that Oberyn would inevitably fall afoul of us.

>>25728045
Maybe we can say we hold a grudge against Tywin and Robert, but despite that, we think Tywin has made some good points?

>>25728137
Oh, and, as written, your goal is WEALTH.
Your motivation is HATRED.

This should be noted, because there are other options on Goal, including: power, revenge, security.

As written, none of those are your goal. Wealth is.

You may certainly choose to change this, as it's a fluff piece, but that's how it stands presently.

>>25728201
So we want to have more money than all the gold in Casterly Rock, to spite Lord Tywin?

>>25727971
>Historically, keeping secrets and misinforming people on your side has been the downfall of many, many people in ASOIAF.
>Little finger.

It's not really a question of what we hide. It is how we hide it without getting screwed. When we mention it. It should be years from now when we have more power and more sway.

>>25728136

Um... seriously? Have you read ANY of the archives? Bordain isn't a peacetime lord. He war forged in war, it's who he is, how he was raised both in childhood, and how he was raised to being a lord. This is the seven kingdoms, war is a regular thing. Our income comes from others fighting wars, wars are normal, regular, and frequent. The fact that we just fought in a big one is no reason to think that another one will never come. We have surrounded ourselves with a unit called the Bloodsmiths, we have a murderous thug named Grell as one of our advisers, all of us are steeped in war, warfare, and killing. It is integral to who and what we are.

Pardon me, but since you asked if I am high, let me return the favor. Are you retarded? We aren't going to ask people to kill children. A burden like that we understand all to well, and would more than likely leave to ourselves, or Grell would do it and never have to be asked or similar.

>>25728083
I don't even understand. I catch the meaning, but we aren't aiming to be hand forever. We are aiming for more than that. And if we did become hand during a war, I highly doubt we would get thrown out if we won the war. More than likely the exact opposite.


>>25728137
I'm fine not telling Arban and the wife of our desire to see Tywin and Robert dead, but based on Arban's statement, and that of how we are, at least letting some of it slip make sense in character as far as I can tell Page.

>>25728226

No, we want to see him ruined for making us become a child murderer. Same reason we hate Robert. We want to take everything he has and prove that Iron Masters All. And maybe, just maybe, we can assuage our own guilt.

>>25728267
see
>>25728201
Our motivation is wealth, not revenge. As it's written at least.

>>25728281

And it's written based off of a random roll that was made at creation. William Bordain has grown a little larger than one word.

>>25728281
So we want to have our "revenge" by... living a happy and wildly successful life, and if we can do so while seeing Tywin and Robert fall apart, all the better.

>>25728327
I'm jus' sayin' man. If we're switching our goal to ruining Robert and Tywin we should change it from Wealth to Revenge.

Personally, I think being better than Tywin in every way, wealthier, more influential, and more powerful, would be a better goal and a sweeter revenge.

This is why Game of Thrones quests always fail. A bunch of retards aren't happy with how the main character is portrayed or his action several threads in when it's too late to change. It happened whenever marriage was brought up with Karban, it's continuing to happen with Harrock and the laundry list of bad decisions made there. Fuck, /tg/.

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>>25728267
>>25728281
We combine them, we get ALL the monies in the kingdom and leave them both broke.

Then we laugh at them on our throne made from solid gold.

>>25728358
>>25728327
I think we're more focused on revenge now. Maybe we can get revenge through wealth, but it's still revenge based.

>>25728249
Preparing for war makes money. Cleaning up after a war can make money, depending on how things go.

War itself?

Horribly expensive, if you're the one doing the fighting.

>>25728393
Getting revenge through wealth sounds like aspiring to wealth motivated by hatred.

>>25728348
>>25728358
As the saying goes, nothing drives people crazier than seeing someone have a good fucking life.

>>25728398

Personally, I highly doubt that Bordain is the kind of guy who would want others to do his fighting for him. Especially considering that is kind of what Tywin and Robert did to him.

>>25728404

Agreed.

Sadly, it's nearly 2am where I am, and I have to get up for work in 5 hours.

Page, good night, I'll sadly miss next week, unless you do it on Sunday, as I have a wedding to attend.

Everyone else, good night, stay safe, and don't let Bordain get fucking killed.

>>25727977
>>25728137
Just go with this and call it a day, good 'nuff.

>>25728226
Shrug
Maybe you want to have enough money to force Tywin and Robert to do what you want.
Maybe you want to have enough money to never have to listen to them.
Maybe you want to have such good arms and armor that you get all of Tywin and Robert's gold.

This is just the goal you got during character creation. I don't mess around with it, since it's a character thing, which is your guys' call. II have never based a decision or suggestion off of it.

If we WANT to make it Revenge, we can do that. Maybe Bordain feels he's already achieved wealth, and thus his goal has changed.

>>25728348
This is a valid option.

ANYwho: we seem to have reached a consensus to tell Arban that we have been asked to be Hand of the King, and that we are not on the best of terms with Tywin and Robert. Is this acceptable?

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>>25728327
Why not both? Leave both their houses in ruins while we swim in gold. Much more satisfying than simply destroying them.

>>25728358

We ALWAYS wanted to bring down Robert and Tywin. From the very beginning!

>>25728348
>>25728423
That's not William Bordain. William Bordain cursed himself the day he climbed the Red Keep with the Mountain and murdered one of the Targaryen children. The only way he knows to repent for what he did is to tear down the bastards who gave the orders.

>>25728429
What fighting?

I mean when we were confronted by the Hill Tribe, did we wage a war and wipe them out?

No, we fought one battle, and then won them over to signing on with us, and familiarizing ourselves with their customs.

We only killed one dude, and roughed up a couple more.

>>25728443
Yes.

Say that if possible we'd like to do the milder option, since Arryn is no foe of ours.

This arguing is fucking pointless, it doesn't even matter! It's not like Page has ever said "No that suggestion is out of line with Karban's motivation".

>>25728443

Yes, please, let's continue before more idiots decide to waddle in, shitting on themselves.

>>25728480

...wut. He kind of fought a entire war bro. Though it was never mentioned if he was at the thick of things all the time.

>>25728480

Oh my god, what the fuck how can you be so fucking stupid. Bordain has done nothing but fight his entire life. He became a lord because he's a fucking murderer.

>>25728536
Are you an idiot? We had a choice between waging war and making peace, and we chose peace.

And you think we want to burn the world down out of hate?

>>25728567
I mean I'm not saying we aren't the best at fighting, and that we don't enjoy fighting.

But we don't start fights, we end them.

Very, very, decisively.

>>25728567

No, I think we want to kill the fuckers who turned us into a monster. It's not perfect, it's not pretty, and it certainly doesn't make us a good guy, but what the fuck is in this setting? Read the goddamn threads and learn something.

>>25728600
>>25728591
>>25728567
It doesn't fucking matter. Nobody else cares. Shut the fuck up.

>>25728591

Kind of agree here actually. He isn't the type to just start a fight but he is the type to end a fight that starts.

>>25728600
Shithead, I've been here since the start.

Yeah we hate them and want them to die or suffer, but how do you think we want to go about doing that?

Do you think our goal is to destroy House Baratheon and House Lannister, to put every member of their families to the sword?

To spark a war with no goal but to make them pay?

>>25728634

So have I and I literally never said any of those things. Take your butthurt up with someone else, faggot.

>>25727977

"You are a perceptive man, Arban, and I admire that.
"You're right to assume that my true goal is not Oberyn. Truth be told, before the tournament I held the man no ill will. If he'd conducted himself with a bit more decorum at my wedding I'd be content to live and let live. Of course, as the case stands he'll have to die. Preferably painfully. Doubly so after what you've told me.
"No, my true goal is to get revenge on the men who forced me to... well, you know of my deeds. King Robert and Lord Tywin. I don't necessarily intend to kill them. Or even truly harm them. I merely wish for them to regret what they have done to me.
I think the best revenge I could take against Lord Tywin would be to best him in every way. He's a prideful man, to be usurped as Warden of the West by his former squire would be a fate worse than death, I'm sure.
As for Robert well... I merely want to be there to watch him slowly realize that all he has fought for has turned to ash in his mouth.\
"To do that though, I need troops, I need money, and I need influence. My current goal is to usurp Jon Arryn as Hand of the King. Lord Tywin approached me and asked it of me, and it pleases me to do my enemy's desire to feed my own. So there you have it, Arban. My true intentions."

Arban looks at you for a long moment.
"I told you I would make you great, my lord. I can see I was wrong. You will make yourself great. I will merely clear the way." He rises. "Though I would not say these things to other men, you understand. They do not think as we do. That sometimes, the tree of liberty must be watered with blood."

He nods, and bids you good evening.At last, you are alone with your wife
(cont)

>>25728634
>>25728655

Gentlemen. Feel free to continue discussing willaim's motivations, but please, keep it at least mildly civil. This is 4chan. We're all fags here, there's really no point in name calling.

I actually enjoy watching these big arguments, because it shows that we're all invested in the character. And only by talking about it are we going to reach something like an accord.

Hell, none of you have hit on my personal head canon yet, so that's exciting.

>>25728760
Thank God. Our wife is the only sane person in this thread and she's fictional.

>>25728808

...But your in this thread and so is Page who writes her so.

>>25728807
>We're all fags here
Does this mean gay people are fagfags?

>>25728841
They're gayfags, faggotfags, fagfaggots, or gayfaggots.

>>25728841
I think the proper term is gayfags.

>>25728760

You turn to your wife, and notice that she's trembling a little. This...may have been an intense half hour for her, given how quickly she married you.

>comfort her
>point out that she knew you were a hard man
>ask what she wanted to talk about
>other
(I'm aware this is short, really irritating cut-off.)

>>25728834
I never claimed to be sane and Page is running a quest on 4chan. Gotta be a little askew to do that. I say that in the best way possible.

>>25728858

No sir. What they are, is anonfags.

>>25728871
Erm, ask if she's ok?

She knew we were a hard man. Just maybe not that hard.

>>25728871
>point out that she knew you were a hard man
but
>comfort her

>>25728871
WELP. Should have seen that coming. Try to be comforting, I suppose.

"My lady... I am sorry. I haven't been entirely honest with you. One of my many, many sins, I'm afraid. But I promise, not every day will be like this. You know who I am. You know what deeds forged me. You know that you're my wife. But I am your husband and I will do... whatever I possibly can to keep you safe. Even from myself."

>>25728871
"Don't worry, my current plan is to get super rich and watch them wither in envy, nothing too bad."

>>25728871
"I meant what I said about not wanting to kill or perhaps even hurt them. And if you know the first thing about me, you know that I'm not the kind of man who would kill people close to them in the hopes of making them suffer.

I actually quite like ser Jaime, if you can believe it."

>>25728871
>>comfort her

This is exactly what I was worried about.

>>25728904
>>25728924
>>25728933
>>25728934
>>25728939

You step closer to her.
"I am sorry, my lady. I have, perhaps, left unsaid things I should have said. Words were never my strength, I fear. But I swear, this is not how it will be every day. You know who I am. You know what deeds forged me. You are my wife, and I your husband, and I will do all I can to keep you safe. even from myself.
I told you I was hard, I told you that everyday I ride into battle. But I assure you, currently, my plan is to do no more than make as much money as I can, and have them wither in envy. I do not want to kill or harm them. I will harm no innocent to hurt them."

Your wife turns, and there is something...fey in her eyes.

"My lord, if I may be frank?"
"Always."
"I have watched you race, my lord. And seen you fight. I have seen your back stiffen when Lord Tywin is present, your hackles raise at the sight of Robert, and seen you tend a horse when you should have been wooing a lady."
"I took my measure of you long ago. And today I saw it fall."
You open your mouth to object, and she places a finger on your lips.
"For today, I saw you burn. I saw the man you were before you were burdened by another's sins. I saw the glee of a boy, ready to win the next game of knights and bandits. I saw men love you and obey you. I saw you, without a thought or balk, command your closest friends to love and serve me, and our children, with that same fire."
She raises up to kiss you.
"You, my lord, have earned yourself a mighty reward today."

LET'S MOSEY THE FUCK OUT OF THIS ROOM, AND LEAVE YOU AND YOUR WIFE TO YOUR "DISCUSSION", ALRIGHT?

>>25729236

HA! Not a complete failure we remain!

>>25729236
Best wife.

>>25729236
Man our poor bloodsmiths...the sounds their gonna have to put up with. The rumors they'll try to squash. Sadly we will be to busy having happy fun times to notice or care.

>>25729236
That heir is gonna be arriving promptly 9 months from now at this rate.

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>>25729236

So I guess he talked to her about the weather and the strength and quality of the Iron in his lands And by lands I mean pants.

>>25729236

OVER THE NEXT FEW DA-ahem

Over the next few days, you speak with the smiths and foundries, to see about improving your personal forces. To improve ALL of your men's arms and armor would cost a princely sum. (36 wealth), and to do so with castle-forged steel would be even more costly (48 wealth) but they could easily go on a more sedate pace, outfitting a unit a month. (3 or 4 wealth spent per month)

Pending a decision here, your plans will have to tarry until next month, as it's taken some time to get the magistrates and new law keepers organized and situated.

>Decision, and then we proceed

>>25729376

Slow and steady. It isn't like we are in a rush for war.

>>25729376
Definitely slow and steady.

>>25729376
Gotta go... slow and reasonably.

>>25729376
How much does Dreadnaught Armour cost? On one hand, it's gonna be pretty revolutionary and use more metal, on the other hand, we only need 2 different suits.

Either way, let's commission that shit.

Also I want to try and get my hands of a Warpick version of Chicken Sickles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_sickles

>>25729376

Also Castle forged steel all the way.

>>25729428
>>25729415
>>25729397

You acknowledge your smith's words, and insist they begin upgrading your Bloodsmiths first. As your bloodsmiths lack ranged weaponry, they can be outfitted with full upgrades and castleforged steel for only 3 wealth!

new wealth: 61

Progressing forward, find that the next few weeks zip by, with new legal quandaries being posed by your magistrates. As the lord, it is your word that makes the law. You discuss the situation with Arban, who advises you make a standardized set of rulings, so the magistrates understand how you see the law.

Your rulings are:
>Draconian. Those who make trouble get the lash, a blade, or the noose
>Harsh, but fair. Murder is paid in kind, theft looses a hand, slander a fine, etc.
>Utilitarian: Your laws try to force the people to be useful. Murder leads to servitude, thieves must work off the debt
>Just. You command your judges to look at each case by its merits. The poor are not fined as the rich, nor is a man who steals bread to avoid starvation going to be punished as one who steals a horse.
>Lenient. ANy crime that doesn't physically harm another is a fine, physical harm is time in the stocks, murder is just the black.
>Other

Examples may not be 100% accurate, but serve as goalposts. Things that are canon in ASoIaF still work as they should.

>>25729593
>Utilitarian: Your laws try to force the people to be useful. Murder leads to servitude, thieves must work off the debt

>>25729593
>>Harsh, but fair. Murder is paid in kind, theft looses a hand, slander a fine, etc.

Feels more the way of William. Harsh but not unfair.

>>25729593
>Utilitarian
All will serve.

>>25729593
>Murder leads to servitude
Wait how does that work?

Slavery is very illegal in the Seven Kingdoms.

>>25729593
Harsh.

>>25729740
Possibly like taking the black for a crime someone may have committed?

>>25729593
>Harsh, but fair

>>25729740
It's illegal in the United States to, but we still use unpaid prison labor.

>>25729740

Utilitarian

Just to bring it up you typically don't want a murderer building stuff or helping with things because they are willing to murder you. Actually thinking on it how about.

Harsh for the high level crimes like murder/rape/Stealling massive amounts of money.

Utilitarian For the lower level crimes like stealing a lower amount of money. Assault in a emotional situation.

That way we can keep the rep while still being fair.

>>25729863
Changing to this if it's possible to have two different leadership styles.

>>25729593
>Utilitarian
Seems like the best bet

>>25729863
This, pretty much. Utilitarian but with a harsh flare when its needed.

This is me >>25729814
I'm switching to >>25729863

>>25729740
Westeros has a lot of bend in what it will and will not fight about.
Note that thralls are still a thing.

The core rule in Westeros is that you can't buy or trade a person.

You could have it be that anyone found guilty of murder must work for X years in the mines, bearing a brand, to be removed at the end of the service.

And now we have 3 harsh, and 3 ulitilitarian, though the last utilitarian actually wants to split. SO THAT'S WHAT WE'LL DO.

You issue your edicts. Those whose crimes are high in the eyes of the Kingdom: traitors, rapists, murders, thieves of great quanitities face the black, the block, or the crow cage.
Those whose crimes were not so gross and outrageous may extirpate their guilt with labor, suffering, or payment.

Thus your system will push on, grinding out the impurities.

END THREAD 7.

Next time: You start to uncover plots! I point out that you need to buy an heir with influence, so weirdly, you pick when your wife gets pregnant! And you meet someone DANGEROUS!

>>25729980
Waitwaitwait, not only do we get to chose when the wife gets pregnant, but we become less well known for having a kid?

Is our baby going to be half cloaking device or something?

and I archived it!

As ever, feel free to ask questions, chat, anything. I'll be in and out for another hour or so, and check it in the morning if it hasn't died.

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>>25730069
Oh shit, we're going to get an invisible baby!

>>25730069
Think about it this way: If you have an heir, you get a mulligan if you die, since you can start playing the heir.
You're giving up some of your immediate power to have a "save game" file

>>25730121
Why must you kill my dream of having a baby that's 1/2 stealth ship?

>>25729980
>Thus your system will push on, grinding out the impurities.

Ohh I love this line.