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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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Previous thread: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/42740366/

Pastebin shit: http://pastebin.com/2MSV2Y8m
(contains info dumps, summaries, and other crap)

Last session, 2nd Platoon fled Delsau shortly after arriving, due to a warning from a decorated Grossreich tank ace that there was a strong possibility of invasion by the crack units of the Reich soon, and recommended leaving the country.

Not wanting to fight this formidable foe, but not willing to flee duty, the platoon instead retrieved their tanks and broke out to the south, disabling a tank in a small skirmish. Outflanked and outnumbered, the remaining enemy retreated.

You chose to let them flee rather than pursue them, as the objective was to break through to the south and reunite with friendly forces near Blumsburgh, which you left several days ago.

Things are made easier due to the disarray of the front; from what rumors say, despite large gains made by the Imperial forces, they have overextended and are thinly spread. If you are able to make it back to the division (it’s a collection of three regiments and support battalions, I just haven’t mentioned the names of any but the regiments) then all will theoretically be well, but until then you are a lone tank platoon. Your fuel situation, while not ideal, is not in a dangerous place yet.

You have continued for roughly ten kilometers after your skirmish, and the terrain remains a hilly plain. It was twilight when you embarked on your journey back, and now it is getting quite dark. Clouds block out most of the moon and star light; it is easy to ascertain that the night will be as black as pitch.

You and your commanders are equipped with flares and flareguns, normally used for signaling but perfectly able to provide illumination in a pinch. You also have conventional parachute flares, but far less of them.

>set up a perimeter and wait out the night
>keep pressing onwards
>>
>>42869528
>keep pressing onwards
Slowly. Let's use as few illumination as possible.
>>
>>42869528
>keep pressing onwards
Get the running lights on and continue for maybe another 5 kilometers to get out of any search area.

Then we can circle the wagons and get some chow and rest in us.
>>
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>>42869528
>>Keep pressing on.
Use lights sparingly or at low if possible. Turn them off at any sign of enemy movement.
>>
You continue, at half pace, with the lights on. After another five kilometers, you order the platoon to stop. You encountered nothing of note on the way, but as you look around you see lights appear over a hill about half a kilometer away. Turning the tank engines off and listening, you hear the sound of engines and shouting.

An armored car patrol, seemingly looking for somebody.

>Stay still and wait
>Attack
>Other

I’d like to mention that if you have a better plan than the options, feel free to put it up even if there’s no write in option in the post.
>>
>>42870086
>Stay still and wait
Guns up and ready. Manual traverse tracking
>>
>>42870281
This.
>>
>>42870086
>>42870281
This guy's got it right.
>>
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You remain still. Your platoon isn’t in the ideal formation to counter a head on attack, if this patrol chooses to do so, but the enemy vehicles are not tanks at least. Armored cars are much less intimidating than what you had fought before.

Your gunner adjusts the sights with every movement the enemy formation makes, hand on the traverse crank for minute rotations. They are steadily making their way down the road, towards you.

There is a fairly thickly wooded copse at the bottom of the hill they are traversing. Judging from their movements, the enemy has no friendly forces that are stationed there. Whatever they’re looking for, they’re the task force for it.

The hills are generally gentled sloped, but there is a steep section at the foot of the one you are atop of. The significance of this being that your guns cannot traverse low enough to shoot at targets at the bottom of the hill, nor at ones climbing it, without traveling down the perpendicular path. While the armored cars are of little threat far away, at point blank range their guns are able to penetrate your armor.

As you peek out of the hatch once more, you suddenly feel uneasy.In the otherwise silent night, with any action taking place far away, a barely audible sound of brush rustling in the darkness to the front and left of your position is particularly noticeable.
>>
>>42870667
Meant to attach at the end,

>Action?
>>
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>>42870680
>rustling
ah shit bush tanks
In all seriousness take aim and fire at the cars. Have someone check the bushes first though.
>>
>>42870667
Hold fire and send two armed guys to check out the bush while we cover them.
>>
>>42870899
On 2nd thought this is a better idea.
>>
>>42870667
Alright, could I get a distance scale real quick?
>>
>>42870899
In the meantime, this has my support.
>>
“Unknown contact close, about ten meters to the 10 o’clock,” you say over the radio, “Tank 4, send two men to check it out. We’ll keep an eye on the scouts.”

The armored cars are taking their time searching, although they are at the edge of the woods. Some of your tank commanders inform you that their gunners are having difficulty tracking targets.

The two crewmen emerge with a carbine and a submachinegun, and stalk over to where the disturbance was. They look around, but do not take long to come back and address you.
“Somebody was there lieutenant,” one says, “he’s not there anymore. There’s places where somebody was standing on plants. Whoever was there, they left.”

You could have sworn you were looking at the spot the entire time, and saw no further movement. You would say it might have been the wind playing tricks on you, but the night was a remarkably still one.

The cars are beginning to be obscured by the woods. Waiting for them to exit would give you a clearer shot, but less time for them to reach the bottom of the hill, should they choose to act aggressively.

>fire now
>wait for better shots
>other


>>42871152
Mind that I'm not exactly a professional cartographer so excuse any glaring errors in mapmaking.

The enemy is about half a kilometer away; each grid square is about 0.1 kilometer in size.
>>
>>42871233
>>wait for better shots
Shooting through a forest is rather impossible.
>>
>>42871233
>wait for better shots
Is there better spots to set up in the meantime while we wait for them to move? If so we should set up better.
>>
>>42871352
Depends on your definition of "better".

There isn't really a better position to fire on them without quite a bit of movement, in which case you may as well move backwards and wait for them to come up the hill.

However, once you start up the tanks, they'll probably hear you because your machines are not exactly quiet starters. So really it depends on when you want them to know you're definitely around.
>>
>>42871441
Ah ok.
>>
>>42871233
>Someone was standing here
Uh oh, I think it might have been someone scouting ahead.
>fire now
But stay alert as he could've been sent by a tank division.
>>
You order your commanders to wait until the armored car patrol comes out on the other side of the woods before opening fire. Ideally, until all of them are visible. You decide to save your flares; armored cars are small fry and you may need them later down the path.

The cars pick their way through the woods slowly. You hear the mysterious bush rustler twice more. You are tempted to take some sort of action to illuminate the absolute blackness around you, but the threat of the cars noticing is at the back of your mind.

>take action to expose the bush molester
>leave the foliage fondler to whatever they’re doing
>>
>>42871633
>>leave the foliage fondler to whatever they’re doing
>>
>>42871633
get someone to stick their head in that direction, see what's up
>>
>>42871663
Seconded
>>
You look out towards the sound. As before, the night is simply too dark for human vision to penetrate into the brush.

Whatever. Whoever is skulking in the bushes can wait for your special attention. The lights of the cars finally peek out of the edge of the forest. While they are reorganizing, you order your tanks to open fire.

The darkness is torn asunder by the flash of fire. The tracing elements of your shells burn crimson, and a volley of shells and heavy caliber machine gun bullets plunge towards the enemy.

Five d100s, if you will. First come first serve.
>>
Rolled 95, 4, 24, 24, 57 = 204 (5d100)

>>42871784
>>
>>42871784
>>
>>42871784
>>
Rolled 33, 87, 97, 26, 87 = 330 (5d100)

>>42871784
>>
Your own tank’s shot falls sickeningly short; it has significantly less force than normal.

“Shitty shell,” your gunner comments, “More AP!” the loader complies as quickly as he can.
Your 13mm hull machine gun, much to your chagrin, has difficult depressing to the proper angle. Your hull gunner tries to shoot anyway, with predictable results.

The barrage mostly hits, but the effect is not great. Tank 4’s 13mm machine gun, mounted in its turret, has a much better depression angle and one of the enemy armored cars is torn apart by a storm of burning bullets. No crew emerge.

The other tanks score hits, but they are glancing hits. Tank 2’s 47mm shell makes a nasty gouge down the side of one of the enemy cars, but the damage appears to be minimal.

The armored cars begin to reverse immediately. They quickly into the trees, lights turned off. The destroyed vehicle smolders, but does not burn with any light; the forest is dark once more.

The road is the only way forwards. Doubling back would take time you are not certain you have, as well as more fuel.

>Pursue the enemy
>Give the enemy time to leave, so you can avoid fighting them when you advance.
>Fire off a flare to expose the enemy’s position and then try to destroy them at range
>>
>>42872116
>>Fire off a flare to expose the enemy’s position and then try to destroy them at range

Really no choice now. Better to throw up a flare that anyone can see than let the scouts report.
>>
>>42872116
Spot them with a flare.
>>
“I’m firing a flare,” you inform your platoon, “fire on any visible Grossreich vehicles.”

You load a parachute flare into your flaregun, one of three. Aiming for the air above the forest, you fire the flare over it. A searing orange star appears, scorching the woods with light. While not distinct, movement is clear in the woods. You give the command to fire.

>5d100, once more.
>>
>>42872313
>>
Rolled 85, 43, 29, 37, 34 = 228 (5d100)

>>42872313
>>
Your next barrage is similar to the last in results. There is much fire, but not many shots find their targets. The light helps, but deep shadows still make the shapes of the enemy vehicles unclear. A loud clash rings out as a shell hits home on metal, but there is no indication of catastrophic damage.

>Okay seeing how this is going, give me three sets of the above fire order. That’s how many you’ll get unless you want to pop another flare.
>>
Rolled 4, 60, 29, 95, 99 = 287 (5d100)

>>42872501
>>
Rolled 51, 71, 3, 63, 48 = 236 (5d100)

>>42872501
>>
Rolled 8, 90, 17, 75, 57 = 247 (5d100)

>>42872501
>>
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Your crews quickly load and fire another fusillade. This set is much more heartening. You see the shot from your own tank create a shower of sparks as it blows through what appears to be the turret of one of the cars. The shot of one of your light tanks pierces another, and it catches fire. The new source of illumination makes several shapes clearer-a morbid torch.

The improved vision has a marked effect on your own gunner’s aim; the second shot that flies out pierces the car you had hit before with a loud crack. The crew has had enough, apparently; the driver leaps out of the vehicle and scrambles away.

The last vehicle is perforated with a pair of shots from Tank 3’s cannon. You fire your own shot as a sign of solidarity, but only manage to strike off the wheel of an already defeated vehicle.

As far as you can tell, the armored car column has been handily defeated. You take a look around for any new occurences, and see what appears to be a pile of branches sitting behind your formation, illuminated by the flare.

He wears a cloak covered with a sparse mesh, with branches and other foliage weaved through it. Underneath its hood, you can spot the helm of a Strosvald infantryman. His face is obscured by a black kerchief. In his hands is a rifle like any other infantryman’s save for one particular detail. A black cylinder, augmented with knobs and dials; a magnifying scope. He notices that you have seen him, and lazily walks up to your tank.
“The dogs of the von Blum have long left. Yet here you are.” He says in a rasping voice, “You are more famous than you know, rogues.”

“How do you know who we are?” you ask.

“As I said, the dogs of the von Blum are long gone. You also fired upon my pursuers. My thanks for that, even if they would have never caught me.”

>Make conversation, other than “and who the hell are you supposed to be” because that’s the default
>>
>>42872906
>Judging by the scope you're a marksman or scout?
Reminds me of how the IRL German Karabiner rifle was accurate enough that all it needed was a scope to snipe.
>>
>>42872906
>>Make conversation, other than “and who the hell are you supposed to be” because that’s the default
Need a lift? Know anywhere we could snag some fuel?

Also...
>Captcha: Select all images below that match the one on the right.
...Fuck you, Captcha, you lazy ass piece of shit.
>>
>>42873001
At least you didn't get street signs.
>>
>>42872906
Offer a ride and ask for any intel he might have.
>>
The way he keeps referring to the von Blums must be concerning your regimental markings. You make a mental note to change it at some point; it isn’t fooling anybody anymore. You’re unsure of what to change it to, but you’ll think on it some.

“So who are you?” you ask the mysterious bush man, “judging from your weapon, you’re a scout, or a sniper?”

“Yes,” he says, “and I am Gefreiter Bertram Kolt. You are the first friendly faces I have seen in a few days. The division pulled out of Blumsburgh. I went ahead on a scouting mission one day, and when I returned, there was nothing but the rats of the Reich. I have wandered ever since.”

”I see,” you nod. “So do you need a ride? We’re looking for the division. Do you know where they went? Or where we could find fuel?”

“They were going east,” he says, “and to the north. Not very far, though. We were to try and escape into Plisseau, I think. It would have been more prudent to break through to the east and back into friendly lines, but they’re too concentrated. Naturally, suicide was decided to not be a viable option. If you need fuel, there are still depots in the city, but the city is in chaos. Unless you enjoy fending off looters, it would be safer to take the road further down. There is a small way to the east from there. If you would suffer my presence, I will accompany you.”

>Head down into Blumsburgh and get fuel
>Go straight for the last known position of the division
>>
>>42873304
How much fuel we got? If we have a good amount then no point risking our lives otherwise we'll have to deal with looters .
>>
>>42873304
>>Go straight for the last known position of the division
>>
>>42873304
>Head down into Blumsburgh and get fuel
We had tanks and machine guns, though if it's a city I would have preferred if we had infantry support.
>>
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>>42873408
>Urban combat
Well fugg this is gonna suck but we need fuel. Signing off as it's 2 am here. Good luck fellas.
>>
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>>42873304
>You’re unsure of what to change it to, but you’ll think on it some.
As if you don't have an idea what bored, lonely military men would do...
>>
>>42873494
Biggest problem will be Molotovs. Seeya
>>
>>42873402
You probably need that information to make an educated decision yes.

Your tanks are about half full. If you don't make any strenous combat manuevers, you have about fifty to sixty kilometers worth of fuel. You are about thirty five kilometers from Blumsburgh.
>>
>>42873566
Any chance of siphoning any usable fuel from the armored car wrecks?
>>
>>42873605
Likely not. They seem to be wither burning or leaking
>>
>>42873304
>>Head down into Blumsburgh and get fuel
Fuel is a tankers blood.
>>
The location of the division is unknown and your fuel levels aren’t at a place where you think you can take risks. You decide to take the platoon down to Blumsburgh. No matter how tenacious the unruly populace was, you had tanks. Even the most thickheaded thug had a healthy respect for cannons, machine guns, and rolled homogenous armor plate.

You briefly consider how you’re going to tell your new guest that your tank is already quite crowded, but the need never comes up.

“I prefer the fresh air.” He says, “I will just hang on the outside.”

“Who were you talking to?” Maddalyn asks as you duck back inside.

“A hitchhiker.” You say, “This one can shoot though.”

Maddalyn seems somewhat hurt by your comment, even though you meant nothing by it. “I’d help if I knew how!”

You’ll think of something at some point. You know what some of your crew would recommend but you’d rather preserve her dignity.

Not that she was a buxom temptress in any case. In fact, she was quite slender and small, and her face had a boyish look to it that made lecherous thoughts in general uncomfortable; she looked younger than her years.
Overall she was rather plain, thinking about it; perhaps the grime didn’t help. There was one thing that may have been an upside though.

>I do like redheads
>not my type
>>
>>42873898
>I do like redheads
Extra spicy, just the way I like 'em.
>>
>>42873898
>>I do like redheads
Invite her to learn artillery tactics. That way, if we're out of the fight, she could take our place.
>>
>>42873898
>I do like redheads
Hey, ask her which sister of hers we were supposed to get married to.
>>
>>42873898
>>I do like redheads

Well. I do.
>>
>>42873898
>I do like redheads
QM, it's not like there's a choice.
>>
>>42874256
Well, if it was between her and a Nordic/eastern Europe/Russian-like girl I'd have to seriously think about it.
>>
>>42874256
I dunno, have you seen the ass on the driver of Pz. m/28 number 623? It's like a work of art...
>>
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>>42874354
Tank 3 did happen to actually hit the most in the last skirmish
>////

“What are you looking at?” she notices your continued observation.

“Uh, nothing,” you say, “just thinking.”

“About what?”

Stein, your gunner, reaches down and daintily lifts a wavy red lock from her head. “About these, hm?” You had hoped it wouldn’t be quite that obvious.

“No,” you restrain yourself, “about what you can do. We can train you, to gun or load, just in case.”

“I’d appreciate that, if you have time.” Maddalyn says, leaning to the side and letting her hair fall from Stein’s finger.

“I remembered something, actually. I was engaged to a member of your family, Maddalyn, I was hoping you could help me remember. Stein asked, and we need to clear something up.”

Maddalyn is quiet for a moment, pondering something. “Sorry, I don’t remember. I’m not told such things. My family doesn’t appreciate some of the things I was up to…you know, in Delsau.”

“Why did you want to leave there, anyway?” you press on, “The whole point of going there was to meet with people there, wasn’t it?”

“The bastard families are…rough natured,” she says warily, “I do not mean to imply anything, but a group of armed men with tanks makes a much better impression than just me. Especially if they decide they want to force a point.”

So that was that.

You pass by the wrecks in the road. It is quite late at night, and when you try to dismount to see what can be salvaged from the cars, some shots ring out and ricochet off the cars.
Apparently some of the crew object to your mischief.

Bertram shoulders his rifle and fires a single shot, saying that there’s four now.
You thank him but you’d rather not linger.

The city is clear by now, as the hills dissolve into more familiar forests. There are also three large, familiar shapes up ahead.

>hey, check it out, unfinished lineart! Give me a minute so I can draw up the map.
>>
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>>42874256
I'm not sure what you mean.

Unlike every other Grossreich group you’ve encountered in your trip, these tanks are not moving. They are massive, imposing, and seem to be waiting. Waiting, if you could guess, for you.

You look around at the surrounding terrain. The woods grow thick on each side; they seem impenetrable; one could probably go through them with enough time and hard work, but thick forests, slow movement and enemy presence do not make for good tank country.

The enemy tanks are spread out somewhat, presumably to try and cover more ground. They are approximately two kilometers away, and have their lights on. They are apparently unafraid of stating their presence in the area.

>write in for plan. I'm going to take a bit of time off to eat dinner.
>keep in mind that you don't have to eliminate the enemy if you don't think you can. The only objective is to get past them.
>>
There's a hill to the right we can use. We can't outgun them at range, we need to outmaneuver them, if we can get behind the hill we'll have an advantage.
>>
>>42874667
Alrighty, Tank 4 takes position at the upper corner of F4 and F5. While they more there, Tanks 2 and 5 hide in the treeline at D7 and Tanks 1 and 3 first advance directly east, then north to in the treeline at the south side of E3.

Tank 4 advances like a forwards scout, then when attacked, retreats and pulls the enemy tanks across the clearing in the center of the map at the road.

Once they reach the middle, spring the ambush with both flanks attacking. When the first volley is off, Tanks 1 and 2 both advance to get behind the enemy and cut off their retreat.
>>
>>42874667
I say we move straight North and evade them completely. They seem to bee super heavy tanks.

>Straight NORTH
>>
Back now

>>42874869
>>42875069
>>42875294

Well.

These are three pretty different options. Could I ask for people to vote on one or another?
>>
>>42875782
I'll go with what >>42875294 is proposing.
>>
>>42875069
I'll bite
>>
>>42874667

Maybe we can send Bertram to scout or sabotage the hostile tank positions
>>
>>42873954
>>42874020
>>42874046
>>42874201
>>42874256
Always was a sucker for a redhead
>>
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Alright not to shit all over you other guys but this guy pretty much did exactly what I wanted you guys to try, so please don't mind it too much.

>>42877330

You open the hatch and get the attention of your recently acquired reinforcement.
“Bertram,” you say, “do you see those tanks up ahead?”

He glances up, then back down. “Yes. You want a closer look?”

“I thought that if you were able to sneak around us for as long as you did, you’d be able to do it again. You can, right?”

“Please,” Bertram scoffs while sliding off the tank, leaves scattering from his cloak, “I could do it during the day; I could do it if I was on fire. The only reason even you saw me was because I wanted you to.”

Cocky prick. At least he was confident, you think, as he slinks away. His boasts appear to have merit; as soon as he reaches the underbrush you lose track of where he is.

Roughly an hour and a half passes. You begin to feel anxious; Bertram hasn’t sent any sort of signal, not that you agreed on any, nor did you expect him to do anything that would compromise his movements.

“Behind you.”

You turn around, bewildered, to see Bertram behind the tank.

“How did you-“

“Magic,” he says. You guess he was being sarcastic but he seems to be incapable of adopting that tone. “Speaking of magic, do you want to see me make a tank disappear?”

He doesn’t wait for your response. He takes aim with his rifle, pitching it higher than would be reasonable, and fires. A few seconds pass, and then one of the giant tanks suddenly collapses into the ground.

Huh.

>Keep heading forward, it was a ruse
>Double back; might be a trap
>>
>>42877687

If it was a trap Bertram would have let us know. Let's go.
>>
>>42877687
>Keep heading forward, it was a ruse
When in doubt, charge.
>>
>>42877779
Yeah, he's good enough that he would have noticed.
>>
1/2

Once the concept of inflatable tanks managed to work its way through your thought process, you assume Bertram saw nothing else of note. You, of course, confirm this.

“No,” he says, “Not so much as anybody watching the things. I looked around a bit after, nothing much except a bunch of armed goons looking like they wanted to mug somebody.”

“Are they still there?” you ask.

“In a matter of speaking.”

You think you understand what he means, and you get moving quickly. You get a closer look at the false armor, and notice things you think you really should have noticed earlier. Their swaying in the wind should have been visible even from your position, but you suppose that nobody would really be looking to see whether or not tanks shifted slightly in the wind.

Shortly after passing the tanks you see what Bertram was talking about. You didn’t hear any gunshots, from what you recall, and now you see why. The remains of four gunmen are laid at the sides of the road, each with fatal stab wounds.

“They were spaced out.” Bertram explains quietly, “the last ones would have put up a fight, but they were surprisingly easy to coerce once I had a hostage.”

You ask who the hostage was. He points to the second body.

“…who were you with, again?” you ask Bertram.

“34th Infantry Regiment. Reconnaissance battalion.”

You get the feeling he’s leaving several important facts out.

You roll into a suburb of the city. Bertram knocks on your hatch, and advises you to stop.

“No further tonight. Let me look around while you rest.”

You can’t really think of anything to stop him as he jumps off and heads into the night. You instead arrange a perimeter and sleep shifts among the crew. You see a few dark shapes peek around corners, but they vanish just as quickly. Perhaps with one tank they would be tempted to make a move, but not even the insane would try to take on five.
>>
“So the spook just walked off?” Stein inquires, “pretty suspicious of him.”

“Honestly,” you respond, “the longer I spend around him the more I want him to leave. He’s absurdly useful, but…he’s too odd.”

Your loader shrugs. “May as well keep him around as long as he’s useful, right? He’s on our side, after all.”

You hear gunshots go off relatively close to your position. This is not odd; you have heard a few since entering. The city center is a chaotic anarchy.

You decide that you should rest while you can. It’s been a long night. You go to sleep while you hear the crew deliberate on what the new emblem should be.

Your sleep feels like it ends immediately, but it has been long enough that blue morning light is shining through the vision glasses. The loader has shaken you awake.

“The bush man is back,” he says, “Well, he’s not a bush anymore. He’s back anyway.”

You look out at the sniper. He has put away his mesh cloak, and now bears the light grey uniform of a Strosvald infantryman.

“There are several options,” he starts, “not all of them are ideal, from what I can see, but I will leave it up to you.”

>commandeered military motor pool: bandits, including former soldiers, have looted damaged military equipment and have made makeshift fortifications around a former military supply depot

>militia fuel station A: a militia formed to combat bandits has control over a gas station. They may be able to be negotiated with, but are unlikely to give up their product for a reasonable price

>militia fuel station B: similar to A, but their organization does not have as much power. Completely unwilling to give up their fuel, but can likely be overpowered easily.
>>
>>42878687
Once again I forget to add something.

There was meant to be a prompt to come up with/vote on what the new emblem should be, if you want it to be changed. May as well do that in this thread sooner rather than later.
>>
>>42878687
>>commandeered military motor pool: bandits, including former soldiers, have looted damaged military equipment and have made makeshift fortifications around a former military supply depot
We'll let Militia A have the remains once we're done fueling up.

>>42878720
Maddalyn as an animu catgirl.

Seriously, though, something with connotations of chivalry and knightly honor, something that'd fit with having a noble girl in a tank.
>>
>>42878687

Let's go remove bandits and deserters and reacquire rightful possession of our nation's military equipment. If they're just deserters and profiteers they'll have low morale and no motivation to stick around once the shells start flying.
>>
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>>42878795
>Seriously, though, something with connotations of chivalry and knightly honor, something that'd fit with having a noble girl in a tank.
>>
>>42878880
>Having a painting of Maddalyn wearing nothing but lingerie and a commander's hat while smoking a cigar as our tank emblem
...Good enough.
>>
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>>42878964
I'm having second thoughts. It's a bit trashy having that on your tank while the person it's depicting is also riding it. So something more slick
>>
>>42879001
How about something a bit more, I dunno... Princessy?
>>
>>42879099
Maybe something similar to what's on this guy's arm?
>>
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>>42879099
>>
>>42879627
> We Ace Combat now
>>
>>42879627
goddammit wrong pic again. Though it was still appropriate
>>
Been planning out a map

“We’ll go after the bandits,” you say, “the militia can take over once we’re through. Better them than outlaws.”

“Very well,” Bertram says, “If you wait for a few hours, I can put together a map of their position.”

You agree to this.

“About these militias,” you continue, “how is their relationship with these bandits?”

“Hostile.” Bertram says quickly, “They had an interesting engagement last night. They are at relatively equal terms of power, but only the bandits are able to make raids and other offensive movements. Were you thinking of working with them?”

>Try to negotiate cooperation with the militia
>They’re untrained civilians, they’ll get in the way; better to execute the operation ourselves.
>>
>>42879699
>>Try to negotiate cooperation with the militia
Failing that, just ask them if we can grab some fuel and munitions from the fort and head out.
>>
>>42879699
>Try to negotiate cooperation with the militia
Infantry support is a godsend in a city fight. If all else fails, just tell them that we need fuel and we have tanks to go get it, if they don't help us, they just have to stay out of our way and not shoot at us.

Hell, maybe we'll find another tank and volunteers to crew it. Our gunner is a tank mechanic right?
>>
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You manage to arrange a meeting with the local militia. It is actually not very difficult; their watchmen had noted the entrance of a tank platoon, and had been incredibly concerned. When you come forward with the proposal of cooperation, their leaders nearly jump for joy.

One of their leaders was a former military officer, following the von Blums but helping the militia after the city collapsed. He apparently used to be the commander of a tank company, but his entire company was destroyed fighting the loyalists in one catastrophic ambush.

You wonder what devious person could have done that.

In any case, despite you remembering his very distinct voice, he appears to have no recollection of you. So much the better that you recently had your markings painted over in planning for a new one.

Bertram returns just before noon. You and the militia commanders plan for the attack. The objective is the Motor Pool; while an enemy counterattack is guaranteed, it being a very important structure in their base, the militia is willing to throw everything they have into keeping it if you manage to capture it. Wary of the risks, they are not supporting you with everything yet; however, you have a smattering of support. Three squads of nine civilian militiamen, four trucks hastily armored with bolted on boiler plate, and a squad of former military men. From their dress, they are, like their commander, former tank crews, armed with weapons formerly stored in their tanks.

Bertram produces a map with patrol patterns; the bandits have two teams of three makeshift armored trucks, with anti-tank guns bolted into the beds. They patrol every two hours, each starting within an hour of the other starting, and their patrols are completed in an hour.

>input: assault plan
>>
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>>42880107
How embarassing, I didn't save the new version.

Disregard that map. Not much difference but still.
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>"makeshift fortifications"
>a company's worth of anti tank artillery in compact 360 degree defensive positions

GG
>>
>>42880107
My first thought it to draw a mobile patrol out, the North one. Engage from the treeline, remain out of range of the stationary emplacements.
At that point you rush south and destroy the Northern and Western emplacements. Infantry move in and finish off the Southern gun.

Tanks split up. 2 tanks remain outside the Motor Pool. 2 remain with the infantry.
The 2 outside withdraw, ready to react to the enemy attempting to encircle the motor pool from the North, South, and West
>>
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>>42880145
My suggestion.

Seems our best bet is to push through the outpost under construction. We wait until the patrols are the furthest from it, then send in the veteran militia followed closely by out tanks to take out the 25mm position.

When that happens, two civilian militia squads rush to take the southernmost AT gun.

At the same time, the remaining two squads, our tanks, and three of the trucks rush for the road, leaving one truck behind to secure the outpost.

As soon as we hit the road, Tank 2 stops and preps to intercept the east patrol and tanks 3 and 5 as well as one truck take up the marked positions, (hopefully under cover or forested) to protect against a push from the main compound.

In the meantime of that, Tank 1 and Tank 4, as well as the two remaining truck a civil squad and the vet squad bum-rush the motor pool and hit it from behind, trying to secure it as fast as possible and turning the guns to face the main compound.

The civil squad that took the southern gun should, if able, drag it back to the outpost and turn it, and the gun already there, against the east patrol and the obstacle course.

Criticisms, concerns? Let me know if this is foolhardy.
>>
>>42880636

My only concern is the range of the enemy's guns from the main compound; if we don't have solid cover our blocking position on the road might end up being right in front of them so we'd be sitting there getting fired on from their strongest position.

Instead of that maybe only the infantry element attacks via the outpost under construction since they'll be a harder target for the main compound's guns; once they've crossed the distance and attacked the motor pool from the rear our armor attack from the buildings to the west and overrun the position but staying out of range and sight of the main compound.
>>
>>42880745
The infantry might not capture in time before the patrol comes back. They could get shreeded without some kind of armor.
>>
>>42880636
Alright if there aren't any alternate plans people want to debate in...let's say maybe half an hour, We'll go with this one.

If it's too late for some people I'll delay the operation til tomorrow as long as the thread doesn't die.
>>
>>42881260
Man I always go back on what I say don't I

I'm getting pretty tired so here's how this'll go. If this thread's still up when I wake up again, I'll force myself to keep on trucking til its done. If it ain't, we finish this next saturday.

Don't feel pressured to bump the thread if you won't be awake in around four to six hours though.
>>
>>42881919
Just move us on, ai don't think anyone else is gonna put one forward
>>
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>>42880745
This
>>42880977
But if the patrols get closr before they capture it we'll need to move in for support. Just mind the AT guns.
>>
>>42882393
But that will takw time to catch up and wven longer to handle the east patrol. If we move in with the infantry, we could provide immediate assistance
>>
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>>42869528
Have the militia supplant their firepower with molotovs to deal with any emplaced tanks or guns since they have a surplus of petrol
>>
>>
>>42882393
remove ayyy lmao.
>>
bump
>>
>>42883060
This, we're in early war so tanks might not have the required protection to prevent molotovs from killing them. Also it's hard to fire an AT gun while it and you are on fire.
>>
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>>42885098
Agreed. Also bump.
>>
bump
>>
Don't forget to put our sniper to work. Let him supress the crew of the AT gun at the outpost, then hit the ones at the main compound.
>>
Well that was a longer siesta than planned
Let’s get this shit done.

The plan is discussed and shared among the unit commanders. Rehearsals would be ideal, but there is simply no time. There is also a lack of radios; the tank commanders are able to use their radios and flares, but lone infantry will have to use mirrors and flags.

There is an outpost under construction that appears to be the weak point in the enemy defenses. With the overwhelming firepower of the tanks, it is deemed the ideal point to punch through the perimeter and outflank the anti-tank positions before the bandits can react.

Once the outpost is taken, a white flag (a bedsheet) will be hung from the observation tower in it, upon which two of the three citizen militias will use it as a springboard for an assault into the lone gun position to the outpost’s west. With enough speed, this will leave a huge gap in the enemy defenses to exploit.

The force is assembled in the urban terrain to the southeast of the bandit’s compound. There is an aura of confidence about your allies of convenience, despite their general lack of experience.

You look through your binoculars at the outpost. The 25mm position is nearly invisible, as would be expected. The 25mm cannon, while quite obsolete against modern tank armor, is known for being incredibly small and close to the ground, lending it a natural ease for concealment.

The time when the patrols are furthest from your objective comes. The operation is ready to begin.

>Immediately open fire on the outpost and have your squads advance under cover of fire

>have the veterans try to get as close as possible and only open fire once they are fired upon
>>
>>42887427
>>Immediately open fire on the outpost and have your squads advance under cover of fire
>>
Forgot that the two things were supposed to be happening at the same time. Had just woken up, meh.

You tell the antsy veteran squad made up of former tank crewmen that, on your signal, they would charge the outpost.

Your signal would be shooting the hell out of the outpost, which you begin immediately afterwards, the veterans scrambling out immediately afterwards.

You had been given an estimate of approximately 20 men in the outpost, but you shred it surprisingly quickly. You don’t even see the anti-tank gun fire. The crew turned militia stop occasionally, in cover of convenience, but they do not deign to fire even once. Not that you know if anything it moving, of course. The whole of the outpost is drenched in dust kicked up by machine gun bullets.

After a solid two minutes of blowing the utter shit out of the outpost, you let the dust clear.
The observation tower falls over with a creak and a smash. Hopefully an alternate signal would be understood.

There is lingering gunfire from the west, the citizen militia group taking out the other southern anti-tank position.

>Move in and help them destroy it
>They can handle it, and the enemy is sure as hell aware of us, stick with the plan and head for the road.
>>
>>42887842
>>They can handle it, and the enemy is sure as hell aware of us, stick with the plan and head for the road.
>>
quick question, are AT grenades around yet?
they showed up ~1938 iirc
>>
>>42888008
Stick with the plan.
>>
>>42887842
>They can handle it, and the enemy is sure as hell aware of us, stick with the plan and head for the road.
>>
>>42888036
Technically, if you consider a lashed together bundle of explosives that you throw in a tank's treads or on top of it an anti tank grenade. Strosvald has no specialized anti tank grenade, so you won't be running into any here at least.

You doubt that eighteen riflemen would have overwhelming difficulty against one anti-tank gun. You push onwards, seeing getting to the objective as a more pressing matter regardless.

You are closely followed by three of the armored trucks, one remaining at the outpost to deter anybody coming to retake the position. Some of the militia were unhappy to lose their armored support, but you were able to tide them over with a brief lecture on concentration of firepower.

You come to the small copse between the main compound and the motor pool. The main compound is much more heavily armed, and the guns are much better dug in. However, the main compound is not your concern right now, so you wisely leave it be, instead using the obscuring trees as a position from which to intercept any reinforcements.

You leave half your vehicle force in this position, ready to intercept any patrols coming back, as well. Your own tank, as well as one of your light tanks, Tank 4, and two of the armored trucks, loaded with the veteran squad and the remaining squad of citizen militia.

There is still shooting coming from the south of you. It appears more difficulty is being had than you expect, but the shots from the anti-tank gun have long ceased.

>wait for the militiamen to finish off the position before going in with both groups
>keep the initiative and attack the motor pool
>>
>>42888293
>>keep the initiative and attack the motor pool

They'll have to deal. Speed is of the essence right now.
>>
>>42888293
I was referring to shaped charge grenades
Bundled charges have been used since 1917
>>
>>42888293
>keep the initiative and attack the motor pool
We must have faith in our allies
>>
Rolled 6 (1d100)

You turn about and begin moving towards the compound. You’ve only done it once before, but armored attacks to the rear have been good enough experiences that you’re confident in doing it again.

The motor pool is covered with canvasses, shielding it from rain. It is held up by several posts. You think of the time the mess tent collapsed in basic training.

You look further in and spot an alarming sight. Two tanks, identical to your own Pz.32, are rolling out of the motor pool, towing yet another one. The presence of enemy tanks is quite surprising and unprecedented.

The lead takes a shot at you and your cohorts before you can react.
>>
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>>42888340
Time to Blitzkrieg.
>>
You hear a crack followed by a cacophony of clanking sounds as your tank slides to the left.

Your track has been shot out.

You’d better do something fast.

>Roll 2d100 to shoot these fuckers
>Alternatively, go for an alternative and possibly goofy plan
>>
>>42888539
Hopefully the dice work for once.
>>
>>42888293
The armor on some common tanks can be penetrated by what is essentially HMG fire, right?
>>
>>42888551
Damn dice, yell at them claiming to be friendlies and take aim. Hopefully they get distracted long enough for us to shoot.
>>
>>42888293
shoot the tanks while having the hull mg take out the support posts to collapse the canvas's and blind the gunner
>>
>>42888700
If you guys want this, roll a d100 for me please.
Otherwise roll 2.
>>
Rolled 89 (1d100)

>>42888964
>>
>>42888964
high or low good?
>>
Rolled 55 (1d100)

>>42888964
So late to the party
>>
>>42888964
Also, tank 4 needs to get behind ours or rush off to the side with trucks.

And radio Tank 2 that as soon as they deal with the patrol we need them at our position
>>
You kick your hull gunner. “Shoot the posts! Now!”

He obliges without asking why, thankfully, laying down a burst with the 13mm machine gun as the main gun fires a shot. The main cannon misses pitifully, as the inertia of the tank throws off the shot, but the canvas tent falls slowly as the supporting post is blown apart. Tank 4 seems to have seen this, and follows your lead, completing the collapse of that side of the tent. The battlefield has turned into a lumpy pillowcase. The militia, sensing an opening, jump off their trucks are charge into the fray.

>stay and beat the pillowcase into shape
>Have your other forces go around
>alternate plans of action
>also, dismount or not

>>42889012
low
>>
>>42889220
>>alternate plans of action
Yell to capture the tanks we need as many as possible.

Dismount and try to fix the tracks.
>>
>>42889220
>>stay and beat the pillowcase into shape
>>
>>42889220
assuming that the tanks are the only enemies in the area, have the militia and light tank go around the trapped tanks while having a squad of militia toss a grenade in a hatch or something.
We don't want to use our main gun because we might ammorack them and now we /need/ spare parts for our damaged tank
And if they surrender we now have two new tanks to dick around with
>>
>>42889220
>alternate plans of action
We need to go around to take out or capture the AT guns. The other trucks and squads can secure the tanks or compound, but carefully.

>>42889373
This might not work, as they would have to cut a hole in the tarp to get to the hatches.
>>
the militia still has the molotovs, right?

Have them threaten the tank crews with them so they surrender, if not light them up
>>
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>>42889559
This option involves fire therefore I support it.
Captcha do you have a street sign fetish?
>>
Was temporarily indisposed.

The idea of capturing new equipment is quite appealing, but the prospective armor is getting away. One fires its cannon, but to no avail; the new hole vanishes among waves of coarse fabric. There is a likely possibility that the covering will get caught in something and tear, but that would still not be the solution to their predicament; it would be even worse if it managed to get bundled in the treads.

You instruct the citizen militia squad to follow them, and try and obstruct them or otherwise force them to surrender. A tank’s greatest weakness is its top, and the militia’s improvised incendiary devices would illustrate to the enemy the consequences of not taking the easy route.
They attempt to make some sort of contact with the enemy to negotiate, but there is too much insulation and the enemy is too intent on escaping.

>cut through and force the point
>try and obstruct their escape route
>find some other way to stop them
>>
>>42890051
>find some other way to stop them
Shoot to detrack the tank they're towing. Give em dead weight to drag.
>>
>>42890051
have the militia get on top of the tank and bang on the commanders hatch

If they are stupid and open the hatch to shoot at them they can be dealt with by shooting into the tank without destroying the insides with fire/ grenades
If they don't surrender have them start shooting and bayoneting into the viewports
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>>42890051
after this skirmish is over and we have an entire motorpool at our disposal we should have some Schurzen and salvaged armor plate added to our tank
>>
One then the other I suppose.

It’s clear that pleasant conversation was never an option.

You tell the gunner to aim for a conspicuous, twisting bundle.

Roll 1d100
>>
Rolled 6 (1d100)

>>42890805
>>
Rolled 96 (1d100)

>>42890805
>>
>>42890894
nice
>>
>>42890909
Not nice.
>>
>>42891012
Good thing he rolled first.

The bundle twists and tears, revealing a spoked wheel. The gunner makes a perfect shot, and the wheel is crumpled into a scrap metal pretzel. The second tank begins screeching along the ground, one side of it immobile. It only takes seconds for the lineup to become an impossible maze of tanks and fabric mounds.

As the column is forcibly halted, the militiamen spring into action. A crowbar pries open the commander’s hatch of one. When it opens, one of the militiamen, recoils, holding his chest as a shot is fired out of the hatch. A burly ally quickly reaches into the tank and yanks out the bandit, tossing him like a toy before reaching in to pull out another. The tank is rapidly divested of its crew, and no attempts at negotiation are attempted with the others; a submachinegunner simply tilts the gun into the hatches and empties it.

You receive radio reports from your platoon. Tank 2 was able to destroy a car in the returning patrol; the others scattered and fled. Confusion apparently reigns in the bandit leadership, as no counterattack has been organized.

The militia do not wait for your instruction to head into the base. You hear the brutal sound of close quarters combat ensuing as your allies converge upon the rear of the enemy positions. Soon, what few prisoners are taken have been bound and thrown into a truck, with guns being dragged around back to face the bandit band’s main compound. You fire a red flare into the air, signaling success so the rest of the militia can move in. This place will likely be a battleground for some time afterwards, but you seem to have won for the moment.

>Your platoon rendezvous back at the motor pool. Address any actions you want to take or things you want to look for. For your assistance, the militia is willing to let you have a share of the spoils
>>
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>>42891198
Spare parts and fuel are a priority. I like >>42890593's idea though I don't think it's possible. Maybe grab some extra flares.
>>
>>42891198

All the fuel we can carry and repairs. Maybe some bolted on armour. Also ammunition. Maybe trade some light for medium tanks.

>Resupply
>Repair
>Loot
>>
>>42891198
have some of the militia help with replacing our broken track and weld some schurzen onto our light tanks to help against HMG fire

Take a shitload of spare track linkage and fix it to our hulls as improvised armor

See if we can convince the militia to let us take a tank with us, if not at least take a towed AT gun with us
>>
>>42891519
This
>>
>>42891297
Flares, you say?
>>
>>42891198
We'll also need all the rations, water, spare parts and fuel we can carry. Also ask them if they have a mechanic who can fix tanks we can bring with us. At this point I don't care if it's a civiie or former military, or whatever, weneed another mechanic.

Oh yeah, and ask for paint so we can put on a new emblem.
>>
The fuel and ammunition are handed over with no trouble. The subject of trading tanks, however, requires more negotiation. The militia leaders are adamant that one of the medium tanks is worth two of the light ones, despite that meaning you would be down a vehicle.

There are no facilities for cutting tank armor, not that you are being permitted to cut apart the tanks anyway until they are given to you. There is welding and cutting equipment, but the knowledge of disassembling a tank is not among your group, and it would take too long to learn, unless you were planning on staying. You weren’t. There is, however, a metal shop equipped to patch holes in armor. The spare plate sections become part of your claim of the spoils, along with fuel and ammunition. While you do not technically have a share of the paint, you later find out that one of your platoon’s radio operators, an apprentice painter, had stolen some anyway.

Maddalyn meets with you, having been, for once, not in your tank during the conflict.

“There’s something I need to show you, while we’re here.” She says, “I wasn’t planning on coming back here…but if we are, then there’s something at the manor that could be useful…”

>take a small party to the manor
>don’t venture out; continue haggling
>>
>>42891699
>>take a small party to the manor
>>
>>42891699
>Take a small party and go to the manor
Also I suggest using an emblem like the IRL panzer divisions. Simple yet distinct.
>>
>>42891699
>>take a small party to the manor
>>
>>42891699
>take a small party to the manor
Our gunner can take over negotiations for now. We also need a second in command.

Also, note that without our help they would have been shot to pieces by those tanks and that the only reason they were captured was because we detracked one. We want an intact tank and the supplies to fix our track, and when we make it back to friendly lines to try and send some support to the city
>>
>>42891776
I suggest for an emblem we have a stylized 'arrow piercing heart' emblem with a breastplate instead of a heart
>>
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>>42892010
Sounds good to me.
Also suggest the militia make something like pic related using spare parts and an AT gun to supplant their anti-tank needs.
>>
The manor is on the other side of the city. While it is technically under the control of a different militia, the one you were helping manages to secure passage for you, embellishing upon your prowess in battle in order to ensure a quiet trip.

“So,” you ask Maddalyn, “What’s in the manor?”

“You’ll see,” she replies, “I need to explain a few things anyway before we get to it. Answering questions before they come up, you see.”

The manor becomes visible, at its place in the center of the villa on a small hill.

“My family has connections with weapons development companies. We aren’t engineers, naturally, but we have…had…enough money and power to find plenty of talent. Having that sort of expertise, my father thought, could be used to give us an edge on the competition.”

You stop in front of the manor. It is covered in scorches and pitted with holes, but it remains an opulent construction. Dried pools of blood are soaked into the tiled floor, you step around them as Maddalyn strides down the staircase into the wine cellar.

“I presume we’re not here for the vintage,” you try joking.

“No. I’m no military planner, but I know enough that tanks get worse the older they are. Help me with this.”

You and the crew that accompanied you help her pull aside a particularly large wine rack, revealing a plain, steel trapdoor.

Underneath it is a small staircase that leads further down.
>>
“The Archduke has control over all production,” continues Maddalyn, “While his lords may have their own armies, they are equipped by the Archduke’s factories. My father didn’t like that. Ambition runs in the family.”

Down the staircase and behind another door, there was a dark, wide room. Maddalyn flips a switch on the wall, causing the room to light up with a soft yellow glow. It must have had its own generator.

Around the room were drawers filled with folders, tables with unfurled blueprints. A massive iron door was in the back of the room, presumably leading somewhere to the outside. The centerpieces of the room were wooden mockups, as well as an unpainted replica of a tank. It appeared to be a mild steel prototype, judging from the unfinished nature of several key components. You would assume that it was a Pz. m/32, but there were notable differences. The barrel of the gun was longer, and the edges of the tank itself were more rounded.

“You’ll want to get those, by the way,” Maddalyn says, gesturing towards the blueprints. “Anyway, I think this room should speak for itself. There’s one other thing, though…”
>>
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>>42892150
cropped
>>
Maddalyn slips her fingernail under an edge of the pendant and produces a tiny brass key. The key fits easily into the small hole in the wall, and with a turn, there is the sound of an engine somewhere turning over. The iron door slides open with a soft grinding on the concrete, revealing another room.

“The lead engineer saw potential in the new tanks that the Archduke was producing on license from Naukland. My dear father does not like being one upped. The Kaiser came forward before the project was finished, but…well, take a look for yourself.”

In the next room was the finished product of what the replica in the other room had been. Unlike most of its type, this modified Pz. 32’s hull was cast out of a single piece, then artfully angled off. The armor itself was thicker; no additional plates had been bolted on for more protection. This tank was a work of art; fitting for the secret project of a local lord.

“I don’t know who in my family you’re marrying, Richter.” Maddalyn smiles, “but I think this should be a suitable dowry.”

And with that, I'm sticking a fork in this fucker and calling it done. I have an exam to study for, but if anybody's got any general questions I'll bite. Feel free to discuss the new emblem as well, if you like.
>>
>>42892210
As a question does the Kaiser have/will have this?
>>
>>42892266
I'll say right now that the Kaiser isn't Hitler, as far as extravagant superweapons go.

I don't want to go into much more detail than that because the player character has no real idea of what the kaiser is like besides propoganda, which proclaims that he's just a power hungry despot. You'll have to find a Czeissian soldier to interrogate for another perspective.
>>
>>42892210
Oh we are so taking that. And when are you gonna call an end and take a design for the emblem tanq?
>>
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>>42892210
So we found this? (VK 30.02 D prototype rejected in favor of the Panther)
>>
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>>42892354
So no Maus? Eh I can deal with that.
>>
>>42892210
NEW COMMAND TANK
So we just found Eldeweiss?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=32MQQ9DW7Ks#t=1183
>>
>>42892407
Eh, after this thread, maybe, I'll just take the favorite ideas and draw them up and have a final vote.

>>42892425
>>42892647
Thinking a bit big there, but sort of. It's a customized version of a couple of the tanks we already have, with notable improvements in armor protection (due to the production method as well as being thicker armor) and projectile velocity and accuracy, that and it's been exquisitely finished so it's more like a sculptor built it than a production line. It's still very good for the early war, but don't think we just found a tiger in the basement.
>>
>>42893072
>projectile velocity and accuracy
...shit
It uses a different cartridge than our current 47mm gun, doesn't it?
>>
>>42893369
No.
The barrel's just longer. Unless I misunderstand what a longer barrel does for a cannon.
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>>42893395
just asking because of PzGr fuckery

>The same Pzgr. 39 shells of a certain caliber could be fitted to different cartridge cases. For example the 7.5 cm Pak 40 L/46 antitank gun and the 7.5 cm KwK 40 L/48 tank gun fired the same projectile, even though they had completely different cartridge cases. Different versions of the shell were made, but the changes were usually minor. For instance, in the 88 mm Pzgr. 39-1 version the quality of steel was improved. The 75 mm Pzgr. 39/42 of KwK 42 and Pak 42 guns had two driving bands instead of one. In the Pzgr. 39/43 of KwK and Pak 43 guns, the driving bands were made wider than those of Pzgr. 39-1. The widening took place because the high gas pressure in these long-barreled guns presented certain problems when firing the older Pzgr. 39–1 shells with narrower driving bands.
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>>42893495
Someone archive this.
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>>42893395
Yes, you got it right. Elongating the barrel will do that. After reaching max raito, you could improve it further by adding rifiling or extending the shell.
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>>42893495
Yeah well, the germans also have the answer too. Look at the L/43 tank gun and the L/48 tank gun. Practically the same in the fact both use the same mm and shell types. The only difference was that the L/48 was five calibers longer and was enough of an improvement that it became the mew german standard.



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