>TL;DR Doc (WIP)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LxdaGoBlJRTMuziMDupG5TeeFwNDnsIW2pfaRAcFDgA
> Lore Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bRrxdD1BMLmcMDFeszwqg2Rcjrt8DDo7tjAxoOB6KQ8
> Rules Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1njSLKKQFa9ri4w3A_09JW78uXFbFOFf8XVjncxPYIC8
> Unit Spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rcleQtrT4Q0INiBW50-kq2ZXWJ-cjLOeVTLTJg_oX5E

THE OLD ONE
>>88644608

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Why did you make this thread when the old one was neither at bump nor image limit?

We had some conversation about Martians last thread, someone put up the idea that they're hyperadvanced humans from way up there who have reverse-blobfish'd by descending down the layers to Earth, and that their tripods are life-support/iron lungs. If they exist, and the blobfish idea holds, would they still be regarding Earth with Envious eyes, trying to invade and shit? I really want them in the setting because TWoT is my shit but I don't want to just go "ohhhh Martians" and call it a day.

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>>88673486
Because I did.

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>>88673490
>We had some conversation about Martians last thread, someone put up the idea that they're hyperadvanced humans from way up there who have reverse-blobfish'd by descending down the layers to Earth,
That's already Hyperborea.

>>88673490
>>88673518
But also, having more than one faction descend from the Firmament is not a problem. Martians could totally be included.

We are nearing the top end of how many factions should be introduced, though.

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>You people love to preach about Enduring. What is it that you endure, exactly? The squabbles of your nobles? The idiocy of your masses? What you do is not endurance, it is complacency. You are content to sit on your rock in a puddle, fighting over scaps, pretending that everything is the same, hoping that somehow it will all be made right again.
Atlas has endured, that much is true. But never did He forget WHY he endured, WHAT was His goal and WHO were His enemies. Your endurance is a virtue of slaves and livestock. Resolve is the virtue of Kings and Gods. I will not sit idly by, waiting for Atlantis to rise. I will drag it back up, kicking and screaming, layer by layer, trampling over anyone in my path. And when I crash it like a battering ram into the gates of Heaven, the Wraiths that dwell between the stars will know what TRUE agony is. They will rue it all, their entire wretched existence. The beginning AND the end.

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REJECT MODERNITY
EMBRACE GORG

>The Titking
it just worked out so well

>The Units doc includes all the specific firearms
fuck me we're going to get the gun autists on board now aren't we?
and that's a good thing

>>88673783
That would be very welcome. I'd especially love is someone autistic enough could come up with how the independently invented Atlantean firearms could realistically look.

>>88673518
>>88673558
Personally I'd be fine with just giving Hyperborea some tripods and calling it a day.

>>88673783
not true gun experts, the Jules Verne novel came out in mid 1860, all his other famous books came in the 1870s. Yet the doc features several years outdated "standardized" equipment.

>>88673440
On topic of mechanics, I've though about "stealing" the 6-mile osr hexcrawl rules for campaign map movement.
>Movement
Your expedition can travel up to 4 hexes (24 miles) per day at base value.
Difficult terrain in the hex increases the cost of traversal. Workers should help you with this, so maybe a system where each type of terrain has a number of total worker skill required would be alright. If you are under it - you double the penalty for entering the hex.
>Carrying capacity
How much loot and supplies your expedition has to carry influences how many hexes of movement you get per day. Each member of your expedition adds to your total carrying capacity.
Number are just for example's sake, but
> 100-125% -1 hex per day
> 125-150% -2 hexes per day
> 150-175% -3 hexes per day
and so on.
Penalties would stack, so a group at 130% of their carying capacity has only 1 hex of movement
This would favor large expeditions, like Morlock Hordes, but I think that's fine.
If you overburden a single member of your expedition he slows everyone down, even if the total capacity of your expedition would allow you to carry it without penalty
>Weather
Don't know how prevalent weather is underground, but I have some rollable charts laying around that we could use
>Moving and digging through mini-layers
It would be mostly impossible to just start digging a tunnel whenever you want, due to how much time and mannpower you would need. So I think the next best thing is to have specific areas where you could, provided you have enough workers, make way up or down

We can then expand the system with random events - cards/dice rolls/whatever.
My previous post on this topic >>88669415

>>88673855
Hyperborean Tripod sounds pretty nuts

Unit-anon here, updated the last of the units added in the last thread, since this is largely rule based and I have pretty busy days I’m not sure if I’ll be much help in updating the doc, as conversations are harder to track than images in what essential info needs to be added. Due to this I will probably compile the charts so far and begin adding Unit Descriptions for the rosters now, maybe images if the formatting on the doc is not a headache to try that. Have fun anons on the rules, I will go back through and scan the threads for any unused ideas. Cheers, fellas.

>>88673952
>On topic of mechanics, I've though about "stealing" the 6-mile osr hexcrawl rules for campaign map movement.
I often run 6mile hex osr rules and they work well over the table. Sounds reasonable.

Possibly swap carry capacity Action Points? Since its a wargame, possible units have their own loadouts that won't change often.

>>88674143
>UUUUULLAAAAAA!
Translation:
>BEHOLD THE NEXT AGE OF MORTAL PAIN
We can also still have the normal hyperwarriors, just don't think about it too hard.

Just gonna repost and add some thoughts on units.
Ideally, Atlantis needs someone with the reverse of Hyas' morale buff. That would give Atlantis three options:
Pick Hyas and dish out some extra actions to your very motivated commoners. Grenade spam meta. Rules mention how Leader units can give Orders, basically transfering their AP. In his case he could basically have a free Order, an extra action point he can just pull out of his ass and give to someone else (not himself). Maybe with a cooldown.
Pick the aristocrat buffing leader to offset the Scion's weakness, capitalize on the Armorclad strength and just have overall better Cataphracts (let's say they're also noble units).
Pick the safe option: Perseus with his accuracy buff.
Aristocrat doesn't have much going on now besides his ability to recruit colonials (and IIRC earlier he could get 2 akritai at the price of one). An aristocratic buff/commoner debuff would not be out of place for him. He could be a more passive leader unit that has more money at his disposal, maybe cheaper/some free Armorclads/Cataphracts. He can be some sort of overseer, elected by the Aristocracy to lead the expedition (to his apparent dismay).
Mu Phalanxmen are OGs and were conceived as the best defensive unlimited unit in the game. That is fine. However, I don't think this should be achieved by giving them tons of armor - that's Atlan thing. Instead they could have a special ability like "Shield Wall" or something, where they get more armor when they are grouped together in formation that scales with the number of people in it. That would give them an ability to potentially outtank Atlans and other heavier units, but would require some set up (which seems like a bit of a theme with Mu).

>>88673855
Between the Tripods, Hyperwarriors, and Pain Priests, Hyperborea would make for a very fun faction to play

>>88674386
>Hyperborea would make for a very fun faction to play
Don't forget the "siege-train" Memory Engines
CHOOO CHOOO

>>88674449
I was not expecting Hellraiser meets Jeff Wayne (Courtesy of Mr.Wells) but here we are.

>>88674528
I mean they're more of a Heavenrain than a Hellraise but yes I get your point.

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If we doing HG Wells Mars, can we also do Jungle Venus?

>>88671588
>>88671577
>>88671456
>>88671745
To bounce back on this, I would say it would be important for colonials to not have thematic overlap, British are the "vanilla" and most normal one because they are supposed to be the "default" faction. Italian are merc-heavy and got some volcano themed things, japanese are having a civil war with Setsnuna samurai riding saur.
French are the "weirdo" of colonials (Italian not accounted) because a significant part of their territory is now underground, but their weird schizo stuff is relatively tame: techy Vernian stuff and people grewing weird habits like the ceiling guys.
So having everyone on the surface go "steampunk" would make the French no longer weirdoes for having what is basicly a guy walking on stilt.

>>88674932
>So having everyone on the surface go "steampunk" would make the French no longer weirdoes for having what is basicly a guy walking on stilt.
"""Steampunk""" makes me retch so yes, let's avoid that if possible.

>>88674932
I think even if we don't make compass for each factions, we should use "directions" as thematic guidelines for them. Also put their type of play (Elite, Medium, Horde) while we are at it

Like Atlan for exemple could be : Elite, with SLAVERY, TITANIUM, WARLOVING and TURTLING as big thematics.

Italian would be uh medium I guess with Volcanic, Mercenary and idk Oppressive, Oppressed for the other. For unit exemple, the volcanomage would be volcanic and oppresive while the slave would be merc and oppressed.

French would be Technological (guys relying on the prototype tech), Adaptive (guys adapting to their new underworld environement), Builders (side who want to focus on defending their underground holdings) and Explorators (want to explore the underworld to understand their new home). As exemple Indigenous rider would be the "extreme" of adaptive (being litteral locals), Stilt guy the extreme of technological and mountain climber in the middle (obviously using some kind of gear assistance but adapting to their environement).


Or stick to two theme for each faction to keep it sane. So Italian (Volcanic, Mercenary), Atlan (Titanium, Slaver/Warmonger), French (Technological, Adaptive).

>>88675253
Could work. For Lemuria it could be something like Enlightened-Ignorant and Warlike-Serene. Someone like Perfect being Enlightened-Serene, the Rockbreakers being Ignorant-Warlike. Mu would be obviously have Old-New, not sure about the other scale.

Also unrelated but >>88656508 I like the idea of Colonials calling the weirdness of the depth "Agarthan Sciences".
While each nation probably has it's own thing about it, it would be funny to have a international Agarthan science group or something, for maximum meme build where you take scientific from all factions together and try to survive with a bunch of nerds.

Peak autism would of course be making the compass fuckery into real mechanics lmao. But only if it actually benefits the game.

>>88675471
>"Agarthan Sciences".
I dig it too.
RATIFIED!

Unit anon here, if any of the older 'jaks lack any real gameplay rules then I will attempt to make up something for them while writing their footnotes. feel free to edit and critique in doc.

>Unit point costs
I feel we should trend toward higher point costs (Maybe 3-digit number army sizes, 10+ points per unit?) to allow more room for balancing later via cost adjustments.

Faction imagery would be good to work on too.
Flags? Symbols?

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>>88677260
Well, Atlantis has this thing

>>88677487
Solid, easy. Atlantas is the approachable Deep faction too, so having a simple one for them makes sense.

>>88674915
I think we can safely include all kinds of weird shit from other planets as Hyperborea-specific auxiliary units.

>>88677685
>Hyperborea-specific auxiliary units.
we're approaching levels of schizo that should never have been reached

>>88675316
I want Lemuria to have a spectrum of FORETOLD <-> UNBIDDEN

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>>88677685
>You're an auxiliary, you say?
>Do your Overlords treat you well?
>You're so spiritual for a non-Lemurian...
>I can see that a great destiny awaits you...

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>>88677738
>Do your Overlords treat you well?
We don’t even get dental!

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Posting some 'life on other planets' art just to get some ideas going.

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>>88677836

>>88677836
Damn, this actually does look like some horror from Hyperborea.

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>>88677847

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>>88677861

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>>88677487
actually, they have this.

>>88677872
what the fuck are those ungodly abominations holy fuck that is the most horrifying hell creature I have ever seen

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>>88677872
>the artist's barely disguised fetish

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>>88677884

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>>88677893

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>>88677902

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>>88677913

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>>88677920

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>>88677931
Just one more after this.

>>88677920
>Uranus
>poison gases
Hehe

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>>88677942
And, last of all, what the Martians from >>88677836 would imagine life on Earth to be like.

>>88677953
BY GOD
ITS THE LEGENDARY GOLDEN GORG!

>>88677953
What a SOVLFVL lad, I wish we were like that.

>>88677879
>Worshipping an Ol*mpian

Titking portrait
Might do more. Any requests?

>>88678155
Napoleon

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Updated to include the background red into the eye holes. Looks cooler I think.

>>88678190
Sounds good. I'll get to it if I get to it.

>>88678155
The Emperor or the Empress.

>>88678260
>the Empress
well fuck that one looks fun...
I'll add it to the list.

Why does Baron Phosphorous glow?

>>88678387
probably the phosphorous

>>88678398
Well, it wasn't that easy with Titanium, was it?

ARMY COMPOSITIONS

Two things are established, as far as I can tell.

>1
Point by system for unit costs.

>2
Every army gets a SINGLE leader.
Leader units ignore army point totals?

>>88678573
>2
I'm not against it, in fact, I see the merit in having to make a choice between leaders, but the rule doc says you can have several. I suppose we could just differentiate between actual Leaders and simply cool unique named units.

>>88678643
>I suppose we could just differentiate between actual Leaders and simply cool unique named units.
With all the charts, they seemed to be referencing a lot of "this leader is taken over that leader" or whatever so having a single leader slot per Army feels more aligned to that

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>>88678665
Well, you could have several Leader options and like Lord Wojak the Invincible who can tag along, is a great unit, can't be replaced when killed and all that as per rules, but isn't a Leader. So instead of picrel, we'd have a category like "Uniques" or "Heroes", but only one Leader per expedition. I certainly like the idea.

>>88678697
>So instead of picrel, we'd have a category like "Uniques" or "Heroes", but only one Leader per expedition.
I agree. Dividing between the expedition "Sponsor" like the Titking or Tsar and actual on the ground units, no matter how reputable, seems important.

Leader units aren't on the battlefield. They're the Leader, not the commander, not the general.

>>88678771
Nah, I can see Leaders as actual field units, but they should be a tier separate from "unique important people'. The current classification mushes them together, so the general sent on an exploration mission, the guy who invested into the expedition and tagged along (like the Eccentric Investor) and a famous scientist who follows them are all Leaders. That shouldn't be the case. Off the field sponsors are another thing entirely, they aren't, like, units and stuff.

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Deep Lord Napoleon, as requested.
I'll get to the Empress... some time. Eventually. Maybe, if I'm up for it.

So I would propose it go like this:
Specialists - still generic units, so you can have several Officers, Engineers, Medics etc. Probably no more that 2-3 per type and maybe some have a limit of one, but the important thing is they can still be replaced. Like maybe you can bring only one rich Merchant along for balance resons or because he doesn't want competition, but it is not unreasonable to find another if he dies.
Heroes - unique characters who, for some reason, are part of your expedition. They can be fighters, they can be just followers, but they are unique and if they die or incapacitated (plot armor), it's ogre. You can't swing by Fallen-Paris and replace your Eiffel.
Leaders - actual people in charge. They can still be fighters, they can be more passive units. They can have different budgets assigned to them. Not necessarily because they are funding the expedition, but simply because a rich noble leader simply has more funds that a general assigned an expedition budget by his superiors. Only one per expedition.
Naturally Leader buffs/abilities should be more substantial than what Heroes bring to the table.

>>88679056
This seems about right.
Also, not all Heroes need buffs, but I get the sense that all Leaders will have them.
Leader buffs will be army-defining, too, ideally. While Hero buffs float more in and around the single-target / minor aura territory I'd think.

>>88679079
Yeah, certainly. A Hero can just be a strong unit. If we co by the chart, the Scion is either a Hero or a Only-One-At-A-Time Specialist.

Heading out for now. Will finish The Empress tomorrow.

Things are being settled on. That's good. Unit divisions clarified, movement rules etc. all a great start.

And I don't see a problem with actual kings commanding expeditions. Tit King seems like exactly the kind of guy to go out and crack some skulls. Perseus is a likable reluctant and probably honourable ruler type, so I could see him travelling incognito maybe on some important mission (also a good opportunity for encounters as other faction discover the literal fucking king of Atlantis is right there for the taking). And as for Emperor and Empress, well, they seem like eldritch monstrocities barely holding onto their last shreds of humanity, so they could be doing some sort of avatar/projection bullshit or posessing a host. Mechanically it can also mean that they are harder to kill as they can rematerialize or find another body, so maybe they can die a couple of times.

>>88679411
I think we should treat it like Warhammer does. On the table, big names dominate because that's who people want on the table. But in lore that's an absurdity.

>>88679420
Sounds reasonable. Not like this is a setting where lore accuracy is needed on the table, anyway.

>>88679656
It would be cool if there were some battles to namedrop where big names did fight against each other and duel.

Come on guys, if we can't have the King of Atlantis fight a T-Rex with his loyal Olm Cataphracts, what are we even doing here?

>>88677685
I am ALL for this, retro alien auxiliaries from the cosmos under Hyperborea, hell yeah

>>88679716
Calling it now. Napoleon and Malcolm have canonically had at least one sword fight.

>>88680048
STANDING HERE

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>>88680048
>>88680121
>One was hailed as a hero before he became a villain
>The other was reviled as a villain before becoming a hero
>Both were changed forever by what they found in the deep
Would they be bros?

>>88680354
The only thing the establishment TRULY fears.

>>88680387
>the auldest alliance
kek

>>88680354
There is a specter haunting Agartha...

Given how Congo Free State was abolished in 1908 OTL, is it safe to assume that Leopold sold it earlier due to the discovery of Agartha?

Because we'd have to place the timeline somewhere in the 80's-90's if we want to keep the Congo sale. But I have an idea. What if he never owned Congo this timeline. Let's say, during the Fall he was not in Belgium. He was on an international visit to Britain or something. So eventually he ends up selling whatever property remains, pulls funds from the Swiss bank, takes a huge loan and descends into the depths. There he provides food and shelter for Belgian survivors and aids with reconstruction efforts, amassing followers who eventually become the core of his new mercenary company. The Leopold Free Company.

should workers have at least a little combat prowess? obviously the standard is that they should be dogshit compared to fighters as a standard but the idea of them being incapable of fighting in such a deadly setting doesn't make sense to me. probably not guns or anything but at least a little melee to go around.

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>>88680472
>Leopold and cannibal neanderthal doges sitting around chilling, eating Frenchmen

>>88680766
Rules do specify combat stats for tools, so it seems reasonable that they should be able to.

>>88680766
Sidearms and dynamite exist. I think the emphasis should be "limited ability to defend themselves, but zero staying power". So that means limited ammunition.

>>88680795
>Leopold offers to pay Neanderapes per hand of slain enemies
>They start bringing a bunch of suspiciously hairy hands

>>88680766
Some of them maybe, not so for others. The Degenerated Lemurian I can see fighting, but not the Russian serf for instance.

>>88680868
>Degenerated Lemurians
>Not instantly buckling the moment they're forced to make a morale check
Funny

>>88680868
fair, but there could theoretically be moments when their backs are against a wall with no-where to go, like if they're attacked from the rear while making a tunnel. i think rules-wise serfs for instance should be one of the worst units in the game for fighting but there would still be instances where it could happen.

>>88680958
I feel like the easiest solution is to have workers roll a will save to enter combat or continue fighting. Simple, effective and doesn't require new systems

Since it seems relevant, I'm going to restate my idea for morale failure keywords:
>When morale runs out for whatever reason, each unit has a specific course of action that they will take.
>For the most part, these are standardized across units and can thus be referenced via keywords. Specific units may have unique mechanics for what they do when out of morale, and this would need to be explained in the unit's information.
>For the sake of brevity, the source of any given morale failure will be referred to as just "the source" in this post.
>Panic: Unit moves in a random direction, decided by a die roll most likely.
>Flee: Unit moves as far away from the source as possible.
>Evade: Unit attempts to move to the nearest tile that would provide a defense bonus against the source.
>Charge: Unit attempts to move as close as possible to the source and, if capable, make an attack against it. Likely comes with attack roll penalties.
>Frenzy: Unit moves toward the nearest unit and attempts to attack it. Likely comes with attack roll penalties.
>Cower: Unit remains in place, incapable of moving or attacking for the duration.
>Most of these would probably come with the penalty of dropping any carried treasure/supplies, if applicable.
>Units may have stages of morale failure (IE: Panic/Flee -> Cower) and all units may default to cower if their standard morale failure wouldn't be possible for some reason.
Thoughts?

You would expect 4chan of all places to tell me I'm wrong, a faggot and should do reps, but apparently not. The threads already had a decent backstory for Atlantis/Atlan split, with Atlans being descended from Atlanteans who remained on the surface ruins when Atlantis fell. That is actually cool and works with the schizo model of layers forming chronologically on top of each other and then retroactively always having been there. I suppose we could write the current Titan schizo split into it:
>Atlantis falls
>Layer fuckery happens
>Remaining Atlanteans also fall
>Discover Titanium
>Fuck yeah it's dead Titans
>Eventually two discover each other
>Either Atlans are already too schizo or Atlantis tries to assert dominance as the TRUE Atlanteans (honestly prefer the later, because I don't want Atlantis to be le good guys, even if they are relatively sane and humane)
>Eternal War begins
>Tit King seizes power, schizophrenia intensifies, Atlan now in a state of total war
>Atlantis monarchy is crippled
>La Revolution
>>88681007
This is really cool, a game about the horrors of the Deep and whatnot should definitely have more nuance to what happens when you lose your shit.

>>88681007
Nice work
Maybe the degree of roll failure can influence the effect, so for example:
>Take a normal human with Will of 5
>Player rolls 1d10 and gets a 6 - a failure
>He fails, and now must take a morale failure denoted in a table at 1, for example - Cower
>If he rolled a 9, he would get a worse result, like Panic
Then you can use unit keywords to change up the table, like Fanatical units replacing Cower with Frenzy or Charge

>>88681120
Speaking of, how does Will interract with Morale? Is it just for checks like this one?

Does prophecy have a perils of the warp equivilent?

>>88681164
this probably adds on too much complication but i always thought that will could act like an HP bar for your will to keep going while morale acts like a defense stat, reducing incoming psychic effects.

>>88681167
i think prophetic visions failing by frying the brain with too much knowledge too quickly is an almost lovecraftian punishment that'd be a really great flavor-booster and bring some dice mechanics back to a system that brings predictable outcomes.

>>88681167
>>88681227
Is that how they degenerate?

>>88681007
I would actually add one more:
>Defect: Unit switches sides and becomes a part of the enemy army

>>88681295
i think surrendering with that giving your opponent post-game benefits would work better; this is dope in its own right but i think it'd work best against a specialist unit/leader rather than as a generic ability.

>>88673699
best not tell him they have crossed the Sacred Atlan Wall

>>88681350
Why not both? Defections should be rare, but with some preconditions they can make sense.

>>88681368
Maybe the real Wall were the slaves we made along the way.

>>88681064
You know what, Atlan sounds vaguely Mesoamerican, so maybe Atlans descend from survivors of an Atlantean colony somewhere in that region. And then it fell too.

>>88681526
So we Age of Mythology now ?

>>88681537
Dude, what the fuck, they merged Atlas the King and Atlas the Titan too?

>>88681526
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantean_figures
Shit, guys, we're onto something here.

>>88681604
I love how often in these threads some anon will throw out some random fucking idea and then it will turn out to have some sort of archaeological basis or be similar to a classic story or something.

>>88681620
With how these threads are going, reality might as well fucking retroactively rewrite itself to fit this shit.

>>88681555
Not that I know off, but AoM Atlantean where heavily based on Mesoamerican (along with greeks and roman gladiators).

We should really figure out how crit chance works, since so many strats rely on it. The system, as per rules, is d10, roll under or equal of melee/ranged stat for hits, if I got it right. Will a 1 with a confirmation work? Will stuff like buffs/equipment increading the crit rate by 1-2 work? The scale is pretty small, so it might make crits happen too often. Maybe on 1s you make a roll that is based on your crit chance and then you need to roll under or equal for that. So if you have crit rate of 1, you need another 1, if it's 2, you need 1 or 2, etc.

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>>88681620
THIS.
IS THE POWER OF SCHIZO ENERGY.

>>88681526
if this is true, we may want to redesign all of Atlan so they have actual Olmec/Mayan cultural influence.

>>88682022
Anon in the OG doc proposed using d12 in place of d10 for crits, 1-10 for normal results, 11 - Crit failure, 12 - Crit Success

I'm not really sold on having criticals for every roll desu, 2 in 12 chance of dice screwing either you or opponent is a tad bit too high.
Maybe select few units get an exploding dice keyword for specific actions? Like The New Mu Blademaster getting extra attacks on a roll of 10.

I just feel that getting a maximum roll is good enough, even without crits, considering that the damage potential of weapons is quite high

>>88682252
Maybe the keywords are better, and then I guess "crit" buffs would be giving extra keywords? Honestly, maybe it is better, instead of just "crits" you could have different special effects.

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A VISION OF OLD MU

I awoke, and stayed in dream.

‘Twas not a dream one dreams asleep,
For in those escape is near,
Nay, it was a dream I dreamt awake,
And in such alarming fear!
‘Twas a vision, an evil sight,
Of the things that dwell below,
And their homes where they make settlement,
And the skies are all aglow!
Ah, that evil glow! That reddish light!
Which plays on the cavern walls,
It flickers and it harshly shines,
As if in worship to the things below!

My eyes weaken even to recall,
The twisted things I saw.
Even Atlan is more civilised,
And, compared, is without flaw.
Oh horrors deep and dark!

The entrance ‘twas in a cavern,
Much like any one sees below.
But even in dream I felt a tugging,
A touch upon my soul.
It lead me on, pulling me close
To my doom. If only I knew!

As I travelled through the cavern,
That damned cavern. Oh God!
I saw the darkness deepen,
And the floor slowly steepen,
As I travelled ever further down.
Down. Damn them! Damn those fools!
How could they not but know?
They have no other interest,
But in that which lies below!
Those things that wait in patience,
Are deathless and undisturbed!

But I cannot act against them.
It is over for me and mine.
All that is left, is this.

I travelled deeper,
Past dark holes in the walls,
Where slept the denizens,
Of my destination below.

Soon the slope had lead me,
To a space I cannot forget.
A vast and roofless hollow,
Where lieth a city of such woe!

Deep red is that domain. Without compare,
Even to the rooms of Hell,
If it is not Hell itself.
Not even the vision of that Dante,
Or Goethe can prepare,
Your sight if you were to see,
That terror and despair!

>>88682827
That burning light dances fitfully
Upon the city spires
The streets are red and shining bright
As if ‘twere consumed by fires!
And fires burn, indeed, in every street,
Cooking things which I shuddered to see,
And quickly hurried by.

I was drawn towards the palace,
Which lies atop a hill,
Overlooking that godless city,
Shimmering, even though
Everything else lay still.

Awful inversions! It was a mirror,
A reflection, of the palace hewn
From crystal black.
A mirrored wall, which I, poor fool, passed through.

Ice cold is that dominion,
Colder still the evil hall,
Where dwelleth the Lord and Lady,
The rulers who dreadsome call!
Their whimpering slaves,
Morlocks,
To exert their awful will.

They saw me, Oh yes!
They saw me, and grinned when flew my cry,
Of horror, when I saw
Their cups and cutlery;
And the feast laid fresh before them,
And, I fear, for me.

>>88682841
For there was a third spot, empty,
The meal they’d not begun,
And grinning they seemed to beckon
Inviting me to enter,
Into that forsaken ritual!
That beckon! So terrible!
It sent me mad, gibbering,
I fled to the outer halls,
And running flew past horrors,
Which breathed and breathless talked.

I also felt the fiery light,
And heard the ringing of that Bell!
Oh! That bell! That noisome bell!
It rings within my head!
It rings and rings and rings again,
And to it s’where I am lead!
It tolleth not for me, and not for thee,
Nay it tolls for all! All! All!
All men who lie asleep, and dream awake,
Though it’s ringing they heareth not!
It tolleth for all who dwell above,
Above above! And below! No!
No! No! I must not recall, too terrible is that sight.
I travelled further! Oh why?
Was it a force pulling me?
Or was I fleeing from something worse?
It must have been, it must!
Why would I travel deeper?
Why seek that which dwells beneath?
Such terrible darkness! Such icy depths!

Oh, but I had to know the truth!


[Editors Note: Here ends the narrative. It’s author was found dead, hanged, in his rooms in the Rue Morgue.]

>>88673440
So I posted this is the last thread after everyone had already left so ill just post it again here for thoughts.

So are The Lemurs (not Lemurians but the bottom left) units in their own regard or just fluff as "the fucked up shit in the lower layers".

Because if not I would imagine them as pretty strong but uncontrolled units barring the 7th layer (Similar to uncontrolled Morlock units?) that one can trigger to spawn if they try and dig past the layers the campaign is set on )if we keep to the three layers per average campaign thing I saw in earlier threads) to emulate to concept of them rushing up.

I think it could be a cool disruption tactic if you can sacrifice some diggers to potentially spawn something to slow your opponents down But I also acknowledge that the Shapes may already fit that they of thing better.

>>88682813
So say Morlock Shaman has keywords 1-2 for Morlock summon and needs to fulfil it 2 times. That's 4%, right? Apprentice could maybe make it only one time, bumping it to 8%. It's still cheese as fuck but there's no explosive potential of continuing to multiply the rate, since it's a self-contained effect.

>>88683030
Oh, wait, my math is so fucking wrong, Apprentice would need to extend the range to 3, so it'll be like 9%.

>>88683096
And you could also add conditions like he needs to hit, keyword or not. Honestly, I like this system it's far more flexible.

>>88682827
>>88682841
>>88682863
Excellent stuff, anon. Are you by any chance the same guy writing the Revival's Commedia over at /osrg/?

Alright, vertical slice time. Good thing to start with is,

>PLAY & TURN ORDER
Players start the game. A design goal from earlier threads is FAST SETUP.
You come with your armies already assembled, no exceptions. The play maps are apparently pre-built 'tileset' maps, with some potential for players to customise their own BEFORE play starts (You come to a game with your tilemaps already done.)

SO, at the start of a SKIRMISH game, we
>Determine turn order somehow (Simple dice roll?)
>Determine which tilemap is being used. (Randomly? Also a dice roll? Each player contributes one tilemap that 'fuse' together into the battlefield? I seem to recall we had like, 'each player brings one, the third randomly determined, that's the battlefield' or something.)

>DEPLOYMENT
How does deployment work? One unit at a time? Lower-cost units deployed first? In turn order? All at once? Etc.

Let's start figuring out the sequence of events from when people get together to play, to when the game actually begins.

If we can find a way to get deployment to be fast too, we might be able to get game setup times down to sub-1 minute which would be great.

>>88683030
Or fuck, he could extend one of the keywords to 1-4. So now Shaman needs a 1-2 and a 1-4, which would be exactly 8%. That's still pretty low target and I assume Shaman would hit and fulfil it almost at this rate.

>>88682252
>>88682813
I don't mind the idea for upping dice class for crits.
It is a VERY easy way to manage buffs. You got a +1 'crit' buff? You're rolling a d8 instead of d10 to hit or some shit.
Or maybe Hit rolls are 3d6, and you add an extra dice + drop lowest per bonus to Crit?

Fast, manageable systems are the ideal imo. Avoiding extra hoops to jump through with every calculation should be the goal. Grabbing a different dice is fast and easy, referencing a 'crit table' or something else is not.

>>88678949
>>88680354
I put Napoleon in a modified version of his "Emperor" outfit.
We should settle on this, are we going with his officer uniform or the emperor one? He probably doesn't have a wardrobe down there.

also based image

>>88682949
Lemurs are horrible deep-things that are either the product of regular apes undergoing deep-drunkenness and Lemurian degeneration, the degenerated remnants of ancient humans from layer-cycles before the current nine layers, just regular lemurs, or something else entirely. Possibly all or none of those.
I like the idea of lemurs as an area hazard.

>>88682949
>>88683392
We've been leaning toward environmental hazards in some discussions.
Including Lemur Rushes in with mudslides, collapses, tidal waves and eruptions etc. sounds about right.

>>88681007
>>88681295
I feel like we should only have one result for Morale failure outside of specific morale-ability-related situations.
Wargames are complicated to begin with. The mechanics should be elegant.

>Panic: Unit moves in a random direction, decided by a die roll most likely.
>Flee: Unit moves as far away from the source as possible.
My initial idea for Morale failure is something like "The unit can take no actions except remaining stationary or moving away from enemy units.

>>88683258
>INITIATIVE
Opposing rolls between the leader's Leadership/Will skill
>TILEMAP
Scenario and the campaign hex determines the tilemap you fight on. Everyone brings generic tilemaps (4 for each campaign tile, 12 in total?), alternating in choosing(rolling?) and placing the ones your opponent brought. Combining 4 50x50 hex maps into a 100x100
Maybe a single player tilemap that is used by the defending player, to represent their camp?
>DEPLOYMENT
Scenario dependent area. For a simple skirmish scenario you place your units however you like in that area, let's say a 3 hex wide row. The game starts when all players have decided on where to place their units
Then when we've fleshed out the system a bit we can start adding specific Scenario rules, like order, forced deployment, etc.

>>88683340
Opulence is perhaps the only thing La Ombre has in excess, being surrounded by the glittering treasures of the deep and so little else.
>>88683463
That's why my suggestion was keyword oriented, keeps it simple while adding variety.

I think any proposed idea should undergo a Morlock Cheese test.

>>88683493
>Opposing rolls between the leader's Leadership/Will skill
Damn I like that a lot. Leaders having a strong array of stats that sway games is great, one stat tied to "Initiative" for them makes sense.

>Everyone brings generic tilemaps (4 for each campaign tile, 12 in total?), alternating in choosing(rolling?) and placing the ones your opponent brought. Combining 4 50x50 hex maps into a 100x100

How about,
Player who won turn initiative roll gets to decide whether they Act first, or get to select Tilemap first.
The player who acts SECOND places tilemap first? Since acting first implies you are an advancing army.

>The game starts when all players have decided on where to place their units
Hidden Deployment is some kind of mechanic so yes top this, but with caveats.

>>88683548
>I think any proposed idea should undergo a Morlock Cheese test.
"Morlock Cheese Test" should definitely be among the series of standardised balance tests we use.
Having more than one standardised test would be nice.

I dunno, I'm really digging the keywords. It's like I was seeing in 2D all of my life and now I've discovered a new dimension. You can do all sorts of crazy shit with it.

>>88683615
>I dunno, I'm really digging the keywords.
I dig it too, but in a wider context.
Having specific things Keyworded helps both with memory issues and explaining the game to new players.
We don't just need keywords for Routing/Panic etc, could have them for a ton of standard abilities that appear across several units.

Positive and negative, like Atlantean Chemists and Flamethrowers both having some kind of "Backfire" crit fail keyword for example.

>>88683227
Nope. Just got a little bit of inspiration and decided to write it up. I'll check out that Revival's Commedia though, and thank you for the praise.

We need better names for The Empress and The Emperor.

>>88683780
Names we the first thing they gave up, Surfacer.

>>88683847
I get it but also "The Emperor" is already the most popular character in the most popular wargame and neither that nor "The Empress" is very impressive name wise

I mean if we're going with the giving up names thing, even "The Nameless Emperor" would be better or something

>>88683876
Fair enough, but I really like the idea they literally sacrificed their names. They no longer exist. There are holes in reality where their names were and it is now written in its rules that they can't be refered to by them.

>>88683905
could call 'em Thing One and Thing Two lmao

I'll think on it. Emperor already being basically the main character of Warhammer, I suggest we find a better name for the pairing.
Totally on board with the nameless thing though. They are HUMAN (tm) after all.

>>88683937
But Nameless Emperor/Empress are fine, though most people would shorten it anyway.

>>88683953
What about The Nameless Servant / The Nameless Maid or something?

They may rule Mu, but they're servants to a higher (lower) power.

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By the way, what are your opinions on the rules for shooting muzzle-loaders? I certainly get the IDEA behind making reloading older guns obnoxiously hard, but randomness of it rubs me the wrong way. Though I admit there's a degree of realism to it, as it would be hard to perfectly coordinate all the actions needed to reload a flintlock musket.

>>88683963
That's kinda weak. Maybe Nameless Father/Mother could work, but I think Nameless Emperor/Empress are fine, honestly.

>>88684054
Reasonable to keep but also we could have some kind of "crit failure" negating buff units that, perhaps, suppress all forms of crit failures like reload and explosive ones.

Some kind of Tactician (Perhaps the Engineer?) unit.

>>88684085
>Maybe Nameless Father/Mother could work
I like it.
What about, to clean things up and get more religous-language-structure-y

>"Father Nameless"
>"Mother Unknown"
or something, modelled after religious titles of "Father X" / "Mother Superior" or whatever.

>Emperor/Empress are fine
I honestly think they are not fine. We're making a tabletop wargame. We literally CAN NOT have any of our characters named "The Emperor"

>>88684108
These DO sound better.

>>88684123
Father Nobody?

>>88684087
Nice idea, honestly.
>>88684126
Father Nameless was better 2bh.
I dunno though, dropping the title feels off somehow. Given Mu have Middle Easter/Steppe vibes, could they be Nameless Khan/Khatun?

>>88684225
>I dunno though, dropping the title feels off somehow. Given Mu have Middle Easter/Steppe vibes, could they be Nameless Khan/Khatun?
Note taken that both Emperor/ess AND Fa/Mother are steering away from Steppe vibes.
I'll think on it if nobody has other ideas.

The Khan / The Khatun seems better than Emperor/Empress either way.
I do like the nameless thing though.

>>88684225
>>88684252
I actually prefer Emperor/Empress.

>>88684509
Sure, fine, but we literally can not use them.

>>88684526
I mean, why doesn't the emperor have a name while the empress is just called the empress? I think the empress should be far more eldritch than her betrothed

>>88684635
She had no make up when they took her jak

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>>88680354
We need a third leader to complete the trinity of "Crazy fucking leader goes underground and becomes relevant"
Personally? My vote is Hyperborean Cromwell

>>88684690
>My vote is Hyperborean Cromwell

>>88684706
>Cromwell in a suit of pain-powered armor animated only by his unrelenting hatred of both kings and the Irish

>>88684690
Not exactly a leader, but mayby cortez? Since he was already mentioned it would be shame not to use him.
And if third unreasonably long lived character is top much he could be something else entirely like a ghost

>>88684690
We already have a character from the Isles and a character from France. Maybe a German or Spaniard, to round things off? Or maybe from somewhere further afield...
As much fun as historical figures are, I'd also kind of like another Donut Steel like Malcolm, with a third kind of deep crazy.
>>88684706
Isn't it wonderful that you can read that sentence and fully parse its meaning?

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>>88684744
>Hyperborean Cortez leading the Ibero-Italo-Ethiopian Crusader armies

>>88684786
>The reason Cortez' gold is lost is because he had it forged into a Hyperborean artifact
>Pimped the fuck out in gold
>Golden musket balls that have souls inscribed into them
Just pure hedonism as a character

>>88684745
>Isn't it wonderful that you can read that sentence and fully parse its meaning?
More new sentences are being generated in these threads daily than any other location on the planet right now.

Let's discuss spies/assassins in the meantime. What do we want them to do? How do assassinations work? Personally, I think they should be able to sneak around the map somehow and see the enemy armies, maybe steal shit and probably try to kill enemy units. Emphasis on try and it should be limited to replaceables, so as not to trivialize the game by getting a lucky roll and killing someone's Leader or a powerful Hero just like that. "Assassinations" should probably be different from regular kills, because Hetera just collecting units would be stupid, even if you give her a limit. So assassination should be either an out-of-battle thing or performed in battle under specific conditions. Like maybe some sort of special attack on a low-HP unit that has a chance to kill them instantly will also count as assassination if successful and qualify for any special effects like impersonation or recruitment.

>>88684723
>Napoleon and Malcom immediatly stop their duel to gang up on him
The Old Alliance is strong...

>>88684989
>Let's discuss spies/assassins in the meantime. What do we want them to do?
They seem pretty clear as the "Leader / Hero killer"

>How do assassinations work?
I'd say like regular units, but with,
A) Very long cooldown, extremely high damage hits. Total DPS FAR below regular units due to slow hit rate, but very high up-front damage.
B) Each "Assassin" class unit should have some way to get close to Leaders. Some stealth / mobility / evasion ability that helps them skirt into armies and hit their target.
Like the Skypeople elephant bungie jumpers. or the Mu unit that appears like a different unit (presumably until it attacks)

I feel like unit types, other than Leader and perhaps Hero (! Leader per army, no limit on total Heroes but limit 1 of EACH Hero per army) should be more like guidelines than actual rigid unit class structures.

That is, I think the best place for Assassins should be something like "High Risk, High reward" where your 8-Point Assassin might get into an army and snipe a 40-Point Leader before it does, but if you don't play perfectly its usually just going to die before it gets there.

Who is the Modern Major General by the way? My headcanon is that he's a British Imperialism Tulpa.

>>88685161
Well, he's the very model of a Modern Major General
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlTisI_HSgw
I don't think we need to give schizo lore to him, he's already perfect

>>88685161
he just showed up one day
he speaks English fluently but nobody can place his dialect
we don't know where he came from

>>88685190
Yeah that works. I'll just assume the "Known all kings of England" but refers to a LONG AND GLORIOUS HERITAGE.
Imagine the reaction of some self-important Mu player when they get tabled by a fucking Gilbert and Sullivan character, priceless.

>Gog work long and hard, sparkeyes says Gog rewarded for loyaltee da prophesys says so.
>Gog jus needs work harder
>Little metal men came again today, deys harder den rocks, but they still break when Gog hits them enough.
>Uplanders came after, fire sticks hurt Gog. Gog hurt them back. Dey soft, much softer than rocks.
>Sparkeyes came back today, says Gog getting promoshun for ‘is work.
>New job is standing around sparkeyes when he looks into da future. It boring, especially compared to killing in caves, but Gog gets three rations instead of two, so Gog can deal with boredom.
>Sparkeyes turned into a meatthing today, Gog thinks he looked too far. Back to kill caves with Gog
-Memoirs of a Lemurian Rockbreaker

>>88685376
Rockbreakers shoud defenitily have armor penetration, that's kind of their point.

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I've been to hellish depths between unholy and fantastical
I've slain eldritch horrors made from corpse and tooth and tentacle
Napoleon does fear me while King Malcolm bursts his ventricle
I am the very model of a Modern Major General!

>>88685398
>Rockbreakers are effective against Titanium Crystal Mystics
S O V L

>>88685127
Risk and reward sound good to me, that create tension, maybe you little guy suceed and delete/incapacitate/seriously wound the leader, maybe hé fumble and get eaten alive by the leader (sometimes litteraly)
>Yfw Eiffel catch a Mu assassin and break him in two with his bare hands
Don't fuck with THIS Minister !

>>88673783
Do US units use the Krag or the Lee Navy?

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>>88685535
Krag so we can have representation of the volunteer rough riders.

>>88685580
And Marines

>>88685376
Does Gog, by any chance, have a brother called Magog?

>"The Empress" portrait
I liked the name developments with "Mother Unknown" so I went with that for the filename.

She ended up less "Eldritch Horror"-y than what was added to the original chart.
But, with mention of Khans and Steppe inspiration I wanted to bring in some Steppe-tribal fashion elements. Hope it still meets some "Eldritch worshipping queen of the deep" vibes.

Now be honest, /tg/...
would you?

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>>88685979
Fixed the mouth slightly.

>>88685979
>>88685998
Noice one. Honestly, I think their naming conventions don't have to be exactly the same, just hint at their hollowed out identities.
The Nameless Khan actually sounds dope.
For the Empress I suggest The Void Mother.

>>88686075
>The Nameless Khan actually sounds dope.

I'm absolutely down with that suggestion.

"The Nameless Khan" and "Mother Unknown"?

>>88686098
Mother Unknown sound more like someone's unsure of her parentage, idk, it lacks pizzas for my taste.

>>88686191
>Mother Unknown sound more like someone's unsure of her parentage, idk, it lacks pizzas for my taste.
I like its assonance.

>>88682827
Good shit.
Is this inspired by a real poem or did you all write it yourself? Kudos either way

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I'll probably be knocking out the Leader portraits before moving onto units, if I ever get to the regular units at all.
The only question is,
Who's next?

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Rules anon here! I was missing for a couple days. What did I miss? I just went and worked on the rules doc a bit Every anon is encouraged to come and make suggestions, god know we need them. Also go to units sheet and start making or translating stuff up. links in first reply

>>88686267
>Units
We should settle on base templates for different units: humans, animals, horrors from the depths, etc.
Would make creating/balancing easier if we have a common baseline

>>88686266
Modern Major General.

>>88686354
I think I'm going to stick to doing the Deep factions for now but I'll keep it in mind. Mostly because they're more fun to do lmao.

Speaking of which, who even is Lemuria's main leader?

>>88686266
His Radiance, Baron Phosphorus

>>88686333
Also forgot to add, we need to decide on armor and AP values.
So far cover adds +5 and +10 for half and full cover respectively. And I don't think a simple rifle should completely negate that by having AP 5.
I'm not a gun nut nor american, so I don't know how much armor you need to stack for protection from 19th century firearms.

This problem can be solved by increasing the values, but this detracts from simplicity and messes up the damage formula of
>Dice+AP-Armor

>>88686409
Already done one of the Atlan leaders but if there aren't any other suggestions I'll get started on him when I can.

>>88686267
Which is the actual template? I want to do my frenchies

>>88686451
GLORIOUS!

>>88686512
Use the first one in the Template page for now, I've added a field for keywords, but it does need some changes. I'll try and work on adding a proper format for tools and keywords later

>>88686451
I was going to suggest doing a Lemurian since there is none, but there is no Lemurian character. Shame.

>>88686698
>but there is no Lemurian character. Shame.
PROBLEM:
Lemuria doesn't really have a clear leader yet.

SOLUTION:
We think of what Lemuria's leader will be. Right now!

>>88686366
I think the closest we’ve got is the Prophet-General, though he was just sort of a Targaryan. Mix in some Hindu and Taoist elements for the design, and we’re cooking with gas.

>>88686707
>>88686712
Vritravana, Prophet-Prince and Dragon of the Deep

>>88686698
Don’t have a jak since I’m at work but
>The Oracle (name subject to change)
>A withered shell of a man with the greatest gift of prophecy of the underground
>Practically immobile (completely immobile without servants to bear him around), but provides massive prophecy buffs to Lemurian troops in a huge range
>Some believe he is nothing more than a corpse being used as a shell for something far more powerful
>Enemies drop dead if they get too close, their eyes melting from horrific knowledge only they see
>Often mistaken for a Hyperboria unit by newfags

>>88684690
>LENIN LIVED
>LENIN LIVES
>LENIN WILL LIVE

>>88686712
>>88686773
They also got some stepe fucker indo-european aryan (the real kind not schizo kind) feeling ; also they have many petty kings. Maye some "King of Kings" or "Grand Theocrat" if they are united by a religious figure.

>>88686837
Meant for >>88686707

>>88686847
>Maye some "King of Kings" or "Grand Theocrat" if they are united by a religious figure.

King of Kings, you say?
You mean, the Lemurian leader claims the throne of Atlan, Atlantis and all the surface dwellers?
He is the king of kings after all!

>>88686847
>if they are united by a religious figure.
I like the idea of Lemuria having a theocratic primary leader, differentiates them from most of the other relatively secular-presenting factions.

Some kind of gigaprophet or Harbinger Prophet or some shit

>>88686512
The one you like most. Probably what was used for Ottomans

>>88686922
Bouncing on >>88686837 idea
>THE FIRST PROPHET
>Lead his divided people to the ruin of Old Lemuria
>Teached them the ancient secrets
>Achieved spiritual ascendance and simply refused to die until his role in the great prophecy is accomplished
>Now only a blackened, weathered corpse, look like a obsidian statue
>Choose the Prophet-Lord (aka Prophet-General) and mark them as such
>People drop dead if they get too close
>He await he who come with the dawn of the two suns, King of Kings, to unite the warring Lemurians and lead them to the surface once more

>>88687193
I freely admit I got inspired by the Aiel, except instead of magics rocks they get their weird prophecy from a dessicated old man.

Would there be any big Colonies underground by the normal surface powers? Or is this more of a "We must reach the South Pole first" kind of situation

>>88687412
Depend on the nation I would say. Obviously the French do, since like 10% of their territories is now underground. They probably have the widest territory down there, but I think other faction might have holdings deeper than them, as they didn't have to focus on securing their capital like the french did.

>>88687193
could call him the Last Prophet and have some hip hop memes for a laff

>>88687193
We're getting somewhere with this.
Definitely feeling the purely religious side.

>>88686907
I AM OZYMANDIAS
LOOK UPON MY WORKS, YE MIGHTY, AND DESPAIR

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>>88689127
>OZYMANDIAS
>But alive
>And his empire is thriving
welp, that's perfect

I like to think that since Prophet-Lords are chosen according to the First Prophet's divination and the inexplicable cosmic plans, it can be literally ANYONE. The person is found and taken, willing or not, to become the Prophet-Lord. And a couple of times Lemurians even had to kidnap people from other Layers and even from the Surface to fulfil the prophecies.

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Just for fun
>Gog and Magog
>A pair of prominent Lemurian Rockbreakers, tied together by shared Destiny
>Can only be hired together
>Gog has 3 more armor and does 1 more damage than regular
>Magog has 1 more armor and does 3 more damage than regular
>When within a range of 2 of each other, when one succeeds on an attack roll, the other does too.

>>88689567
fuck man the Gog and Magog comics they used to put in 1e manuals were so great

>>88689567
>every novel in the franchise has a reference to them, whether they're alluded to or actually show up

>>88689567
absolute fuckin' legends

>>88689567
And you can give one of them a Prophecy reroll buff and it will work for both lmao.

Speaking of, here are some ideas for Prophecies
>Basic reroll failures
>Roll damage twice and pick higher (or lower if you need it for some inexplicable reason)
>Make enemies reroll successful attacks against you specifically or in general
>Make specific enemy vulnerable to attacks, everyone gets to reroll failed attacks against them
>Change dice keyword ranges?
>Deny/confirm dice keyword triggered effects?

>>88689841
>>Basic reroll failures
Honestly?
The more I hear about it, the more I'm liking the idea that a "Prophecy" is just a resource you can spend to reroll a failure after the fact.
Or perhaps spend before a roll, letting you reroll if you fail? More risk/reward and tactics management in that case.

>I spend a Prophecy on this Attack roll
>I hit, damn, prophecy burned but at least it got it
or
>I spend a Prophecy on this Attack roll
>It missed, great! Reroll time!

>>88689567
Anon who did the Gog greentext here
You are doing the work of the gods,Anon.

Anyone else up for naming the Lemurian leader Ozymandias?
Seems to fit well.

>>88689970
I think it works.
>>88689955
Yeah, that's one way to do it. Maybe "buffs" are just extra Prophecy points. Though we still need to have different units be able to utilize different Prophecy abilities.

>>88689567
See now these are perfect examples of "Hero" units for sure.

>>88690212
>Though we still need to have different units be able to utilize different Prophecy abilities.

How about
>Prophecies in general.
Spent BEFORE roll to reroll if that roll fails.

>Prophecies per unit
Some units can spend Prophecies to fuel unit-specific powers. This is the same resource as what is used generally.

Or we could just part it out and just have only unit abilities consume them without any basic use for Prophecies, just making it a resource generally.

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>>88689841
>>88689955
I like the idea of prophecies being less a pool to spend and more an ability that you can use on the prophets, but has a chance to backfire if you keep using it
>First prophecy is free
>Second one has bad things happen on a ten, third on a 8+, fourth on a 6+, etc...
That or something like Tzeentch fate dice from AoS inb4 >AoS where you roll for a pool of useable dice to replace other rolls at the start of the game

>>88690238
Yeah, I like this. Maybe there's like a couple of instances with some sort of "power transfer" shit, but that's how it would work.

>>88690247
>I like the idea of prophecies being less a pool to spend and more an ability that you can use on the prophets, but has a chance to backfire if you keep using it
So something like a Madness mechanic?
I dig that too. Quite a lot actually. Rather than a resource spent to use Prophecies, one accumulated as payment for each use.

Maybe each Prophecy succeeds if you roll over the total ... Prophecy Burn? The total whatever we call it that you have.

Should be simple to manage.

>>88690247
Why not both? Have a small pool of points, like 1-3, then you can go over the limit and get periled.

>>88690275
>Why not both?
Memory and complexity issues.

>>88690275
>>88690303
Actually I like the idea of mixing the two a little, with more powerful prophets getting more free "casts" before they start rolling for perils, denoted on the sheet or whatever
>Basic Prophet gets 1 free prophecy
>Ozymandias gets something absurd like 4 free casts since he is the big boy prophet of Lemuria
Granted, I can also see the argument for axing it in favor of simplicity

>>88690303
Fair enough. So, let's say Vedic Warrior is supposed to "get hit rolls when wounded", could he start getting free consequence-free prophecy uses when at certain HP or something? That would allow for some sort of berserker-prophet kinda strat, where you can keep him at low health to get better rolls.

>>88690328
>Actually I like the idea of mixing the two a little, with more powerful prophets getting more free "casts" before they start rolling for perils, denoted on the sheet or whatever
My response to this would simply be to say
"How do you know you are in the positive or negative?"

It may seem trivial, but these are the kinds of memory issues that pile up and make games that should otherwise be fun suddenly play like death on rusty rollerskates when you actually sit down.
Worse yet, is said people who are sitting down won't be able to specify why the game didn't feel fun to play. They just know it wasn't what they expected.

Simplicity is key. If you want "Pool" of free Prophecy casts, something more elegant like "The first Prophecy each game doesn't gain you Badpoints" is easier to track and remember, as its a simple boolean.

>>88690345
>So, let's say Vedic Warrior is supposed to "get hit rolls when wounded", could he start getting free consequence-free prophecy uses when at certain HP or something? That would allow for some sort of berserker-prophet kinda strat, where you can keep him at low health to get better rolls.
Yes that's another solution.
Memory and tracking issues are fixed partly by tying them to things which are memorable.

"This is the blood-crazed dude who gets free Prophecies when he's bloody" is evocative and easier to track. Still, memory issues should always be considered even with means to alleviate them.

Unit anon here, been making unit descriptions and some references to stats in the unit lists - if any unique characters or images (like Grog and Magog) crop up here, I will see about adding them to a place that fits, if the thread agrees they're cool. focused on writing descriptions for the chart stuff for now, though.

>Check times Vesuvius erupted in the 19th century
>There's a 30 year period from 1875-1906 where its constantly erupting
Huh. Those coincidences.

>>88690415
If you missed it, we seem to have settled on diving Units in 3 ways, vaguely in the structure of

>LEADER
Limit 1 Leader per army. No exceptions. Each Leader carries special stats other units don't have, like impacting Initiative rolls and whatnot.

>HERO
Named characters that aren't leaders. Limit one of EACH hero per army, but no limit to total number of heroes.

>The other ones
Unlimited.

>>88690422
>Huh. Those coincidences.
We don't control the tides. We simply ride on them.

Lemurian-assisted Morlock Cheese Test

Lemurian Agent for the purposes of test has an ability to autoconfirm a special effect.
He uses it on the Shaman once, for free. Shaman summons a Morlock.
He uses it again, he now has a 1/10 chance of bad shit.
He uses it again, he now has a 3/10 chance of bad shit. (Assuming 8 and 6 are included in 8+/6+)
He uses it again, he now has a 1/2 chance of bad shit.
At this point it's safe to say that most people will cease the Morslock spam if they value the agent. Especially if the penalties are harsh. That's aroud three Morlocks. Is that a sufficient Cheese/Balance ratio?

>>88690440
Roger that. so are things like the Sargeant Major a standard unit despite providing buffs to surrounding units, they are not a named character

>>88690449
>That's aroud three Morlocks. Is that a sufficient Cheese/Balance ratio?
I think we're making Morlocks hilariously shit enough to warrant like, an entire doubled army of them being manageable to fight.

At any rate, 3 sounds fine. But, I'd say we should aim for a ratio of nearer to half a standard army for the "upper limit" of cheese balance, considering the Morlock THING is to spam Morlocks.

>Your army dedicated to spamming dudes enters the battlefield.
>Begin your chaotic buff-chain rube goldberg Morlock vomit machine
>By the end... Three whole extra Morlocks are produced.
A little underwhelming.

>>88690460
Possible that Buffs, ESPECIALLY AoE ones, should be kept only to Heroes and Leaders.

That said, we could just give the Sargeant Major a name.

>>88690475
Maybe it's not one Morlock 'Model' per summon. But a 'unit' of morlocks. Which could be anything from 5-10 imo

>>88690489
Now THAT'S Mor(lock)e like it!

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Busy with work lads, but I gotta say I appreciate the good work everyone puts in.

>>88690484
I gotcha. if ya'll decide on a name for him I'm up for it, How about Inherent unit qualities (Zulu auxiliaries ignoring rough terrain)

additionally I've taken to labeling a few things in descriptions, which of course can be changed in accordance, however, calling things like spears low-hit rate but high crit chance, or clubs dealing blunt force damage, or there being anti-cavalry buffs for spear wielding units. Most of this was come up with on the spot when writing from what I know of a few tabletop games, and of course, is subject to whatever decisions are made in the thread.

Real men run Lemuria as a pure rockbreaker list being heralded by Gog and Magog. And also that one leader that nobody cares about because we are here for the rockbreakers.

>>88690579
>How about Inherent unit qualities (Zulu auxiliaries ignoring rough terrain)
Sounds reasonable.
I think we should limit each regular Unit to only a single ability each, however (Passive OR Active)
If you can't embody what the unit is about in one ability, its too complex to be anything other than a Hero.

>>88690595
>when you like Atlan playstyle, but hate Atlan since 2e

I hate the name The Polished Princess because every time I read it I just read "The Polish Princess"

Anyone got a better one?

https://youtu.be/U-xsosv6uM0
I like to imagine this playing over the sounds of an active volcano and screams of people being thrown into lava.

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>>88690630
RIDE ON,
MY KITH IN THE LAVA

>>88690602
Gotcha. I will check in here if in need of clarification, for now though, Ozymandias and Grog n' Magog are likely going to be added.

>>88690681
>Grog n' Magog
Gog n' Magog.
Names are a biblical reference.

>>88690739
Oui

>>88686266
do the "good guys" next. King Perseus II of Knossos, Leopold II of Belgium, Illinois Jack

>>88690739
>Literally make up Gog as a name in the parking lot while making a shitpost greentext on my phone while snacking on airheads
>It turns out to be a biblical reference
What the actual fuck is with these threads?

>>88690768
>What the actual fuck is with these threads?
Its even funnier because Gog and Magog aren't actually specific Biblical references.

Every time Gog and Magog are mentioned in the bible, it is TOTALLY different. Sometimes they're people, sometimes they're territories, or cities, sometimes one is a person the other is a city. They're among the most mysterious things in history.

And you discovered them. And now they're Lemurian Rockbreakers.

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>>88690768
> in the parking lot while making a shitpost greentext on my phone while snacking on airheads
comfy
you live a blessed life, friend

>>88689183
Glad I can help

Alright.
SO.

PROPHECIES
You activate the Prophecy ability of a unit. You gain a point of ???? (Madness? Consumption?)

Each attempt to use Prophecy abilities, you roll against your total ????
Failure has bad results.


Reasonable to move forward with? I like one faction having a "madness" mechanic instead of just spending resources like everyone else.

>>88689962
> work of the gods
More like work of the Gogs

>>88690837
Work of the Gorgs.

>>88690645
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wgxjbnje3bU
>IT BURNS

>>88690627
The Pearlescent Princess

>>88690899
I dig it.
RATIFIED!

>>88690836
Madness works.

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Fuck it, I'll start trying to get things codified and visualised, what with my own stylistic flair
hope y'all don't mind pixel art, its what I do.

Starting a chart for the leaders of Deep factions. Post what I've missed, I'll update and TRY TO (Read: Probably won't, or may take some time to) fill all the slots with art.
Is anyone opposed to making it a goal for each major faction to have three Leader options?

Fill in what I've missed. Make suggestions. Etc. Etc.
Art for Baron Phosphorous is up next, currently.

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>>88685979
>>88686098
Long ago upon the endless steppes of Mu bands of hunters stalked their prey with spears of rough stone and used for shelter simple holes dug in the Earth.
Then the Great Ancestor came from Between-the-Stars and forged the Pact with Mu-Men that they honor to this day. Two among them were chosen, two whose very names have been forgotten, shed like a serpent's old skin to make room for something greater.
The Nameless Khan, the Wind of Desolation, who ceaselessly rode across the plains, laying ruin to the foes of Mu with Spear, Arrow, Fire and the very Darkness of the Depths.
The Mother Unknown, the Great Wise Woman, who taught her children the secrets of Letters, Numbers, Stars, Crops, Cattle and a myriad more.

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>>88691007
I know we don't have a specific 'jak for him, but I would love to see your take on Ozymandias.
I personally see him as one of those Buddhist mummies, but decked out in Lemurian fineries instead of a simple robe.

>>88691042
I'm fucking around with the names of the Mother on my chart until we settle on something people can agree on.

>Mother Unknown
does have a ring to it in that text though.

>>88690768
I believe they were also a pair of very renown criminals/assassins in medieval France, Reims iirc.

>>88691044
Likely some of the trippy Hindu visuals that were originally painted on the temples still standing in India. Wild colors, the like. Also some Egyptian influence too.

>>88691007
You shall address him as Your Radiance, slave!

>>88691159
>Likely some of the trippy Hindu visuals that were originally painted on the temples still standing in India. Wild colors, the like. Also some Egyptian influence too.
Will remember for if I get to him. Sounds fun honestly.

>>88690489
It could be a dice roll number. So 1-12 Morlocks a summon.

>>88686235
Wrote it all myself, though there's a lot of stylistic influence from a variety of poems, Poe, Howard, Coleridge, a couple others.

>>88691171
sorry bro, I play Hyperborea

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My headcanon is that His Radiance uses an armor made of purest possible Titanium, which causes it to glow faintly with the colour reminiscent of the crystals growing on Titanium ores. Or uses some sort of paint made from said crystals. You might ask: why doesn't the Titanium King himself decorate himself in such fashion? I say, the Baron is a man of refined tastes, whereas the King is far more practical. He doesn't care much for fashion. He doesn't care much for anything that doesn't mean war, really.

>>88691277
as the anon who originally made His Radiance, the filename made me kek. GLORIOUS!

>>88691277
I like the idea that the Titking is just an actual fucking madman and everyone around him has to cope with it.
And Titking is such a good wartime general that while everyone around him scrambles to prevent as many wars as possible, he's crushing the few that he manages to bludgeon through his own bureaucracy

Titking is the leader you play if you want violence.
Pearlescent Princes is who you play if you want to win.

His Radiance, the Good Baron Phosphorous is who you play if you want to have fun.

call for help from the unit list - if the anon who added the Neptunium Baron to the british list is here, I wouldn't mind getting some info on who that is, as I cant find anything in earlier threads.

>>88691319
People just don't get how to play Titking. He's a fucking killing machine, he's supposed to be up there, bashing heads in, not barking orders from afar.
>b-but what if he dies
You're playing Atlans, the only people dying should be your enemies or your slaves. Fucking 5e kiddies, I swear...

>>88691319
Only good? His Radiance is GLORIOUS!

>>88691329
See yeah I'd say that Titking would be more meta, if whenever he tried to step next to the princes he didn't get fucking slapped in one shot by her stupid fucking knife.

Princess counters Titking, so Princess is just too important in the mirror match.

>>88673440
How about this
> "As the only human migratory warlike civilization of the deep, the various tribes that makes up the Lemurian culture have had to deal more than others with the danger of deep drunkenness. Frequent raiding or exploratory missions throughout the caves, often made much quicker thanks to the use of chariots, would normally result in a quick degeneration and death. At higher Layers a subject might become a Husk within a few months of such lifestyle. How, then, is it that only a small percentage of Lemurians finds themselves affected by those travels?
The answer lies in the Art of Vedic Cultivation. The entirety of Lemurian culture is shaped by it. This philosophy stresses to the highest degree the need for constant physical, mental and spiritual training, as well as a balance between those aspects. Its practitioners will regularly ingest alchemical concoctions designed to push their bodies and mind to the human limits (and beyond, in many cases). It equally restrict practices and behaviours which lower the strenght of the body, mind or soul, such as menial work, accounting or mingling with women for too long.
...

>>88691354
> Obviously, no civilization may thrive without some form of labourers at its disposal, which is where the Degenerates come from. As Lemurian culture emphasizes the validity of strenght above all else, a cultivator which desires to pursue his Art further may very well force unfortunate, weaker individuals into labour positions. It is important to note that there are no slaves in Lemuria, not really. There are no body of law which prescribes how Lemurian may act or acquire slaves, or that defines their social role. There is however a very strong cultural pressure to prove your strenght by forcing others to submit, which is equally met by the expectation that a "master" that goes lazy and weak should be killed by a stronger "slave". In practice, however, this means many Lemurians or victims of raids end up working long enough to turn into Degenerates. Those poor souls are doomed to remain in the lowest rung of society for the rest of their short lives. "

>>88691325
Go for exploiting the native resources and dealing with the locals.

>Neptunium Baron
>Imperialist, Rational
>expert at driving colonists off "his" land
>keeps the lights on back in London, literally

I can't decide if I'd rather such a person ride a flamethrower tank, field flamethrower infantry, or just go into battle like an axe crazy Colonel Kurtz.

From one of the early early threads. Whoever made it didn't make a 'jak, which is why it probably wasn't added.

>>88691354
>>88691363
That's cool, but I think some degenrates are also results of Prophecy failure. Maybe Deep Drunk and the perils of Prophecy are somehow related.

Almost at bump limit. Anyone up to start the new thread?

>>88691319
Baron is scary when you run him with Immortals, though, owing to his Greek Fire buffs.

>>88691402
Scary to who? Morlocks?
Everybody can kite Immortals.

>>88691414
(USER WAS BURNT TO DEATH FOR THIS POST)

>>88691397
Or maybe they just succumb to Deep Drunk after their mind and soul get burned out by Prophecy.

>>88690215
i think we should rename "heroes" to "legends". it confuses it less with leaders in concept while also getting across that "larger than life named figure" idea better.

>>88691468
>i think we should rename "heroes" to "legends".
Not a bad idea.

>>88691393
cheers mate

Since Unit anon is still collecting ideas, here's a proposal for Atlan assassin
Atlan Manhunter
>Toughest, slowest assassin, but still one of the fastest Atlans
>Comes with a Molerat
>Molerat can sniff out stealthed units
>When attacking the same target with the Molerat, both have their damage dice explode on 1
>If Molerat dies, can still benefit from attacking a target together with someone, but only the Manhunter gets the benefits
>Molerat can be replaced
>Can also throw Titanium nets, that immobilize people (they can break free with a Melee test?)
>No special assassination stuff

another thing we should talk about is what degree of randomness we want in the game. i'm seeing things like 1d4 damage, 1-12 morlocks getting summoned; this is a dice game with randomization built in but i think a discussion is to be had on to what extent we want it to take place. imo nothing is more of a feelsbad then overly-randomized damage/summoning so i think we should try and reduce it via implementing things like 1d3 + 2 instead of 1d6, for instance.

>>88691579
an Atlan assassin is one hell of a design challenge

Maybe just like some kind of turtle guy. Super heavily armoured, super slow moving, super high damage?

>>88691588
>another thing we should talk about is what degree of randomness we want in the game.
I prefer games with little randomness, where most of the success or failure is tactical and not on the dice results.
But I know randomness is a must, so we'll see.

>>88691597
I'd say he doesn't need to be a turtle. Maybe he wears a light Titanium chainmail.

>>88691608
Also possible Atlan doesn't have a dedicated assassin unit.
They already have the Springgunner, and Snipers fill a very similar role.