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>TL;DR Doc (WIP) This needs a bit more fleshing out
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LxdaGoBlJRTMuziMDupG5TeeFwNDnsIW2pfaRAcFDgA
> Lore Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bRrxdD1BMLmcMDFeszwqg2Rcjrt8DDo7tjAxoOB6KQ8
> Rules Doc I think the anon maintaining this is MIA
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1njSLKKQFa9ri4w3A_09JW78uXFbFOFf8XVjncxPYIC8
> Unit Spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rcleQtrT4Q0INiBW50-kq2ZXWJ-cjLOeVTLTJg_oX5E

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> HEAR YE, HEAR YE!
Here's a Rules Doc that is a bit better formatted than the previous one, it should be editable by all
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/14ZpHhEyUbjt-SCx2xuAd0lyh7Rs4J7rK5kHkljqykhk/

Lore and writefaggotry is cool and all, but we risk never finishing anything if we continue fleshing the world out without touching the game.
Try to discuss any rules here, comments in google docs are a pain to read

>>88727804
Is there a way we could reduce this to just D6s only. Having only one type of dice (Fewer game pieces overall) is a good thing.

>>88727865
>D6s
Probably yeah, I've based the rolls on what the first rules anon proposed and he liked 1d10s
A 2d6 for skills could probably work with a bit of value reshuffling

>>88727921
I mean its not a huge hurdle. We already have many models on the board and most EPIC GAMERS have enough dice to go around.
Still, worth considering.

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I would theoretically like the setting to make sense to some degree if possible. This is a shot in that direction. Feedback is welcome. I will try to do something more constructive later. Let me know if using a tripcode is kosher here - I just think the discussion could use some added clarity on who is doing/thinking about what.

>>88727804
i'm raising a red flag at light/line of sight. in a game with 10-15 models as a starting point the last thing you want to worry about is what cone of vision each guy has.

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>>88728092
Sound pretty good from the initial readup anon, just not sure about the Tyrant being elected.
Only semi-related, but I love that Ethiopia is shapping up to a important member of the Alliance of the Faithful. Ethiopian christian got some rad looks.
I don't regret making up that Lion Guard Unit.

>>88727804
also not a fan of how turn order will just sometimes give your guys half the amount of actions. just make it alternating activation after the beginning will roll, no one wants to roll ANOTHER set of dice for each of your 15 dudes that sometimes means your guy just does worse.

>>88728437
>i'm raising a red flag at light/line of sight. in a game with 10-15 models as a starting point the last thing you want to worry about is what cone of vision each guy has.
Simplify it to being able to draw a straight line from any edge of your unit's current hex, to either the centre of or side of the target hex.

>>88728471
>Ethiopian christian got some rad looks.
And some rad history. I'd be fully happy to include Ethiopia into the mix, even if only as a sub-faction.

>>88728571
I'm doing some write-up on the Alliance of the Faithfull, gonna include them in it. Seem to me they would be a major member.
It's funny that two continental power block are slowly forming, it's easy to imagine how in a few decades after the time of the setting a alternative WW1 could happen. Except really weird.

Also, Tiger Brigade theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqo4Ad6t2Kk

i like the ranged combat rules so far, especially for firing in melee. we could probably just have two modifiers: light and heavy. light weapons have a bonus to attacking in melee and would include things like pistols, while heavy weapons would have a negative. illumination is my only real problem with it; we could probably just have a keyword like "Enshrouded" that gives a minus to hit.

i'm thinking melee should just be the same as ran as hits and then armor, not only for KISS but also because the two combats feeling cohesive in how they play out will help games run smoother.

>>88728559
that's already a rule for shooting though, so i don't get having a 180* cone of vision

>>88728627
>that's already a rule for shooting though, so i don't get having a 180* cone of vision
I also agree that vision cones are redundant. Like, you can turn your head to look behind you if needed. Vision should just be assumed if you have line of sight to a lighted target in any direction.

I'm not sure either about the light, from what been talked about, layers have places like jungles, steppes, desert in the layers, all that sound like it would be under the the light of the inner sun.

>>88728663
This should be defined by zones, to make it extra weird. No logic at all. Some zones in perpetual darkness, others have a day cycle.

>>88727865
No, this is dumb. Material concerns have not restricted us yet and for some reason we should go back to meme dices just to satiate the normies? Fuck that.

Hallo there, having finished England and France (as there seems to be debate on what surface factions ought to be cut to slim down the setting, has there been a conclusion to that?)

I am now doing Atlantis! And the underground as a whole - which is why I am wondering if anyone who’s been more present in the threads can give a list of what units have been given names/characteristics, so that I can progress without fear of missing agreed upon details.

>>88729596
>(as there seems to be debate on what surface factions ought to be cut to slim down the setting, has there been a conclusion to that?)
Just to pause on developing the Tsardom, We generally agreed that tightening things was good, but the Tsardom was the only faction that we all seemed to be fine with cutting.
Satsuma was too cool, America has its place etc.

Alright, we seem to have a solid idea of how model health will be tracked, what about damage?
How are Wounds and their severity determined?
How does Armour (evasion too?) play a role?

VERY barebones draft for damage proposal.

You roll X number of D6/D10 etc. based on the units attacks, adding relevant bonuses.
Subtract defensive roll results/modifiers. That's how many Damage Points you have to spend on that Attack.

Inflicting a Scratch costs, say [Enemy Armour] + 1 DP.
A Wound costs [Armour]*2
A Critical Wound costs [Armour]^2

Again, very basic and not refined. Just proposing some way to translate rolls to damage amounts. Basically, the difference between your Attack roll and the defensive roll results = how many points you have to spend on Wounds.
OR, an alternative,
the defending player selects what type of wounds to take?

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>>88728092
Anon, this is so sick I need to be quarantined now. Maybe we could shiffts the earlier dates forward for a decade or two, but otherwise this is downright incredible shit. Liberal Bonapartist Volcano Pagans are as good as ratified in my mind. I also think maybe the Tyrant resigning is excessive. Just have him lose in Ethiopia after the Faithful suddenly rush to their aid, leading to Ethiopia's addition to the Alliance, and that's it.

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>>88728092
>Towards the end of 1871, the Volcano Lord of Stromboli...
this fucking setting, man

>>88730502
Last thread I suggested having armor as a straight up save, set before determining the type of wound.
I thought we had settled on d12.
By default
> 1-5 : graze
> 6-10 : wound
> 11-12 : critical.
Lower or raise the ceiling/floor for each point of difference between (attacker stat) and (defender stat). So let's say Gog hits a puny little Husked, say at +4 Strenght (or pen or whatever), then it'd be
> 1 : Graze
> 2-6 : Wound
> 7+ : Critical.

>>88730734
i would make it so crits are Armor*2, wounds are Armor+2, and scratches are just Armor, but otherwise i really like this.

>>88730823
>>88730876

I'm imagining something like...

>Defender resolves wounds based on degree of success. (Damage that got through.)

>Can resolve 8 damage into a Grievous Wound, 4 into a Major Wound and 1 into a Scratch.
Maybe have any class of wound chunk off 1 point of Armour, so you can resolve 8 Damage into a single "point" of Armour damage?
OR just use armour as the metric of how much points are translated into regular damage. Just tossing ideas out now, I don't have any solid idea in my mind yet for this.

>>88730823
The Husked has no armor in this example, right?

>>88730906
Armour roll should come before wound determination, and wasnt included in this. Per9I was thinking about this with location in mind but we dropped those except for characters, before I thought armor could be location dependent based on equipment. Say the Husk takes a hit to the chest, arm save is 7+ because of hes got a chest plate. If it saves it is reduced by 1, if it fails it is then reduced by 4 (Gog's strenght) to 3+. If the hit is on the head, which is unprotected, the save is 12 (let's say you always get a minimum save).
Could work as well without locations.

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>>88727682
> THE HORDE GROWS!
I will make this a real thing. I just have to find my BT maps.

>>88731269
Based. Don't forget to drop feedback on the mechanics we're discussing.

>>88730977
So should the save be straight Armour or parsed Durability? I don't really see a problem with it.

>>88730903
I'm going to shill my Totally not a ripoff of Fallout Damage Threshold idea from last thread, where your armour value negates all damage equal to that value, with damage rolling over to hit health if the armour is too low. Armour is reduced by an amount per hit, maybe dependent on the degree of wound.
E.g
>Atlan Immortal With 8 armour and 8 health is hit for 10 damage
>2 damage rolls over to hit his health
>2 armour damage is taken because it was a wound
>The Atlan Immortal now has 6 armour and 6 health
If the damage was lower than 8 he would have taken solely armour damage, and if greater he would have taken more armour and health damage.

>>88731487
I don't mind this. Say, 3 armour damage for a Critical hit, 2 for a Major hit and 1 for a Minor hit?

Figuring out what place Armour plays in the damage calcs is going to be very useful for visualising the whole damage resolution step of combat.

Static value that reduces damage? Pseudo-Health that can't be healed? What even is it?

>>88728092
> "declares a general state of agitation."
Sensiblechuckle.jpg
Seriously tho this is great.

>>88731512
If you convert numbers to wounds you might as well just have a health pool. This is multiplying steps for nothing, especially with a hitbox mechanic in the end.

>>88731536
>If you convert numbers to wounds you might as well just have a health pool.
numerical health pools are harder to track. You gain more than you lose swapping to wound tracking.

>>88731512
Using my DT idea, I think it could be classified as a pseudo-health that reduces damage. The armour negates damage, but is reduced at a lower rate than health itself over time. If you roll high enough, or use armour piercing abilities, you can kill a unit that still has armour, or you can whittle the armour down until they're as weak as a regular unit, e.g with Morlock spam.

>>88731477
You can do both.
What do we really gain by each options.
Degrading armor might be an interesting mechanic but it might also be 100% superfluous if the mooks dies on the 2nd hit no matter what.
Personally unless you gain something specific by making it more complex you should keep it as simple as a single Value test.

>>88731561
>numerical health pools are harder to track.
No they are not.
You are bitching about erasing and rewriting a number and suggest we replace this with generating a number first, converting it to a wound, and then tracking it on a track. It's literally more work.

>>88731604
>It is literally more work.
Not really. In fact is arguably less work.

>Get wound type, draw a line in a box
vs
>Calculate damage, do maths, erase and rewrite health totals.

>>88731561
>>88731604
To be clear I'm not suggesting we go to a health pool, I'm suggesting we skip whatever # wound to wound type you have in mind.

>>88731663
>>Get wound type, draw a line in a box
This is fine, what I dont like is
> roll to generate # of damage
> convert damage to type of wounds
> apply to track.

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>before Atlantis sank, the nobility and upper class were heavily inspired by Aristotle's philosophy and dialetics
>the bronze age collapse had damaged their social structure though
>in response to Athenian Democracy and the rising suspicion of revolt, the government transformed itself into an aristocracy, based on Aristotles views on the ideal and functional government
>skilled but retired generals, proto-lawyers, highly popular senators, doctors, priests and philosophy students of highly gifted intellect made up the body of the governing force, preventing corruption or possible imbalance of societies needs
>unfortunately the event known as Poseidon's Calamity occured, flooding the great island nation and causing a seismic shift.
>several temples and whole districts were thrown into the sea, leaving only several thousand to find air-pocketed cave systems and coves to hide in, slowly beginning a excavation to create a new society

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>many ruins have only recently been discovered thanks to ingenious designs by the modern civilized man, a realization that, in fact, the ruins are situated alwys near air tunnels that lead into the many waterfall systems of the lost land. These are the paths the ancient atlanteans had to take in order to survive.
>currently they are abandoned as the modern atlantean citizens choose to move deeper in-land to reestablish their city-state, only the accounts of Captain Nemo having any claim of this

>>88732052
>>88732098
IMO, we should integrate the Fall of Atlantis with the Titans-Hyperborea metaplot. Titans were proposed as "rock giants" but we can go extra schizo. They were silicoid life forms that predate humanity and were responsible for uplifting Atlantis. One of them, Atlas, or at least a part of him could even have been the literal island/continent of Atlantis. When the Titans, in their arrogance, declared war upon the Hyperboreans, they were destroyed, leaving only Titanium and some artifacts behind. Atlas in an effort to save, if not his people, then at least life on Earth, sacrificed himself to seal the Firmament, which is believed to have caused him unspeakable agony. Given how Titans were weird rock creatures, he may even still be technically alive, permamently stuck as part of the sky dome. Thus the Atlas now bears the Heavens. Because of this Atlantis the island/continent began to sink.

>>88731487
I still don't get how this was supposed to be somehow more complicated, honestly.

>>88732052
>>88732098
I actually REALLY like the tunnel idea, because it allows for an alternative explanation of why Atlanteans got to the 5th layer. I do like the layers-forming-chronologically-and-retconing-their-own-non-existence theory, but some ambiguity to whether its true is welcome.

>>88731487
let's just do HP numbers and reduce damage by this much, we can move back to wound counting if we think it'll add more to the game but this is a simpler start.

>>88732188
This also allows for a different take on an Atlan split, with the proto-Atlans getting separated in a different system of tunnels and ending up on the 4th Layer instead.

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>>88732110
>The Firmament was the Wall all along
>And you've all crossed it!

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>>88732851
Atlan is for niggers.

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>>88732851
It may not be the Sacred Wall,
but we'll damn well expand the wall there after we conquer the firmament!

>>88730823
>>88731487
I think we really should settle on this tree tier system on a 1d12 roll and use PenetrationVSDurability/Armour to determine exact incoming damage. Using either the Armour=Durability model or straight/parsed Durability will work, honestly.

>>88733046
>Using either the Armour=Durability model or straight/parsed Durability will work, honestly.
Yeah honestly it won't matter which we use they're both similar.

I would still be on the side of parsing them for the sake of both unit variety and ease of balancing (If Armour turns out too OP and we don't parse them, then we only have one value to tweak instead of two).

remember
the Sacred Atlan Wall can't fall if nobody knows where it is to siege it

anons, time for the ultimate question:

>what miniature scale

>>88733577
1:1

>>88728471
>not sure about the Tyrant being elected.
A very valid concern! We just agreed last thread that the Tyrant should not be the historical Bourbon king, since they were so deeply tied to Catholicism and reactionarism. A sort of impromptu electoral oligarchy seemed the way to go, possibly linked to liberal dissident elements.

>>88730751
Thank you! One minor note. The Tyrant does not resign, just the gray eminence behind him (and even then it's arguable that the Count of Trani is just still pursuing his hidden agenda). Btw, the other things in the story are based on real life facts: real life liberal agitations, real life figures, real life folklore, real life caves and archaeological sites, etc.

>>88732872
you are a redditor, at least spiritually.

Hoping the rules get figured out so I can make a proper US armybook.

what if
>Highest roll on your dice = Critical Wound (D6 = 6
>Top half of your dice = Major Wound (D6 = 4+5)
>Bottom half of dice = Minor Wound (D6 = 1,2,3)

Smaller dice would do "More" damage in this case.
Armour would, simply, reduce the severity of an injury by a number of points similarly.

Or, any roll result above the top of your dice (7+ on a D6) is Critical, the top two results are Major, anything else is Minor?

>>88733656
You've reminded me, actually, of how the "tyrants" in Antiquity were often leaders of popular revolts against established authorities, which also works very well with this take on the Three Sicilies.
>>88733762
Do remind me, as it escapes me at this point, is this supposed to be your damage roll, attack roll or a separte roll altogether?

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>Retards trying to reinvent the wheel here with rules
>While the entire fucking game with expansions exists to cover this
Just admit that you wanted to post bunch of wojaks and now trying to justify existence of this crap still going on.

>>88734115
>RPG rules
>The same as a Skirmish game rules
Uh ?

>>88734115
>pre-WWII rpg is the same thing as a jules-verne skirmish game because there are wacky things below the ground

>>88734115
Yeah, but does it have Morlock spam?

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>>88734173
speaking of, did we ever decide on what they'd look like? i'm assuming it's mostly the same as the source they're based on, but the picture we have for the main guys vs. the shaman have a good bit of distance between them.

also >heavy shock infantry
lmfao

>>88734129
>I am such a massive no-game, I can't connect the dots
But the biggest irony being this game has separate fucking booklet for skirmish rules, along with having the condensed version of them in the main book, too.

>>88734155
>I don't know the game in question, but I will try to justify my wojak compass anyway
1/10, made me mass-reply

>>88734173
If that what floats your boat - yes.
I mean fuck, it even can have pirate spam, if you decide to.

>>88734267
I figured they are smaller, weaker and with more aquatic features.

>>88734115
Anon has a point here. We could at least use this book as a reference point. My personal preference is also that we lean on a more granular skirmish game, the sort in which each unit in your band can basically be outfitted almost like an RPG game. I think this would lend support to the more narrative-oriented kind of system I feel people want.

>>88734525
>>88734115 's dickish attitude aside, I agree with at least taking a look. I've uploaded it here:
>https://gofile.io/d/FqkC5E
From skimming through it, the system uses a dice pool, with even sides counting as successes.
Combat is done by opposing Attacks vs Defense rolls, the difference in the number of success dice is then dealt as damage.
They use a lot of dice, in the example of play a character rolls 14! dice in a single attack, 9 from skill + 4 from weapon +1 from specialization.

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>>88727804
Original rules anon here. Thanks for taking the torch. I have been busy with irl things. I'll read the whole thing l8er but from just a brief look it is formatted waaay better. I never really clamed to be good at formatting and I was sure Ill need help with it at some point, but this is a cooperative creation prosses after all. That is why there was so much yellow text, I didnt want to be the judge of anything without more people deciding. I trust you just copied and reformatted as well as adding some of the tings that were already written and didnt for from scratch.
>>88727865
Yes I like to have sex with d10s. I thought long and hard about d6s but theres really no reason for it. you'll just make the games smaller and dumber. We could make a second large scale game that isn't focused on individual character that uses base d6s.
>>88729174
This Anon gets it
>>88727921
I also suggested a d12 as abas. 2d6 does kinda fill that role, tho its more like a fucked d11. But I fear that if we use 2d6s for stuff like shooting it will create a disbalance. There needs to be more though put into it.

>>88727720
>I think the anon maintaining this is MIA
I was but really no work was done cuz no one was suggesting anything. I got kinda burned out and also had some stuff to do irl. I could write the whole thing on my own but I didnt want to do that damn it

>>88727720
>>88727682
I hate to suggest this but how about we create one more doc thats about the rules for a campaign gameplay? It shouldn't really be longer then the skirmish document. Here you can talk more about the lore of each of the factions. Its LORE applied. The basic idea is to have a game that takes place in-between the skirmish games and makes them more important, as the results of them would matter more and set up future encounters. I think there were the beginnings of them a couple threads ago, or maybe they were placed in the old doc idk I cant remember. Also someone else should format thme.

>>88733656
Tripbro, I did some cursory research. Depending on where we'll eventually settle the timeline, do you think the Volcanobonari could make a comeback after some OTL failures, using the volcano haxx? So the Republic would rise around the 40s. So Ferdinand II gets volcanoed, Austrians have their hands full already, everything else goes more or less the same, just later. Not married to it, just keeping options open closer to the 50-70s timeframe.

>>88736004
Anon who had that idea here, I don't think it got added to any of the docs, or maybe it did, not sure. My basic idea was that there is a kind of ongoing campaign, and each player controls their army/expedition moving them on a wider campaign map, that contains several layers restricted to a small region, pursuing all sorts of objectives and skirmishing with enemy players. Units would carry over from skirmish to skirmish, and lost units would be lost for good until you replace them at a resupply point, which would be factional dependent. Workers would be immensely important here, allowing you to dig through obstacles and much of the map, but losing them in a skirmish would cripple your chances for further exploration. This campaign map would also determine battlefield environments, perhaps with bonuses for faction strengths. E.g a Brit player would want to fight in an open cavern with gunlines, while a Lemurian might want to focus on CQB cave combat.

>>88736004
>>88736683
I think we should hold off on that and focus on making the skirmish rules first.

>>88737664
Agreed. Keep development time focused until a playable product is ready.

>>88727682
>bespoke wargame.
What does this mean?

>>88738076
You know, like a suit.

>>88736015
That could be done if we need to shift the timeline forward. We could have the first insurrection (the one on the mainland) fail, but cramming three whole ass wars in 30 years might seem somewhat rushed. Again, not opposed to it. The main points for me have been:
>tether the alt history to real history for plausibility
>try not to go too ham so that other people can keep developing the story
>Tie the story of 3S with the rest of the setting. Trani has a history of vampirism and there are many caves in Apulia, it could be easy to tie the Count to la Ombre

everything else is a plus.

>>88733577
Whatever you agree to play with with the poor souls you've no doubt recruited English Navy-style into doing this.
This could be done with paper cut outs for all that matter.

>>88734270
shut the fuck up, you asshurt faggot. nobody cares about your literal who RPG game.

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Back.
Toss up between Vitravana and Lee-Dehr for the next portrait.

>>88739034
Great work anon, personally I'd go for Lee-Dehr.

Also, reading the previous discussions, my thoughts are.

>If you Hit, it starts as a Grievous Wound. Guns hurt, and you're shooting to kill.
>Armour / Evasion are checks the defender can make reduce the severity of an injury.

Evasion is a free defensive check that every unit gets. Armour costs 1 point of Armour to make the check. No "Hardness" or penetration to track or anything.
MAYBE a Penetration score that determines how many points of Armour it costs to make an Armour check?
Maybe also, you can make as many Armour checks as you want per incoming Hit, spending Armour for each dice you're rolling, each successful check reducing the Wound class by 1 degree.

>>88731487
That is what I was going to suggest last thread, but you got to it first. I would, however, suggest it just being losing one armour for taking damage.

>8 armour, 8 health, recieve 10dmg, take 2 damage, lose one armour

>>88733762
>>88730823
>>88730903

I was thinking we take from pathfinder for crits. In pathfinder, if you go ten over the target amount, its a cit. I think we should do the same.

(I'm using the fallout system for this)If it goes over the armour value, its a graze, if it goes 50% over the amount its a wound, if it goes double over the armour value, its a crit.
Assuming we are still going for wounds

>>88739078
Certain units should be able to also use saves to ignore Wounds, i.e. the Gunnery Sergeant.

>>88739119
>>88739125
Fallout damage is solid, honestly. But what do you think about my suggestion of
>Every Hit, no matter how high the roll, simply starts as a Grievous Wound. Its a fucking gun after all.
>Defensive rolls are the things which reduce the severity of an injury.

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>>88727682
> Cromwell's Cadaverous Column engage an Aztec war party in an open cave of the 4th Layer, circa 1801, colorized.
For feels, to picture what 15 per side models look like on a standard BT hexmap.

>>88739352
Honestly this was great to help me visualise. 15 seems just SLIGHTLY too big, and I think the play area could be larger.
Maybe aim for army sizes of around 8-12? Morlocks pushing 15-16, Atlan down around 6-8?

>>88739377
I agree with you
>>88739352
Read about battetech, but never had anyone to play with. Is the map 15x17 hexes? We can make it a bit bigger to accomodate larger expeditions, like between 5-10 for each side

>>88739377
15 seems a bit too big for a single sheet like this, but ultimately doable. This thing is this map is insanely open in comparison to what's been discussed, too. Imagine if you have to dig most of the paths up, with around 2/3 of your group in tow doing nothing for half of the game.
No only is this not fun but it also opens up gameplay problems. If objectives are not purely "kill each other", than some games could end up people digging around each other not engaging because it then becomes easier to race for the objective rather than fight the enemy to slow him down..

>>88739421
more like 17 X 18.

>>88739428
>No only is this not fun but it also opens up gameplay problems. If objectives are not purely "kill each other", than some games could end up people digging around each other not engaging because it then becomes easier to race for the objective rather than fight the enemy to slow him down..
I feel like yeah, digging on the actual board sounds loathsome.

Perhaps we approach this more like an RTS? Off-the-hexgrid resource gathering to pay for units to send onto the actual grid?

https://www.1898miniaturas.com/shop/en/15-usa
possible source for US miniatures

>>88739455
>Off-the-hexgrid resource gathering to pay for units to send onto the actual grid?
Since I'm seeing a future where this game could be upgraded from "will never be played" to "will never be played outside of by folks here", I think the "campain" side of it could even be made to be a "living game" archived here. As in, you have one hexmap overworld that defines the layers and faction's starting points, and then each hex could be its own maps that get developed, dug up, explored and settled. The individual skirmishe maps are not tracked, and if you wanted to adapt it to 3d terrain with a bit of conversion and play a more regular Mordheim skirmish game (possibly even representing surface battles), then you could.
I know this ends up going a lot in "well you should be making a vidya" territory but it would require only so much updating.
and if it becomes too heavy, we could move this to, and forgive me for uttering the term, /qst/ .

>>88739585
>As in, you have one hexmap overworld that defines the layers and faction's starting points, and then each hex could be its own maps that get developed, dug up, explored and settled.

Okay so how about this. All the way back we had ideas of '3d chess' or whatever with multiple hex grids, and a main battlefield between.

How about each player gets a "Base" tile and has to build their army before making some kind of "beachhead" or "entry point" (some environmental hole or whatever you place on the main battlefield where your units can come out)?

>>88739352
Didnt Cromwell got deleted by Napoléon and Malcom?

>>88739749
He lurk in the shadow of their power, but such evil do not die easily.

>>88739749
He was allied with Hyperborea, remember?
He had a Memory Engine not far when he got gibbed, of which he reemerged out of sheer will (although not unscathed, he's basically half Memory Engine himself).
Bit of an asspull by the authors if you ask me but on the other hand if it allows me to still field him canonically I'm fine with it.

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bros
what if the Hyperborean Omni-Agonizer is actually Napoleon from the far future come to take revenge on those that forsook him

>>88739585
to be honest I always envisioned it this way, not the /qst/ part hopefully
>>88739455
>pay for units
we could have a system like in billion suns, where you pay for units and where you have no limit on the amount of units you can take, but objectives only provide a small amount of points. So you could techically send a gigantic expedition, but you'll spend more than you gain from it and thus lose on points

>>88740752
>we could have a system like in billion suns, where you pay for units and where you have no limit on the amount of units you can take, but objectives only provide a small amount of points. So you could techically send a gigantic expedition, but you'll spend more than you gain from it and thus lose on points
Seems like a good balancing method to consider.
You can field an army that's larger than a 'prize' to capture it, and you'd have that army for the next objective, but that still puts you behind if your opponent is more conservative and out-tactics you to get it with a smaller army.
Has potential.

>>88740533
Nah. Napoo is napoo, Hyperborean can have Cromwell if they want.

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>>88740752
Rough proposal. Pls be kind my paint skills are beyond shit.

>>88741053
>A "Vertical" hexgrid
honestly?
that's totally fucking kino

>>88741053
Why Paris is half a map away from the Eiffel Tower...
Nevermind I'm retarded, didn't get the map was from the side.

Little correction : Paris is on the Third layer, not the fourth. 2nd layer is the "Normal World" and 1st layer the sky/firmament/whatever.

>>88741077
Thanks, top down, may make sense for small exploration campaigns between players exploring a small cave network,, but otherwise verticality is way more important to the setting, I feel.
I put ceilings completely randomly, and I don't know much what defines each Layer beyond Paris is at the bottom of the 4th Layer and Eiffel Tower goes all the way up from it. If any anon wants to provide info to further specify them, I'll edit it in. Also, what are the important topside locations?

>>88741116
Ah! thanks will correct it later tonight.

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>>88741224
Nice, I think the idea is great btw, vertical hexgrid sound nice. Nicely done anon !
Also don't forget, the layer closed up over Fallen-Paris. "WATCH OUT FOR LAYER CONTRACTION !"

>>88741331
Ah! Thank you!

>>88741053
>The 'Vertical HExgrid' is where units dig and seek out treasures.
>When units connect with each other, then you open a Skirmish battlemap and deploy
Honestly seems like a great campaign mode. Could fill a whole evening.

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>>88741356
Thanks, seemed like a natural development.
New version.

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>>88741582
>Hyperboria Pain Realms
>Hyperboria Pain waterfall
Worrying

>>88741582
>Antarctic Pain Waterfall
god fucking damnit what is this setting
also, this matches perfectly with Noah's flood lmao

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>>88741671
>>88741718
>>88741582
>When you are taken to the Hyperborian Pain Realm

>>88741671
>>88741718
>>88741739
Thanks! This is a great way to kill an afternoon, also, could someone tell me which layer Lemurians are supposed to be in? Also, is the Nation named Lemuria?
Since there is a great emphasis on chariots, they should be somewhere where there is a lot of ceiling right? Also, Skypeople? In one specific layer or roving all over the ceilings?

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>>88741815
Well there is a lot of ceilling everywhere, remember, the third layers got shit like jungles and sea.

From the doc, Lemuria is on the 6th Layer, I don't think this was discussed much, only that they are set up in the ruins of a much older civ.

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>>88741946
>>88741815
Doc also list New Mu and Old Mu to be quite distant, layer wise, do we want to keep that ?

>>88741999
I guess the Mus aren't "Distant" from each other, just that they are vertically very large.

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> When you get killed and your soul gets sucked by a demonic train that feeds on your eternal torment, but you remember that Catholics are still breathing.

>>88743679
>Catholics are still breathing.
QUICK!
GET THE VOLCANO!

>>88739143
That would only apply to the gun units, right? Since most of the Undergrounders seem to be melee focused.

>>88743830
Everything. Swords, guns, whatever.

what skin colour do Gorgs have?
Its clearly not green because they have green hats.

>>88744228
honestly i've envisioned them as having pale skin like the wojaks. basically white-as-a-ghost cavemen given semi-modern sky people equipment and told to go bash some brains in while off their nuts on stink juice.

>>88744255
Noted. Pale as fuck cave bros. Makes sense.

i also like to think that they're constantly shown with a drunken rosiness to their faces, but that could just be my love of painting drunk ogres showing through.

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Alright bros, sorry if you think I'm lazy for this but I was going to do the Lee-Dehr portrait but remembered I had a copy of the old mid-90s DOS game they made after the system skyrocketed.

Anyways I had an old copy. Absolute bitch to get working, but instead of doing a Lee-Dehr portrait myself I just decided to take a sceencap of his portrait from the game. Hope you don't mind.

>>88744732
holy SOVL

i miss the gorgs so much bros

Bing bang boom, that's one more down.

Vritavana next?

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lmao forgot to upscale for export
oops

>>88744795
Atlantis needs some love, man

>>88744858
true, but I'm saving them for last because they're the most human-like and thus least fun to draw
Will consider doing Perseus though.

>>88744805
Jesus christ what a lovable face.

>>88744980
Everybody loves the Gorgs.
And that's a fact.

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REJECT MODERNITY
EMBRACE GORG

>>88744732
>>88744805
Thank you based portrait anon, brilliant work.

>>88745388
Cheers mate. Will probably do an Atlantis one next now that I think of it.

>>88740752
honestly I'm of the mind that it should be like 40k in some ways that default gear is free, but different gear listed with the unit costs money as opposed to army size points. Regular army or mercenaries your guys will cost money just to get deployed, and that includes reserved units and using more auxiliaries then what's permitted. I also think army size should be determinate of the amount of leadership value and your amount of leader characters. Obviously you need an expedition leader, who can either be physically represented or not, then their officers and enforcers. You sum up the number of leadership characters then add their value, then thats the total number of units you have free of charge. So at best you'll have ten-twenty odd guys altogether with money having being used to add more.

Bumpo. Goodnight main posters, sleep well.

ALRIGHT!
Seems like we're settling on damage mechanics now. We just have to actually settle on something that's relatively finalised, then we can move onto hashing out other mechanics like movements, how action points factor into turn order and everything else.

>>88746697
So have we settled on the health being wound checkboxes?
In that case I'd vote for >>88731487 Fallout style system with >>88739119 change of losing 1 point of armor per hit
Weapon damage is dealt using a dice roll, penetration can be restricted to a special rule for weapons that bypass X number of armor points

So the attack would look something like this:
> Roll under your relevant combat stat
> If successful - roll damage
> Target reduces damage using armor
> Target adds wounds that got through
> Target removes a point of armor

I don't see much point in upgrading wounds like it currently says in the doc. If you have no more boxes to fill - you're out of the fight. After the battle you'd use a casualty chart, like in Mordheim, and the number/severity of wounds would influence the result.

>>88743789
Cromwell influences the dreams of the Sicilian Count. Popery must be eradicated.

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>>88746918
They did kill the king too. hmmmm...

>>88746948
>The NotCyborg Minister Eiffel, on the behalf of his ally the Pope, fight Hellraiser Cromwell, backer of the Italian Volcano pagan
>This all happen in a mushroom jungle under the earth
Eh, nice setting.

>>88746909
>I don't see much point in upgrading wounds like it currently says in the doc
Grazes being free damage means even low health mooks have a chance to take a hit and remain in the fight for another turn. It also opens up space for further gameplay design based on healing and targeting units already damaged.
I'll be honest I think we are getting way ahead of ourselves. The primary concern should be to define "checks" which later are going to be turned into mechanics. Mechanics themselves should either be simple and effective, or enriching and fun. And before we do anything we should translate to physical medium in some way so as to get a visual feedback, because otherwise we end up with stuff which sounds super cool like digging the whole map mechanic but which would end up being an absolute nightmare in real life.

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>>88747585
Also, I think we should try and foster more interest for kitbashing models/finding appropriate models.
t28 may have been a goddamn scam where thousands of dollars were given for something of very little value, but the one thing Fitzgerald did well was stoke enthusiasm for modeling minis in his setting. And despite it being bare as fuck (just "weird napoleonics vegetable warfare) it did make all the way to KS with an official rulebook and official minis.
Half the range of this game could similarly be taken from Perryminiatures. Those arent expensive.

Bump
Seems like I'm the only euro in this thread

>>88746909
>> Roll under your relevant combat stat
>> If successful - roll damage
>> Target reduces damage using armor
>> Target adds wounds that got through
>> Target removes a point of armor
I agree, except I'm also fine with the current Wound system.

>>88748669
Yeah, Imhad an early shift today, thought maybe my Agartha bros were all good boys and going to Church but it's more likely they still sleeping, the lazy fucks.

It's over
Paris has fallen

More thoughts.
> to hit roll
> both players roll d10. Base objective is 6+, modified by a weapon/character stat (say sword are +1, so the attacker adds that to his hit roll, and now hits on 5+.
If attacker succeeds, enemy is hit. Defender gets a defense roll, but this is to show how well he checks the hit. If he fails, not only is he hit, but he will lose Armour, and if there is location determination, the location hit is better. If he succeeds, he gets his normal save, and if his roll is above that of the attacker, he reduces the hit location determination to worse (or the defender gets to choose the location, dunno).

>>88748669
>Spoiler
Nah, I'm just having a busy afternoon.

some of y'all do not so much as glance at the changelog when touching up the lore doc and it shows

>>88749498
Yeah, sorry, I'll make sure to record stuff in the future

>>88746909
>So the attack would look something like this:
Any thoughts on simply having a Hit roll for the attacker, and the Defender rolls to determine wound severity instead of an Attacker's damage roll?

AGREED STEPS OF DAMAGE

>Roll under combat stat

>The TARGET places wounds and armour damage, not attacker
The only thing we're not decided on apparently is whether the Attacker rolls damage, or the Defender rolls defensive rolls, to determine the severity of Wounds.

>>88751007
I say have attacker do it, it seems more intuitive. Attacks can miss and do variable damage. Wounds are a natural extension of that. Your armor is your armor, it's either there or not, what's there to roll for? It's there to be applied.

>>88751105
Alright so, damage calcs.

>Roll N dice, deal a number of Wounds equal to the number of successes?
>Roll 1 die, severity of wound based on result
Seems just having one Wound dealt per success on a dice is easier.
Grievous for 6, Major for 4/5, Minor for 1/2/3?

>>88751150
I don't really follow, so if I roll and get 3 damage I only roll once for wound type for all 3 wounds?
So if I get a 4, all three are marked as Major?

>>88751352
Roll once dice for each Wound you're dealing.

>>88751150
Is it really easier? Just roll damage, substract armor, see if it meets the Graze/Wound/Crit treshhold.

Why the fuck are you guys back to d6?

>>88751369
>Just roll damage, substract armor, see if it meets the Graze/Wound/Crit treshhold.
Checking threshold tables is pretty often slow and loathsome gameplay, though I guess in this case the table would be rather simple.

>>88751425
Stop getting your fucking panties twisted mate we're just using examples to work ideas out.

>>88751425
huh? we're not, stats still use d10s
>>88751369
maybe we can make a simple threshold formula instead of a table, based on armor and/or health?
Like %damage dealt of total health is
> less than 25% - graze
> less than 50% - wound
> otherwise critical

>>88751492
>maybe we can make a simple threshold formula instead of a table, based on armor and/or health?
That's even more math. What rounding do we use? What's 25% or 7? Run into slow play problems here.

I honestly think just skipping the damage roll, and tying the to-hit roll to wound type works better. We could keep numbers tight enough that matching the Target's defenses = Scratch, over by 1 = Wound, over by 2 or more = Critical or something.
Then defender spends Armour to reduce wound categories if needed?

>>88751150
>>88751492
Im not sure if were talking about the same thing but I think it should work off armour not health.
If the damage dealt is greater then armour, its a graze. If damage dealt is more than half the armour its a wound, if damage dealt is equal to or greater than the armour its a crit

>>88751655
What I'm saying is, why parse damage from Hit roll? Is anything gained by making the player have to roll twice for the same action?

>>88751457
>though I guess in this case the table would be rather simple.
I recall something like 1d10 being used as a damage template for many rifle types. Either way, with either d10 or d12 being the highest die ever used, the "table" could be as easy as 1-4, 5-8, 9-12+.

>>88751682
>could be as easy as 1-4, 5-8, 9-12+.
For sure. That is quite simple. Maybe with 13+ being a "Mortal Wound" or something that does just outright kill you?

>>88751691
I like it, but
>insta death on 13+
it's ok when thinking about humans and humanlike models, but Old Mu and the like exist, with things that would probably require more than a rifle to be killed

>>88751732
I'm imagining any result above 5 (or whatever we settle on Major Wound or above being) is going to be rather unlikely. Scratches will be the most common wounds to be tossed around, unless you're running totally un-armoured Morlocks or something.

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If we are still in the process of just proposing things and not settled on anything I would suggest picrell as a To Hit/Save Process.

>>88751747
Oh, I see what you mean
Yeah, in that case I have no complaints, I like it

>>88751771
oh fuck sorry inverted the armour value it should be more
> 2+, 2+, 3+, 3+
This way you can have the same system to hit mooks with a single track or to hit leaders with locations track.

>>88751691
>>88751732
Maybe, depending on what kind of damage things like explosives and artillery do. It's reasonable for them to outright kill you, but also not impossible to survive. As for supernatural creatures, they could have higher mortal wound threshhold or straight up not have it. You just chop and shoot until all boxes are filled and it stops moving.

Okay so, my thoughts.
>We don't need to parse Hit from Damage
You're shooting a gun at someone's centre of mass. We're also assuming that these units are largely trained, expert marksmen. Why would a perfectly accurate shot suddenly deal no damage?
Plus, multiple rolls makes gameplay slower. I think going with a simple "degree of success" table based on the Hit roll, with Target modifiers to reduce wound severity, is fine.

Keeping it to only one Hit roll also puts more pressure on tactics, positioning and such, as those would play a role in the the entire process, instead of influencing only one (Accuracy) of the dice rolls and ignoring the other (Damage)

>Dice
Having different weapons use different dice / modifiers to Hit is fine. An anti-material rifle doing a D12 while a pistol rolls a D6 is nice and evocative.

>>88751771
>If we are still in the process of just proposing things and not settled on anything I would suggest picrell as a To Hit/Save Process.
You know what? If we just go for a single "Hit" roll vs defenses, and use a table to reference
We could absolutely have specifics for different limbs. Its maybe somewhat combersome, but its very simple to stick modifiers onto a table and poses good risk/reward.
"Do go for a rare headshot for a Mortal Wound chance? Do I just aim center of mass for reliable damage? Well shit, I'm in a bad situation, I really have to turn this around. Headshot it is!" type stuff.

>>88751813
>Maybe, depending on what kind of damage things like explosives and artillery do. It's reasonable for them to outright kill you, but also not impossible to survive.
Are we good with a "Worse than Critical" type of Wound that outright kills something?
Mortal Wound or whatever, only appearing when circumstances are like
>You've been knocked prone
>They've spent several buffs for this one shot
>They're aiming at your head
>You have no cover
>Their roll result is high.

>>88751813
>Maybe, depending on what kind of damage things like explosives and artillery do
Target a hex.
Roll 1d8 or 1d10 or whatever for drift. High rolls = on target. 1 through 6 = the hex it lands on moves directionally based on result, then roll again to see if it drifts more.

Direct hit? They're fucking dead. Adjacent square? Roll wounds. Something like that.

>>88751827
So the more accurate the attack, the more damage is done? I think something in this vein was already in plans with damage bonuses based on Melee/Ranged values, and this system would achieve the same effect via increased possible degrees of success.

>>88751988
>So the more accurate the attack, the more damage is done?
Not exactly.
We'd just be assuming that the marksmen are good, that guns kill things, and the single "Hit" roll is just how bad a location that bullet hits.

Tying it to a "success margin" table for wound class fits that well. A bullet to the heart is pretty bad, a shot to the hand or shin not so much.

Like why even parse damage to its own roll? Its a damn bullet or a knife to the gut, the only question in regards to how much damage it does is what vital organs it passes through on the way in. The bullet doesn't chaotically change size and shape mid-flight.

>>88751771
>The number by which attacker succeeds determines hit location.
Yeah this is what I'm going for. Whether or not we use actual hit locations or just general damage tracking, I think a single Attack roll, with a boolean (Success or Fail) defence roll to lower incoming wound class if the attack Hits.

>>88751771
also I like the Health checkboxes being vertical. Very aesthetic, like a greek column.

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>>88751771
(cont.) picrel.

>>88752125
>BattleTech bubble wrap health
We did earlier decide to avoid this.

>>88752031
Well, I can certainly see the utility of this, given how it's a skirmish, not a party RPG.

>>88752166
Aye. Each player is controlling many units, a primary design goal should be to keep every interaction as fast as possible so more of the game time can be spent on tactical thinking instead of cumbersome rules navigation.

>>88752150
if I understood correctly for mooks its a single bar for leaders its locations.
This has the advantage that you can have leaders significantly outlast mooks and still loose a lot of effectiveness as they get slowly amputated to death.
Its literally not anymore work. The To hit roll gives you the armor location for the mooks and for characters it provides you the info where to track it as well.

>>88752150
It also goes back to >>88751854
because it opens up also the temptation of targeting a specific location that has already been hit, something more difficult but with higher reward.

>>88752216
>This has the advantage that you can have leaders significantly outlast mooks and still loose a lot of effectiveness as they get slowly amputated to death.
I don't know. I kind of prefer Leaders being either slightly more tanky or even less tanky than mooks in some cases. They ought to be protected.
Like a chess Queen. If you blunder it, there should be consequences.

>>88752241
>because it opens up also the temptation of targeting a specific location that has already been hit, something more difficult but with higher reward.
The question would be whether that tactical interest comes at the cost of bloating game complexity.
I'd say in this case, bubble wrap health is too complex even for only Leader units.
There's also the consistency issue. No in universe reason is present for Leaders to be walking meat monsters while mooks are regular mortals. The game's core systems should remain consistent across the battlefield.

I'm really not a big fan of localized damage. I feel like it's gonna slow down play and is too "RPG" for the scale of the game. It's fine if you play with troops you care about like Atlan, but if your fielding trash, rolling localization for all your 15 Morlocks is gonna be a pain in the ass.

>>88752125
>>88751771
For ex, lets say the Hospitalier swings at Lee-Dehr.
> Hospt. needs 3+ to hit, Lee-Derh needs 6+ to defend.
> Hospt rolls a 5 and Lee-Derh rolls a 7.
> Hospt hits at +1 threshold, thus hitting Lee-Dehr's closest arm.
> Lee-Dehr succeeded his to defend roll, , so his arm's armor save is 5+.
> Lee-Dehr rolls a 7, thus blocking the attack. Glory to Lee-Dehr!

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Maybe each Unit has its own wound threshold table, representing its "toughness" beyond Armour?

>>88752298
Read the fucking thread, I've said from the start its for Leaders/Characters only.
>>88752288
And honestly, no, tracking 4 locations with 2-6 boxes each for maybe 1/10 to 3/8 models really doesn't add up "complexity".

>>88752347
>tracking 4 locations with 2-6 boxes each for maybe 1/10 to 3/8 models really doesn't add up "complexity".
Everything adds complexity.
All complexity should be avoided, if possible, especially if it doesn't add anything specifically interesting to the gameplay interactions.
What advantages would hit locations have over wounds? Some risk/reward, but the ultimate terrain and positioning tactics, that is the core of the game itself, are literally identical either way.

>>88731512
Id love to see health and strength be joined together - a unit of very squishy soldiers shouldn't *really* do much damage in melee without special weaponry to justify it

>>88752409
>Id love to see health and strength be joined together
Fitness?

>>88752409
>>88752416
If that is done, also reasonable to use CURRENT health to calc Melee attacks. Injured people can't punch good.

>>88752362
>All complexity should be avoided, if possible, especially if it doesn't add anything specifically interesting to the gameplay interactions.
I'm the first one who mentioned this in these threads. I'm also the first one who pointed out digging up the whole board was a really fucking stupid idea. I'm fully aware of this, as well as the need to physically see what happens instead of just thinking about the axioms being resolved.
>What advantages would hit locations have over wounds?
It integrates wound effects, arm saves determination and hit checks, and it add granularity to targets in the sense that you can have characters last throughout a campaign and still lose effectiveness, and on the opposite side, it opens up the possibility of a gameplay mechanic inverting this, where a model can more easily than others target a specific location, thus playing the role of assassins.

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>>88752362
>What advantages would hit locations have over wounds?
Plus, if there's an amputation mechanic, who wouldn't want the chance to finish a campaign with a single remaining character with no legs and no arms?

>>88752362
>Some risk/reward, but the ultimate terrain and positioning tactics, that is the core of the game itself, are literally identical either way.
No they are not.
This specifically makes use or requries one to make use of positioning as the likeliest result is to hit the closest arm. With locations done this way, there is additional requirement put on location to maximize attacks taking out a location.
An additional advantage is that this way you can dispense with *critical hit* mechanics, since the headshot represents those. There's a difference here with BT in that the location hit is skill roll/position dependent and not position/randomness dependent, meaning that there is more consistency between roll and result (meaning you don't roll just barely on your to hit and then score a headcap like you do in BT).

>>88752664
>there is additional requirement put on location to maximize attacks taking out a location.
*put on positioning*, sorry, wasnt clear otherwise.

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>>88748669
no, I was just quite busy today
>>88727682
love the new lore doc update
>if Austria had defeated Prussia due to Agarthan wealth wouldn't it be logical for them to have an entrance on their home soil and not the one from Italy?
It would be logical for them to find an entrance maybe somewhere that's hard to access (like Tatra Mountains or somewhere else in Carpathians) so the entrance was never found or was known by the very few before the XIX century

>>88753012
>It would be logical for them to find an entrance maybe somewhere that's hard to access
I think in general there's a LOT more entrances than are known about, either commonly or even by major powers of the surface or below. Spelunking in search of new tunnels, investigating local legends and mysterious disappearances, and that sort of thing; I imagine it would all be pretty lucrative in the event you can actually find something. Major powers probably have bounties on viable route discovery.

>>88753456
What would be the first campaign for the players to play?
>Unholy Crusade
>All the major powers send their own expeditions through the underworld to reach Husk control Palestine (Unholy Land) and take it for themselves
>The British want to control it because the rise of Husks made them stop their construction of Suez Canal
>The Ottomans want to regain their old territory and reunite with their Egyptian remnants
>Russia still prepares for a major conflict with the Ottomans but wants to use this opportunity to gain strategic territory
>France wants to be the one in control of Palestine and the Suez canal
>Italy after their defeat in Ethiopia sets eyes on a different land to potentially colonise

>>88753608
First campaign should be something simple and trivial. Like "race for the macguffin".

>>88753953
probably a quest for the wish-granting device, then

>>88754038
I'd go even smaller than that, or alternatively
>each player is given a clue as to the location of the macguffin, as well as an additional location that if captured will provide a second clue
>exploration may reveal more clues as well
>you need three to five clues, depending on game length preference

>>88754038
>>88754244
I personnaly don't care much for the wish-granting device. Feel idk, disapointing.

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I've been thinking about rough zones of influence for the underworld factions. Not counting the sky-people and the Auldest Alliance, do we really only have four of them?
>>88754276
Probably why it hasn't been that important since 2e.

>>88754313
>I've been thinking about rough zones of influence for the underworld factions. Not counting the sky-people and the Auldest Alliance, do we really only have four of them?
Looks reasonable to me.

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honestly guys, I think it should be a two game system. One should be squad based with expedition and quests that has smaller maps, meanwhile the larger one should be an entire layer and its geography as the setting and be represented by a map/board. Some of these rules feel like they could easily be simplified or made less complex if there was two games instead of trying everything in one. pic related would be the nations fighting in the lost land, meanwhile the squad based would use heroes and named characters with an economic system.

>>88755189
I think everyone agrees with you, the question is which one we're doing first. Development time is not infinite, and we can't do both at once. The skirmish mode is more manageable to design.

>>88754313
Would zones of influence necessarily correlate to areas on the surface? Since everyone's underground, they might be above or below each other and would come into conflict with anything directly above them.

So, scrapping damage rolls and keeping it to
>One roll to Hit
>Wound class is determined by degree of success
>Defensive checks to lower incoming wounds

Good?

>>88756516
I like it.

>>88756555
>trips of approval
praise Lee-Dehr, its decided!

>>88756516
How does armour factor into that then? Or would it be counted under defensive checks?

>>88756801
>How does armour factor into that then?
Assuming defenses are layered, it'd be

>Your Hit roll is against some passive defensive value
>Defensive check to lower incoming wounds are determined by some other 'active' defensive value
Armour would come into play at one of those points. Possibly as a second layer of pseudo-health. We're figuring things out, but we have the core damage system done now.

Also
WHO ARE THE HYPERBOREAN LEADERS?!

Also, offensive rolls settled, we have to hash out how Armour works on the defensive side now. We have a good picture of it, just need to decide the specifics of how it will function.

>>88754276
It's fine. I literally made that up on the spot to be purely a macguffin. It's straight out of STALKER.

>>88754313
desu I'd give Mu Hawaii.

Edited VERY basic description of the discussed damage system into the new rules doc in the "Dealing Damage" section. More development to come as we settle on actual numerical balance numbers.

>>88757336
Warfare extistentialist seems to be the main one.

>>88757851
>Existentialist
Sounds like a good leader title to me honestly.

what about... the Hyperborean Anti-Existentialist

>>88754313
Atlan is too fucking big, man, most of their shit in the Pacific should be Mu, that's literally where Mu was supposed to be. Lemuria should have a chunk of Australia.

>>88754313
aaand once again Atlan tards are becoming the tumor of the setting by wanking off their faction to death

>>88758132
>>88758137
I think its because Atlan is the easiest non-surface faction to grock and appeals the most to /tg/ tastes.

They are literally a nation of constantly dominating and enslaving, well chads for lack of a better descriptor coated in Heavy Titanium Armor, confident martial ambition and a smooth brain playstyle.

In comparison Mu is a weird anomaly, Lemiura is to foreign and eastern mysticism, and Alantas still while having decent conceptual basis is the least fleshed out of the underground nations and to my understanding lacks a solidified visual style and has anemic theming in comparison to the others.

If this project is finished and got transported back to early /tg/ there is a good chance that Baron Phosphorous could have become a minor fixture of board culture along the lines of say a commissar fucklaw

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>>88754313
That's how I would place it. Mu are extremely ancient, so I think it's fine for them to be big. And if you wanted Mu to extend to New York for their proposed attack, well, consider that they don't HAVE to operate solely in their rough sphere.

>>88757851
He based himself on surfacer literature dude.

>>88758464
honestly I wouldn't mind Mu, Lemuria and Atlan all having some claim to areas of Australia.
Could turn that place into a hell-pit of deep-empire warfare bubbling up to the surface.

>>88758464
I knew Western Australian separatism was a Lemurian plot!

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>>88758577
>Ned Kelly fits the timeline

>>88758232
>If this project is finished and got transported back to early /tg/ there is a good chance that Baron Phosphorous could have become a minor fixture of board culture along the lines of say a commissar fucklaw
as the anon who wrote His Radiance, that makes me kinda proud.

>>88758590
>as the anon who wrote His Radiance, that makes me kinda proud.
BY THE GLORY OF ATLAN!
THE TITANIUM WALL SHALL STAND!

>>88758232
>and has anemic theming in comparison to the others.
I don't know, the Combat Chemist/Psycho-Socialite retro-futurist chemical madness is an interesting thing to go off of.

>>88758928
Yeah, they should have some sort of schizo-tech bent using faux Leonardian insane inventions based on Agarthan anomalies and alchemy, so kinda like the French but much more retro.

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>>88758464
By the way, there were some meme theories in early XX century about West Africans like Yoruba having Atlantean influences because "no way they made all those pretty sculptures!!1", could be an interesting lore angle.

>>88759052
.... now that you mention it, those Yoruba statues are awful nice...
curious...

>>88758588
>Ned Kelly the Chariot King of the Outback

>>88759100
Or would it be the Bush? I'm not well-versed in RL Australian lore.

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>>88758464
Moai are pretty clearly either Atlans or inspired by the Atlan Titan cult.

>>88759011
So a Renaissance futuristic aesthetic? I can dig that, fits in with the Renaissance being a rediscovery of Greek texts, except these guys have been doing it since they went underground.

>>88759116
Outback is the desert that covers 80% of the country, the Bush is the little bits of green that surround the coast. Kelly was a bushranger, but it's not that big a stretch to imagine he raided a Lemurian outpost and started a cross country mad max spree a century early.

Bump, I want to add the attack sequence to the doc, tell me if I've gotten everything right:
>Roll to hit
>Attackers Target is: 6 - Melee/Ranged Skill - Weapon Bonus
>Defender rolls
>Defender Target is 6 - Skill
>If Attacker fails - End sequnce
>If Attacker succeeds - Continue
>Determine location
>Hit location is: Attacker Roll - Attacker Target + (Attacker Roll - Defender Roll can be a negative or a postive number)
>If Defender failed - worsen location armor by: Attacker Strength + Weapon Penetration
>If Defender succeeded - Continue
>Defender Rolls location armor
>If Defender Succeeds - End sequence
>If Defender Fails - Take Wounds?, severity is: Attacker Roll - Attacker Target

One thing I'm confused about is if you always take a single wound or are we keeping the damage roll for that?

>>88758132
>>88758137
>>88758232
The real answer is because I did Atlan first and didn’t bother going back to fix it when I realized how little space I had left.
>>88758464
Of course I just had to half-ass the job and someone else would come along to do it better. All according to keikaku.

>>88760801
Are we scrapping location hits?
Seems to have both advantages and disadvantages, but I'm not sure about it honestly.

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Quick update for the map with the "Australian hellscape" included. Three factions with influence on that one island, Ned's gonna have his hands full.

I'm assuming this is something like a map of vague "Force projection capability" and not an actual territorial map.

>>88763917
>scrapping location hits
Huh? They're still there, after the
>If Attacker succeeds - Continue
step

>>88764084
Yes, that's more of a sphere of influence that controled territory, surface is still ruled by surfacer (except that mess in middle-east of course).

>>88764152
That document is still tentative as we settle on things. I feel like scrapping hit locations is fine, just not sure if we've settled on it yet.

I am on the side of "Extremely clean, fast and simple mechanics so we can put all the gameplay focus on tactics and interesting macro gameplay"
That is, fewer dice rolls, faster resolution of damage, focus on use of abilities and movement and risk/reward gameplay rather than random chance.

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Just for fun, I tried to envision the 3rd layer based on stuff in the doc. It's based on the surface map, so New Kirkwall is supposed to be roughly below Iceland, Satsuma roughly below Kyushu etc. New Kirkwall is something I made up, Kitezh is from a Russian legend about a sinking city, Ezana is the first Christian king of Axum, Franklin was suggested as a name for an American colony in the thread. I also figured, since they are arch-enemies and Stromboli goes straight to the 4th Layer, so must the entrance in the Pyrenees. On this layer they are within solid rock. Also I figured since Atlan is just one layer below, they could have a colony higher and both Mu and Atlan should have more territories than Colonials since they likely got here first. I also wanted to make Neo-Tethys a kind of inner sea in the heart of the map.

>>88764771
Fuckin' sick, though this is a little chaotic. Hard to tell where major masses are, might be helpful to do a quick update to better define shapes and borders.

>>88764771
Sick anon. On the subject of territories, I don't think the territories of England/America/Russia should be as close in size to the French ones. Remember, a whole section of France fell underground, so as far as the third layer go, they are probably the colonials with the largest territory (and most developed) at the cost of not being as present as other in further layer, as they had to prioritize securing this mess and could not put as much effort in delving.
I think that was one of the first difference between French and British actually, French have better ground in upper layer but British delved deeped than anyone else.

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>>88764847
This any better?

>>88765320
For sure. I was thinking more unifying some of the "rock" formations to define masses better and have less broken up areas.
Still, great shit.

>>88764771
>>88765320
>Sky-People Pillar City
Is
Is that Iram of the Pillars

>>88752431
Exactly
Thats what I intended

>>88765320
Beautiful.

>>88765585
Sounds good to me.
So, max health - Major Wounds or higher? Assuming a minor wound / scratch won't count toward it.

>>88765320
Instead of labelling them "ENTRANCE" you could just have a legend that lists what each symbol is, and use a simple symbol, for the entrances.
Would be cleaner.

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And very valid point on the territory size.

>>88765669
Noice.
Iapetus is the jungle territory, correct ?

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>>88765801
Yes.
>>88765479
Pillar as in stalactite and stalagmite meeting, but it's a cool accidental reference for sure.

I don't want to spam, so if anyone wants to improve on this they can do so on their own volition.

Considering recent additions (Sick stuff mate) and that we have a good baseline for how Attacks and damage work, I propose the next thread be dedicated to MAPPING. Layouts of the underground, etc.
Possibly also refining how the actual terrain will work.

>Roll to HIT
Weapon dice plus ability bonuses VS. Target Evasion (Usually 0 or 1, except on specifically evasive units) plus bonuses from Cover, Terrain etc.

>DAMAGE
Incoming Wound type is determined by Hit degree of success. Basically, subtract Evasion from Hit roll and get result:
>Result = 0 or less
No Wound.
>1 to 3
Scratch
>4 or 5
Wound
>6+
Critical

>ARMOUR
This is the contentious part. Here's my take.

>Roll under Armour spent
Upon an incoming Wound being taken, you can spend Armour points. If you roll UNDER OR EQUAL TO the amount of Armour spent (Modifiers for weapon Penetration?) on whatever Dice type we decide to use for Armour checks (Stronger Armour has smaller dice?) then the Hit is negated.

So, you have 8 Armour. Woah, Grievous Wound incoming! Spend 6 points to guarantee success on a D6, or maybe 4 points to have a good chance.
Or don't spend any at all, and wait for potentially lethal hits later?

>>88767140
Another option would be to spend Armour to simply reduce the severity of an incoming Wound by one class.
I think that's less interesting and way less tense though, but its an option.

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>>88753012
I second this
>>88736683
It was added in the first rules doc at the end it Im thinking of the right thing but it wasnt expanded upon. I also agree with others that we should focus on other things first.
>>88753012
I really hate the idea of Austria sctually winnins something. Just keep in the same as in out timeline. They would be even more desperate. End the when they wind their way underground they will see that as the exit out of their situation and peruse it.
>>88755549
We certanly can do both at once, but its better that we dont. At least we have a basic idea, will expand on it later.
>>88760801
>>88763917
Nah m8 fuck this. Scrap it. it will low down the gameplay so much. The first Anon had the right idea. Simple roll under. Like are you retarded? Thats a 13 step proses for a single attack. It should be much simpler.
>Roll under or equal to ranged/melee stat+mods to hit
>Defender Rolls Armor save
>Needs to roll under or equal to his Armor Stat - Attackers Weapons Penetration
>If he succeeds he takes no damage. If he fails he takes 1 wound (maybe more depending on a weapon)
>>88764771
Amazing work
>>88767140
Guys thats like stupid complicated. It borders on HW40k levels of retarded rules. Just to remind you, WH40k isnt a good table top game

>>88767958
>Guys thats like stupid complicated.
its literally two steps. What is complicated about that?

>>88760801
>One thing I'm confused about is if you always take a single wound or are we keeping the damage roll for that?
There are options for this, it could either be Attacker's Strength straight up, or a number based on the weapon. It was the one thing I was unclear about how to do. I don't really see a reason to do one or the other.
>>88767958
>it will low down the gameplay so much.
Try it. I have. After two tries its exactly as quick as a warhammer attack resolution. The only thing to keep in mind the location track which is 0-1/2-3/4-5/6+. That's it.
>>88767958
>Guys thats like stupid complicated
I'm sorry I don't want to be mean but its really not. Its a face-to-face roll with the failure/success ratios factored in over two steps. The third is a basic save. That's it.

>>88767958
>Roll under or equal to ranged/melee stat+mods to hit
>Defender Rolls Armor save
>Needs to roll under or equal to his Armor Stat - Attackers Weapons Penetration
why are you proposing something that two replies later you call stupid complicated?

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>>88767958
>I really hate the idea of Austria sctually winnins something
>Zey kan't win, Hans, we've got die Dreyze needle-gunz and zey are still uzing die Vorderladern!
>What they didn't know is that those were Titanium Springguns

>>88768201
Pretty much the only thing he changed was roll under and remove the failure/success ratio. I don't think he understands what "complexity" means.

>>88768190
>its exactly as quick as a warhammer attack resolution.
I think that is what anon is afraid of?
>>88768513
I fail to see the struggle here. We already agreed on roll under and d10s. Idk why you two are reinventing something that is already agreed upon.

>>88768767
>We already agreed on roll under and d10s. Idk why you two are reinventing something that is already agreed upon.
I see literally only one person (you) who has agreed upon this in the entire thread.

>>88768785
Did you even read the fucking document? What are you talking about?

>>88768877
You mean the placeholder document full of placeholders that will all be changed when we settle things in these threads?
The document full of placeholder ideas that are intended to be refined and are not at all the actual mechanics we are moving forward with?
That document?

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>>88768903
Its not a placeholder document. Its the Rules document. And some rules need to be agree upon before new rules can be added. Its quite clear which are which in the document. We are here, in the thread, to discuss and create. If you don't like it feel free to suggest a change.

>>88767958
>I really hate the idea of Austria sctually winnins something.
so we can have pagan Italians, undead Ottomans and underground Napoleon but Austria being competent for once is where it crosses the line for you

>>88768996
>Yellow text - rules that are currently being changed, not ready for a playtest
>Red text - rules that either don’t exist or are in a very barebones state

>Literally everything in the doc is either red or yellow text.
Yep. Uh huh.

The consensus on damage as far as everyone agrees is roll-over target, degree of success translates to Wound severity, defensive check to lower incoming wound severity.

>>88764084
Aboriginal chiefs when they get approached by three different emissaries of three different gigantic underground empires to cuck the australian government

>>88769282
GOOD DAY, LEMURIANS
LET ME PLAY YOU THE SONG OF MY PEOPLE
>immediately gets slaughtered
https://youtu.be/_tOkb1y7hEs

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>>88758232
Atlantis creator anon here, I made Atlantis with the intention they'd be the light of civilization amidst the nightmare that is the lost land. They're meant to be the hopebright do-gooders of the setting with people rooting for them purely because they're outnumbered morally. A spiritual Byzantium, when Byzantium has already fallen and Greece is under turkish occupation above ground. They are the tree of Athens, the fire of Aeneas.

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>>88769282
the three empires upon finding out the subhuman tribes that caused massive forest fires that destroyed Australia's fauna millions of years ago are somehow still alive:

>>88770338
That sounds works out. Really looking back on it my other big issue was that the tone between the Akritai, Alchemist, and Promethean jacks while quality themselves felt kinda out of place but upon reviewing them for this post I changed my mind and upon closer inspection they look fine.

>>88770338
Are you comfortable with some Icarus-style "too close to the sun" retro-future chemtech causing psycho-freak warriors mixed in?

Unit anon here, finally got around to resuming Atlantis and I am going a bit off the cuff with the Promethean's tools, as the original post was very vague. If anyone cares to I'd appreciate feedback on the leading image I have for the unit, which is veterans who are born of families of the same men who were engineers and inventors in Atlantis before the fall. Like guarded heirlooms, schematics and individual gizmos are handed down from father to son (or daughter? how egalitarian is atlantis) after they devote their fullest to the Akritai and retire, inheriting the title and tools of a Promethean. as a result they will bring some enigmatic and fantastical equipment to bare.

that is my current interpretation of them and the basis I am making their loadout options due to a lack of stated weapon

>>88766134
Kino. But where is Belgium?

>>88770805
Dead. Thank God.

>>88770805
I imagine Leopoldville

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>>88770640
My intention with the prometheans was that they were military veterans paired with combat engineers to handle experimental gear, and that's why the greek fire recipe was "lost" for most of the coming years. they're just flamethrowers with firebombs.

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>>88770961
Greek Fire wasn't "lost".
It was sealed.

New thread? Or wait for the burgers in the morning?

>>88770805
Leopoldville is Leopold's micro-colony (actually somewhat coordinates-wise close to surface Congo too funnily enough) made up of his followers, many of them Belgian survivors. Belgium itslef is kaput.

>>88769000
To be fair, it IS arguably the most unrealistic of the three.

>>88771118
ohhhh I like this! Can we make it exclusive? I dont like the idea of Colonial using flamethrowers.

>>88772620
Yeah, I think that was supposed to be the Atlanteans' edge. They've got napalm and gas attack way ahead of schedule.

>>88772677
Yeah they are the shining beacon of hope in a hopeless land. The only reason they still exists because of that edge. Or something like that idk, Im not the writer

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>>88753012
How about they "discover" a new 3rd layer entrance in Transylvania or Tatras when they become a full faction? That can also lead to potential falling out between them and the Sicilians, as they no longer need each other. Then territorial disputes reignite and skirmishes start. For now we can stick to the original Sicilian concept as the Underworld travel moguls.

>>88772998
I think we should just follow history as is and then have them "discover" an entrance in Transylvania. Just scrap the entire Italy thing.

>>88773017
Fair, there are multiple options we can take. Carbonari Volcano Pagans could just never make ay deals with Austria and actualy unite Italy, then proceed to let the Austrians use the entrance because business is business.

>>88773017
The entire Italy thing is the fondaiton to the Italian lore, aka them having a monopoly over Agarthan travel for Central Europe.

>>88772745
>shining beacon of hope in a hopeless land
>Gasses and wiley pete's all their enemies

>>88773187
Nobody's perfect.

>>88773187
Dum phosgenem spiro, spero.

>>88773085
Yeah and if they want to let Austrians, their enemy use it, the Austrians are going to pay a hefty sum of gold. After they realis what riches lay in the underground and that they cant just keep paying the Italians they start searching on their own land, and eventually they find an entrance.

WHO MAKE NEW THREAD?!

THE NEW ONE
>>88778228