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>TL;DR Doc (WIP) This needs a bit more fleshing out
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LxdaGoBlJRTMuziMDupG5TeeFwNDnsIW2pfaRAcFDgA
> Lore Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bRrxdD1BMLmcMDFeszwqg2Rcjrt8DDo7tjAxoOB6KQ8
> Rules Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/14ZpHhEyUbjt-SCx2xuAd0lyh7Rs4J7rK5kHkljqykhk/
> Unit Spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rcleQtrT4Q0INiBW50-kq2ZXWJ-cjLOeVTLTJg_oX5E

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We have a few drafts done for managing combat. As those drafts settle and resolve into the final system, we're moving on to solidifying how AP / Movement / Turn order works.

Noting that we already have a good layout for that, not much work is needed here so moving onto Abilities for both common units and Leaders is an option too.

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I'm going to say it. I liked the idea of the Danubian Empire better. So what if it was wacky? This isn't a 1:1 historical simulation, and it shouldn't be. The surface is allowed to go a bit off kilter.

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So is hyperboles some sort of spiritual coalescence of all the suffering and bloodshed done in the name humanities need for their own Hyperborea? That unreachable and unattainable kingdom of perfection that lies in the heart of every mind, heart and culture? Echoes of atrocities long past but not forgotten…

>>88870562
You mean MORE off-kilter than volcano pagans and the Necropolis of Istanbul?

>>88870672
>So is hyperboles some sort of spiritual coalescence of all the suffering and bloodshed done in the name humanities need for their own Hyperborea? That unreachable and unattainable kingdom of perfection that lies in the heart of every mind, heart and culture? Echoes of atrocities long past but not forgotten…
Yes, but worse.

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>>88870705
Oh.

Oh god that’s not good at all.

>>88870812
Just be thankful that Hyperboreans crossed the Sacred Atlan Wall.
The Titanium King hates them as much as they hate us.

>>88870812
My personal theory is that Hyperborea is in the process of being shaped by human belief about the future.
And brother, there's a whole lot of blood waiting to be spilled.
AND A WHOLE LOT OF SKIN TO BE TAKEN

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>>88870705
The 'Loop Theory' is a popular one for Hyperboreans. It seems that going beyond the firmament disconnects you from logic, sense, and sanity to the point of becoming inhuman. Hyperboreans exist for violence, they live and breathe suffering. It's their baseline. You know how your brain makes enough chemicals to simulate a cocaine high when you're in a fight?
That's them. All the time. Getting tweaked off the mere idea of suffering because it's all you have left once you go that far out.

The horror isn't what lies beyond the firmament. The horrors are what the firmament makes you into. Look at Cromwell

ABILITY PROPOSALS

>Skeletal
Flip a Coin when a Wound is incoming. On success, negate that Wound. Negates only 1 Wound per game, but triggers any number of times until a Wound is negated.

>Titanium
Same as above, but for damage to Armour.

>Pain Dance (Hyperborea maybe?)
Erase a Wound from this Unit. Transfer a Wound of identical severity to any friendly Unit.

>>88871063
The real horror is that Hyperborea is humanity's future and there's no avoiding it. Unless Napoleon finds an end to the cycle...

>>88871176
>Unless Napoleon finds an end to the cycle...
funny
because we're putting a lot of effort into stopping him

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>>88871227
The fools of the surface are only trying to stop him because they fail to understand his grand plan for mankind.
Auldest Alliance bros, however, know the truth.

>>88871063
Build the loop into the game itself. Everything is happening, has happened, will happen, so any army with any leader can fight any where you want, as often as you want, because it's just another loop. So what if you have two Napoleons fighting each other, it's just something that happened in that particular timeline.

I think just having Movement cost AP like all other actions is perfectly fine honestly.

>>88871640
I am fine with this.
Also, to the anon who suggested having two profiles, one for footsoldiers and one for their mounted equivalent last thread, I think horses (and other mounts) should just be purchasable equipment, and not necessarily change the profile significantly.

Petition to have the Units point costs we use for purchasing units and equipment be "Silver"

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>>88871079
I really like the wound transference mechanic. Since Hyperboreons enjoy pain, perhaps it should play a risk/reward system where they gain buffs the more wounds they receive?

>>88872023
>Since Hyperboreons enjoy pain, perhaps it should play a risk/reward system where they gain buffs the more wounds they receive?
Or, perhaps also, a Kamikaze mechanic that inflicts more damage based on how many Wounds the activating Unit currently had. Big risk to exploit, big reward if you succeed.

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>>88872062
A riotous cacophony of screams and color! I like it!

>>88872123
>Amazing Stories being posted
lmao I collect this exact magazine and have like 60 issues of it
These threads are fucking magical, I swear.
ice city of the gorgon is the best issue btw

>>88872023
>>88872062
Whatever mechanics we give Hyperboreans, they should definitely have some mechanical way to collect skins from defeated enemies.

>>88872195
the worst part is, when they collect your skin you're still alive
and they keep you alive after
and you can still feel through it

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>>88872414
I JUST LOVE THE SMELL OF AGONY IN THE ALWAYS

>>88872471
WHAT'S THIS?!
IT SEEMS MORTALS CAN'T QUITE COMPREHEND THE MEANING OF ETERNITY!
LET US TEACH THEM.

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Made a proposal for the nature of the Malcolmite Rebellion in the Lore Doc. Here's the TL;DR
>Malcolm was the leader of a Highland Regiment that fought the Lemurian-backed Sepoy rebellion
>Came back to England and started preaching anti-protestant, anti-english rhetoric
>Whipped the Highlanders into an anti-government frenzy
>Quietly reveals to his closest followers that he's seen visions of "rainbow-clad warriors" descending from the heavens to scour the earth of all life, his efforts are largely to prevent that from happening
>Gets arrested by the English in an attempt to stop the rebellion before it started, immediately busted loose by his followers
>May or may not be related to the House of Stuart, declared King of Scotland by the rebels
>Rebellion starts in earnest, Malcolm becomes something of a folk-hero and a French novelist writes a book starring him
>Papacy is quietly backing him for a bit due to him being catholic, but support quickly dries up
>Malcolm seems to have foreknowledge of where the English forces will be, but this isn't enough to keep the rebellion going forever
>His personal forces get wiped out trying to raid English supplies, he disappears
>Rebellion quickly dies out, survivors either flee to the mainland and become mercenaries
>Or they get press-ganged into forming the Black Watch in exchange for not getting hanged
>Black Watch is routinely deployed in Agartha, it's basically a suicide unit
>Rumors start that Malcolm is still alive and underground somewhere
>Still preaching about his Hyperborean doomsday
>Various dregs of the underworld unite under him as the Lost Men
>Lost Men start killing surfacers in an attempt to keep them from Digging Too Deep
Presumably some time after all that is when Napoleon and Malcolm have their epic sword-fight with Memory-Engine Cromwell for the fate of Mankind.

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>>88872588
>>Malcolm was the leader of a Highland Regiment that fought the Lemurian-backed Sepoy rebellion
the fuck is this setting

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>>88872920
That's just the tip of the iceberg, my friend.

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A leader of which Atlantis can be proud.
A visionary of commerce and alchemy.
I'd want no other man to guide Atlantis into a new era of prosperity, in the wake of the Outlanders and their invasions.

sorry this one took a while
spent some of my free time for art in the drawthread

>>88870562
I alos liked stronk Austria, but stronk Austria wouldn't really be Danubian.
Stronk Austria-Hungary rising back from the ashes, however, would. So maybe they'll go Danubian in 5e.

>>88873464
Excellent work as always, drawfriend. Got any idea who's up next?

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>>88873567
Nope. Maybe Vrit or Nameless Khan.

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REJECT MODERNITY
EMBRACE GORG

>>88872588
I like it, integrating Malcolm with the overall history of the Scottish/Jacobite rebellions seems like a good idea.

>>88873574
Napoleon crying tears of blood is really cool. Still get me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7RHiyWHuV0

>>88873464
Right, who's idea was it to elect this literally who from Crete again? The buffoon actually bought into this "democracy" nonsense we've spun and ran with it!
Great work, as usual

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What is the true nature of the Lemurian prophecy? What made Ozymandias lead his people to those ruins? Who built them? Did the people who lived there know they would die out and be succeeded by a bunch of hole-headed larpers?

>>88874224
Maybe it was some sort of contingency plan by Old Lemurians to come back after whatever happened to them? Get some randoms to follow the Prophecy, laying the ground for whatever their plan was.

>>88870359
>What started as a simple political compass chart
Go ahead, post it.

>>88870869
>The War to End All Wars
>except it never ends

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>>88870869

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>>88870869
>Then all we need is a new hope for a better future.

Actually, what if the cycle was already supposed to end during the Titan-Hyperborean war and Atlas and his sacrifice have simply bought everyone some extra time? And humanity has squandered it by cracking the Firmament anyway.

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>>88873574
By the way, when you eventually get to Kipunada, consider using the Kushan/Yuezhi sculptures and portraits for inspiration. He was named after one of their kings.

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>>88874621

>>88874224
I like to think the Prophecy (the big one) was just an explanation for the layers and the loop that's been chinese whispered into a weird prophecy predicting the future when it's just describing what is and will happen on every other layer in existence.

>>88875121
attaboy

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>>88870359
TOOLS OF WAR!

>>88878086
The first number for melee and the second number for ranged is the skill bonus, right?
I like it overall. Blunt weapons dealing Grazes through the saves seems like a good idea to make them useful against armor outside of simply increasing their PEN. I'd also consider some alternative Backstab benefits depending on what we do with location damage. Like maybe the dice explode idk.

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>>88878086
it keeps to bare in mind that by the mid 1860s and early 1870s thihs like the dreyse needle gun and chassepot were standard and equivalents were being adopted everywhere.

>>88878086
I like it
>AP
This reminded me that we haven't decided on the activation system in previous thread, have we?
I like the one in the doc rn
> Activate model, get 2 AP, next player does the same

There was a suggestion for using an AP pool instead, but I'm not sold desu
You either have no limits on AP usage, which speeds up play, but leads to scenarios where a single model does all the work while the rest of the expedition twiddles their thumbs, which doesn't seem very adeventure novel-y
Or
You implement AP limits for models, at which point you have even more things to track:
> First system: place a token to denote if a model was activated or not
> AP Pool: each model has AP limit tokens, amount of which range from 2 to whatever the upper bound is

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>>88878086
And a rough start for a simple campaign mode that sticks a bit closer to what Necromunda/Mordheim players may be used to.

>>88878812
Yeah, if we really want to have some sort of resource to be tactically used, we can just have a separate pool of Leadership Points that let you issue Orders (and if we don't just use the AP transfer system we have). AP is better assigned to actual units, with 2 AP being the norm being some exceptions.

>>88878920
>barring some exceptions

>>88878876
damn, I really, really like this
Except the restriction bit, we can have campaigns where both surface and under-dwellers get to explore a newly discovered megacavern network

>>88879236
There is nothing to prevent players from agreeing to start from the bottom of the 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. Point is to not have to worry about linking up, you just play one battle-scenario against each other every "turn" then track the result, eventually once I figure out scoring I would expect Depth to be a huge figure into it (as well as Silver/Debt).
>>88878920
>>88878812
The advantage of a (somewhat balanced) pool is that it balances and limits the turn time for both players. Player A brings 5 model, even with the fact that they are elite troops/Characters, he's probably not going to have as much AP as Player B which brings 15 models. A bit of variation isn't much of an issue, it adds flavour and variety, but playing your turn in 5 minutes while the other takes 20 isn't fun.
The other advantage is that it forces strategic allocation. Say we design the AP pool to be a bit smaller than the upper scale warband, 10 AP to a max of 15 models. Then you won't be able to even move all those 15 models in a turn. AP allocation becomes a key gameplay component rather than just knowing you'll always be able to pull x AP from y numbers of models.

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Posting my considerations for handling combat to, so the thread has both of them for reference.

>>88878086
I think Sabre sword designs are more likely for the era of the setting, at least for surface-dwellers.

Also, we've sort of been floating around for the names of Wound severity so I'm going to make a proposal for their actual names, in order of severity:

>Scratch
>Cut
>Wound

>>88879590
I like this.
>>88879534
The weapon list will be greatly expanded.

>>88879236
I think Under-Dwellers would work similarly to the Surface Dwellers, with the only differences being they have a greater understanding of how the Underground works but suffer Deep Drunk penalties when they try to explore upper levels than their starting points. Thus they get stuck in the worst of the Underground sooner, while the Surface Dwellers can gather resources in safer levels.

>>88874775
... technically, that's mission accomplished, right?

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Impressive.

With this most recent achievement, fate has in a single stroke, marked the decline of the west and spelled a new era of wondrous prosperity and peaceful global dominance for the Hyperborean mammoth, which promises to firmly stand in sharp contrast to the historically bloody ascent of western powers and the cruel subjugation it brought to the humbler nations of the world. With the blessings of Thulean quantum direct-current electricity, vril aircraft carriers and vril enhanced railguns will be the instruments with which Hyperborea affirms its noble stewardship of 21st century world politics and offers the non-western world a different option; an skinned alternative to the depredations of Western leadership and the opportunity for a more equitable and dignified multilateralism.

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So are we going to have a “starter set” of two factions for play testing? (Of course once we get the rules for units in a workable place) I’d be happy to hold a session with my bud this coming weekend; even got spare stands and card stock to make minis.

>>88880760
Yes and the factions that are generally considered as "Starter" factions would be
>Britain
>France
>Atlantis
>Atlan
I think Britain vs Atlantis would be great, though Atlan has more marketable appeal what with their throbbing titanium cocks and invincible attitude.

>>88880814
What is the different between Atlantis and Atlan? Wouldn't it be better to rename Atlan to Atzlan or smth.

>>88880902
>What is the different between Atlantis and Atlan?
All of it.

>>88880918
I mean, why do they have so similiar names?

>>88880959
Similar origins. Atlan is a splinter faction descending from ancient Atlantis, ruled by an insane warhawk monarchy that worships the mythical metal known as Titanium.

Atlantis is a long-surviving enlightened democracy that wants nothing to do with their historic relatives.

>>88880981
Ah, makes sense
>ruled by an insane warhawk monarchy that worships the mythical metal known as Titanium.
Sounds pretty fucking cool. Although I am still more of a Mu kind of guy.

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>>88880814
Good to know! Shame I’ll have to wait on my Gorg Warband a little longer.

>>88871897
I agree. Unless we view infantry and cavalry as seperate categories with unique rules for each, getting a mount is more like a buff for the unit rather than any fundimental change.

Anyone have the Conrad Beauchamp story from a few threads back?

>>88880902
>"What's the difference between the English and Germans? They're basically the same."

>>88879590
I like Graze->Wound->Critical or something like Light->Medium->Grievous/Grave/Severe, because it doesn't specify damage type. Scratches and Cuts imply cutting/slashing damage. It's a minor nitpick, but still.

>>88881503
It might be a good time to define the factions a bit more in terms of gameplay aims. Stuff like

> Faction
> [bad/medium/great] Leaders
> [bad/medium/great] Characters
> [bad/medium/great] Mooks
> Gimmick

so like


> France
> Bad Leaders
> Great Characters
> Medium Mooks
> Very large pool of Characters to choose from allow to customize your warband to fit the needs. Lots of Climbing Gear equipment.

>>88881503
They seem more like Athenians and Spartans to me.

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>>88880902
>Why do you wage war?

>Atlantis: “We fight because we must. If there is to be peace and prosperity in our peoples future, we must struggle to protect it.”

>Atlan: “BECAUSE IT MAKES MY DICK ROCK HARD.”

>>88881925
>"AND THE WALL! THEY'VE CROSSED IT AGAIN!"

>>88881925
>>88881966
>British Expeditionary Corps Rules of Engagement
>Rule No.1: Do not cross the Sacred Atlan Wall
>Rule No. 2: If you suspect you might be near the Sacred Atlan Wall, turn around.

>>88871063
Pain Priests also experience that same thing, but with 1000 times the sensitivity. Haven’t decided whether that’s through drugs or a natural gift, but their sensitivity leads to their worship amongst Hyperwarriors.

>>88881053
Atlan: Come for the warmongering, stay for His Radiance.

>>88882105
>turn around
AND CROSS IT AGAIN??

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>>88882314
>AND CROSS IT AGAIN??
its better than being on the wrong side when they find out you crossed it once

What faction do I play to run Neanderthals, Ape people, and of course, G O R G S.

>>88882879
Atlan if you want them as slaves
British if you want them as mercs

>>88882879
Oh, or Napoleon if you want them as recruited knights of unholy salvation

>>88882879
Currently they are under "Other Denizens of the Deep", they haven't been given their own faction, it might work out that Lee-Dehr is a Mercenary Leader that allows you to take Gorgs as standard troops.

>>88881456
It's in the lore doc under recommended reading.

>>88882879
Africa.

>>88882879
Sky People have Gorg units and Neanderthal mercs give Mu a discount.

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>>88871176
>You wish for an End, yet you reject it as it stares you right in the face! The Little Emperor wants to play by the very rules designed to deny him victory. Fight fire with fire, have the serpent's tail eat the head instead, escape one cage by making another. No, child, if you truly wish to break the cycle, you must reach Beyond.

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>>88883170
>Bold of you to assume there are rules in war.
>Bolder still, to think I would follow them.
>An Emperor does not follow, he decrees.
>Every man shall be a king. Every king shall be a deity.

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>>88883170
>>88883505
>Oi Gog, check it out, deys fightin again, just like boss Ozzy said
>I put two rations on da short one.

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>>88883624

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>>88882889
>>88882905
>>88882933
Looks like I’m going Brits then!

>”Oh, you want to know about Hruk and his lot? Nice chaps really, can tear a Lemurian in half with their bare hands, if you work them up enough. Play a stonkin’ good game of Footie as well!”

>>88883170
>>88883505
Them fucking sounds less and less like a fan theory.

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So the loop is a circle, right?
Napoleon wants to break the circle. Turn it into a line. This line would extend forever, with time and space unfolding themselves indefinitely. Humanity will grow to control it's fate and reach its full potential, becoming as Gods. Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite on a fundamental level. The man who crowned himself emperor was in the end the most loyal servant of the Revolution.
Old Mu serve an entity from beyond the circle, from the empty space around it. To someone from the circle nothing exists outside of it. To the Khan and Mommy, however, nothing EXISTS outside of it. And whatever this "existence" may be, they seem to find it preferable to either the circle or the line. Both are extremely limiting compared to the boundless Void and who's to say the circle even CAN become a line? They want to erase the circle or maybe collapse it into a single point. It probably also involves merging with whatever entity Star Ancestor is a fragment of.
Napoleon's goal is ambitious and not sure to work in theory and in practice, but it is profoundly human. Mu's goal is probably more likely in theory, they just need to put the actual work in, but it is entirely alien.

>>88884073
>So the loop is a circle, right?
No I believe it is a line proper (not a ray or segment), just depicted as a circle. Where its non-ends meet at infinity is where the 'loop' completes.
Basically its incomprehensible so we just draw a circle.

>>88884083
Then I guess Napoleon wants it to diverge into a separate ray?

>>88884073
The explanation I'm fond of (and which I need to add to the lore doc in full) is that the entire thing is an elaborate loop/cycle. Each layer is not only a different location, it is a different time, which will lead to the following layer/time period. If you go up you travel forward in time, if you go down you travel backwards. Hyperborea is the current endpoint of humanity, after thousands upon thousands of years of technological development and warfare, and when it reaches that peak it will destroy itself and humanity will degenerate into Lemurs, who will eventually evolve into the Lemurian civilisation, the evil that is Old Mu (whence comes our ideas of the gods and their pantheons), proto-mythological-humans in Atlantis, and then the modern day humans of the setting. The question then raised is what is Napoleon doing by going back to the deepest/earliest primordial layer, and has he already broken or bent things by sinking St Helena and catalysing the scramble for Agartha?

>>88884128
We don't know what Napoleon wants.
He knows something that we don't know.
And we don't know what happens if he succeeds.

>>88884155
>The question then raised is what is Napoleon doing by going back to the deepest/earliest primordial layer
If that's where it loops into the Firmament, that would be the place to hijack the timeline/layer somehow and hijack it into a non-Hyperborean future maybe? Maybe that's where the framework holding everything together is the weakest, allowing for reality manipulation (hence the Wish Granter). Napoleon would use it to reshape the world to his liking, Mu would push the boundaries further and have the whole thing collapse.

>>88884229
>Napoleon would use it to reshape the world to his liking
And probably somehow share it, so all men become deities.

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>>88884229
>The real war is Napoleon (rewrite) vs. the Star Ancestor (corrupt) vs. the tides of time (stability)
>Everyone else is just along for the ride
fugg

>>88882879
US if you want them as Roosevelt’s Retards

>>88884073
>>88884155
>>88884228
>>88884229
>Napoleon
Trying to redirect human history in order to prevent Hyperborea from ever coming to pass, retroactively, in the future
>Old Mu, Khan/Mother
Trying to erase reality entirely to replace it with the Nothing that exists beyond reality
>Atlantis
Just trying to hold out and make some kind of civilization in the midst of all this chaos
>Atlan
Settling ancient grudges, upholding the SAW, having a jolly good time fighting outlanders.
>Lemuria
Larpers serving the will of a truly ancient civilization by dressing up in that civilization's clothes and fulfilling their ancient prophecies; to what end, even Ozymandias surely does not know.
>Malcolm and the Lost Men
Trying to prevent Hyperborea from happening, but doesn't have all the pieces like Napoleon and La Ombre. Probably going to ally with Napoleon permanently in the End Times, but currently locked to frenemy status due to their mutual hatred of England, Hyperborea, and Cromwell.
>Hyperborea
EXULTING IN PAIN, FLENSING SKIN FROM SKINSLAVES ALL DAY LONG BABY!
>Cromwell
Has become a memory engine in human form, plotting to bring about THE NEXT AGE OF MORTAL PAIN largely out of his hatred of the Irish.
>Sky-People, Surfacers of all stripes
Largely unaware of this war for the fate of reality, concerned primarily with stately affairs and the petty wars of the 1860s-1880s
>Lemurs
hungry

Is that about everything?

>>88884294
>Holy Alliance vs Hyperborea box
No More Popery

>>88884294
>Trying to erase reality entirely to replace it with the Nothing that exists beyond reality
I see them more as artists, honestly. Cultivators of a new reality, TOTALLY unlike what we have now. Unrecognisable to mortals.

>>88884294
>La Ombre
i still can't believe this fucking type from 1e remains unchanged to this day

>>88884363
I'm so glad this fucking typo from 1e remains unchanged to this day.

>>88884294
>Grogs
Grog

>>88884294
Atlantis isn't, like, opposed to the idea of restoring their past glory and taking revenge at Hyperborea. They just don't feel like sacrificing everything to do it, like the Titking would have it. And he's at least parially full of shit, because he clearly enjoys war and tyranny for their own sakes, not just as means to an end.

>>88884363
It's fixed in 4e.

>>88884724
SOVLLESS

>>88884730
Seethe, chud.

>>88884619
Atlan is a more honest Atlantis

>>88884910
Atlan are a bunch of autists who decided to become a warband of spergs with no actual endgoal who'll eventually garner enough enemies that they'll most likely confederate at some point and wipe them out. Atlantis are just greeks with the unfortunate situation of being surrounded by a horde of mentally ill people posing as nations, dinosaurs and monsters.

>>88884910
Honestly? I get the sense that Perseus II is legit the best strategic leader in the entire setting.
He's the only leader that's actually careful with how to approach things. He probably knows Atlantis could give Atlan a run for its money in straight combat, but why would he?

Perseus is a quiet kind of chad. Why fight battle you could win through politic, when the results are the same either way?

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>>88884910
>What do you think is "noble" to do, Outlander?
>Is it noble to scheme and connive against my fellows in court?
>Is it noble to spend my days in luxury at the expense of the common man?
>Is it noble to reject reality in the name of exploring the grand mysteries?
>I say none of these things have any value.
>Out there, on the field of battle, there is no deceit. There are no lies.
>There are only men. For once in their miserable lives, they display their intent for one another openly.
>You know what everyone there wants. You know what you want.
>What is more noble and true than to make war?
>You come here, accusing me of being a monster.
>But I know what I am.
>What are you?

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>>88884949
>What are you?
The guy you've failed to invade the territory of 17 times.

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>>88884949
>Is it noble to spend my days in luxury at the expense of the common man?
My slaves are enlightened by my luxury! It is glorious to take excess!

>>88885009
Baron... Your candor is appreciated.
But please, slaves do not need enlightening.
You have earned your excess.
They have earned their status in life.

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>>88884949
>>88884979
>>88885009
>>88885053
It's all so very tiring.

honestly?
the bizarre weaves of fate, trying to break or bend or escape it, while others ignore it in favour of more immediate concerns, is pretty fuckin' kino

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>>88884949
>you sure talk lots of funny words, but proffies says I punch you now
>breaks your armor in a single hit

>>88884941
>>88884979
Man, if someone like Perseus was the king back before the Eternal War broke out and not one of those Epimethean retards, Atlans would've rejoined Atlantis as brothers and we wouldn't have to deal with this >>88884949 bullshit.

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>>88885097
truly this is a cultural victory moment.

>>88884155
>and has he already broken or bent things by sinking St Helena
I don't know if this was settled otherwise, but I thought Nappy found St Helena at the bottom of the Ninth.
It could be that the bottom of the Ninth is truly a prison for the most prideful of beings. In which case it would make sense it would take the form of St Helena for Napoleon, as it may be the only thing capable of breaking him. He wanted to go deeper still, so whatever lays beyond trapped him in the only place that could kill his spirit. Given how much occult power he has now he can probably escape momentarily.

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>>88885499
Napoleon could leave any time he chooses.
But that is not a choice he will ever make for himself.

>>88885595
Emperor of Under Europe, but no longer master of his own fate.

>>88885628
he might just be the only man, alive or dead, who IS master of his own fate
such strange times, we live in

>>88884155
>has he already broken or bent things by sinking St Helena and catalysing the scramble for Agartha?
I think there might be differences between the cycles as long as they end and begin at the same point. Not saying he DIDN'T break or bend things this time, but for all we know countless Napoleons might have failed before, and countless more may fail yet.

>>88870359
So, French have

> Troops
Troupe de Marine
> Good stats, Jungle terrain preference (?)
FFL, 2nd REP
> Shit survivability, Good melee with bayonet, bonus to Reload speed if enemy is within x (?)
Indigenous Rider
> Flintlock toting civilized savage riding a pterodactyl. Flying, shit range accuracy, Ptero is a beast.
Tiger Brigade
> Cab (???), stealth when dismounted, short range deadly guns.
Tireurs D'Elite Cavernes climbers (lol)
> Climbing gear, long range rifles. Maybe give them "Deep Strike" for 2d hex maps?
Garde Republicaine
> Pneumatic Stilts (???). Ignore cover, High armor
Bicycle Soldiers (LOL)
> cheap scouting unit, limited by rough terrain, dismounted units make bog standard troops. Once per game when mounted may react to an enemy moving closer by making a full move in the opposite direction, and discarding the bike for the rest of the game.
Dutch Vritjkorp
> Cheap, mediocre troops, forest/swamp terrain preference

> Characters
Commander Charles L.N.B.
> Bad melee stats, boost morale to French Soldiers (not figured out a morale system yet), "Makes French expeditions more tanky" (? flat boost to armor or does he allow French to buy better armor...?)

> Leader
Minister Eiffel
> Overcosted, Boost mechanized units (so Garde Republicaine only now), his attacks always damages armor, hates Mu (maybe Hatred is an ability?), gains debuff vs Atlan (maybe loses the "always damages armor ability?).

Then I assume some of the Misc Character models
> The Ambitious Scientist
> Eccentric Investor
> Treasure Hunter
> The Hiker
> Speleologist
> Heiress Explorer (?)
> Julius Verne (?)
> Returned Explorer
> Camp Cook

If there is a need to have a Leader each game we are going to come up with a lot more. Another option would be to have Characters that may be taken as Leaders or not, perhaps with a section for their "Command abilities & rules" which are just disregarded if they are not the Leader on the field.

>>88885595
A lonesome place, the underearth,
Where bold Napoleon dwells.
The Dark has claimed him
Amidst his raging
Against the worlds above.

He plots in silence amidst the ice
The cold primordial prison.
His vision blind to all but Night
And sunless skies and seas.

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>>88885718
This guy is an absolute fucking meme. If not a French unit, he'd make a good merc.
>be Crimean war veteran
>abandon your wife and son and sail to Peru
>get sentenced to death for arms dealing
>get bailed by the French consul
>buy land from the natives on Easter Island
>kidnap the wife of some local dude
>recruit some other locals as a personal army and start taking over the island
>proclaim your new island waifu the Queen and rule in her name
>try to turn the island into a giant sheep ranch
>kill or displace like 90% of local population
>get killed by angry natives after trying to kill the seamstress who made a dress your wife didn't like

>>88885957
>all that just to make a sheep ranch
HOLY BASED.

>>88885718
>Bicycle Soldiers
French mountain bikers cycling past angry neanderthals and hungry dinosaurs on their way to the Fourth level. I love it.

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>>88886046
>*ding ding!*
>On hon hon!
>*ding ding!*
>shoots your dinosaur
>rides away
>*ding ding!*
They used folding bicycles too so its reasonable that they'd have some kind of free, on-the-field cavalry-conversion ability.

>>88886060
>frogs on bicycles pedal into the 8th layer
>"ON HON HON!"
>several minutes pass
>"NOH NOH NO!"
>frogs on bicycles pedal out of the 8th layer, immediately followed by angry Lemurs on tricycles

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>>88886088

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>>88886954
holy fuck that's going in the 1e manual

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>>88886954
this is perfect
I'm actually wheezing

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>>88886088
>followed by angry Lemurs on tricycles
that would be neat circus act, no much of a threat

>>88886954
OH MON DIEU
LES MOURES
LES FAQUINS MOURES RIDENTS LES TRICICLETTAUOISX

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>>88886954
>>88887495
These threads just keep making fucking gold

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>>88887495
>LES MOURES
SACRE BLEU!

do gorgs ride bikes?

>>88885957
Based, but his name was Jean-Onésime, not Jean-Baptiste. You dont see many Onésime left outside of the Province of Québec nowadays (and even then it's an "grandfather's name"). A bit like Isabeau or Didyme.

>>88885718
For Brits we have

> Troops
British Army Private
> Average ranged soldier. ?Rerolls to musket attacks if there are other BAP next to him?
Zulu Auxiliary
> mobile screening force, no armor, shield is bad (haven't figured out rules for shields yet)
Tlingit Auxiliary
> Mobile medium armor melee troops.
South Pacific Auxiliary
> War Dance ability (provides more buff the more SPA are doing it), no armor stats, Jungle terrain preference
The Black Watch
> Elite skirmishers with goof melee stats, Mountain terrain preference, low armor.

> Warmachines
The Gunboat
> A heavily armed boat. Sadly naval scenarios are mostly unplayed. Crew stats are bad and vulnerable to boarding. Lots of cannons.
The Armoured Traction Engine
> Huge Landship. Slow af, high armor, cannot use cover, provides cover, but explodes when killed.

> Characters
Sargent Major
> Boosts BAPs. Boost morale close to him. Medium Melee skill.
Sir Conrad Beauchamp
> Explorer & Archeologist, poor stats, can steal another unit's special rule
The Neptunium Baron
> Bad melee stats, buffs auxiliaries.

Then I assume they can ally some of the Mercs

> Knights of Britannia
> Lady Guinevere of Cornwall

and some of the "neutral Characters"

> The Ambitious Scientist
> Dr. Hekyl/Mr. Jive
> Eccentric Investor
> Treasure Hunter
> Aeronaut Professor
> Analytical Engineer
> The Hiker
> Speleologist
> Heiress Explorer
> Julius Verne
> Returned Explorer
> Camp Cook
> Cave Merchant

We will once again need more Leaders.

>>88891241
For Atlantis we have

> Troops
Akritai
> Slow, good melee damage, good armor
Promethean
> Elite Akritai + engineering skills + alchemy, explosive specialists, bit less armor than regular Akritai as a result of mounting a chest canon.
Iconoclast
> Flamer. Shit melee stats. Exploses on crits.
Atlantean Sharpshooter
> Bad rifle quality, good accuracy. Suffers accuracy debuff upon getting damaged.
Olm Kataphraktoi
> Heavy Elite amphibious cavalry. Very heavy armor. Olm is a melee beast.
Atlantean Armorclad
> Elite melee infantry. Great armor. Damage buff when they have good morale.

> Characters
Combat Alchemist
> Meme rules, RNG based unit. After three attacks gains a chance to blow himself on further attacks. After 6 attacks he gets a debuff to his attacks.
Psycho Socialite
> High speed low armor suicide bomber unit, leaves a debuff on death that completely neuters nearby models. Not combat skills beside blowing up.
Field Chirurgeon
> Healer, also good ranged attacker if buffed. Poison ranged attacks. Bad combat skills on his own.
Hetera
> Assassin-Support. Provides Crit buff (?) to a single model. Can recruit enemy Soldiers instead of killing them.
Hierophant of Atlas
> Can soak up to 4 damage from friendly unit close to him. Armor Pen buff aura against Atlan. Can "Rebuke" "dark magic".
Atlantean Engineer
> Toolbox support unit, low damage output.

> Leaders
King Perseus
> Large aura buff to Skill that increases the longer the battle goes on. Boosts armor save of adjacent units. Once per battle grants a buff to Armor and Damage for how many friendly model died (up to +3) to a single model. Good melee stats.
Senator Bophades
> Weak combat stats, buffs aristocrat morale, debuff commoner morale, suffer morale debuff if there are any non-humans on the board. Unlocks Colonials as allies. +1 speed to all friendly units (!). Huge benefits on the Campaign phase.
Strategos Hyas
> Commoner Leader, mounted on Olm (so amphibious cavalry)

>>88891691
cont.

Strategos Hyas
> Commoner Leader, mounted on Olm (so amphibious cavalry). Buffs a single model every turn to give it +2AP. When he kills a model, he gains back an AP to assign again like this. Buffs commoner models, debuff aristocrats models.
Noble Scion (unnamed Leader?)
> Good melee stats, bonus to Skill and Damage vs enemy Leaders/Characters, buffs armor peircing of units engaged with non-humans, select up to 5 models at the beginning of the game to be his Entourage, they gain buffs based on their type.


Atlantis is probably one of the most developped faction right now, and I think we could try and use it as a template for how developped we need a faction before we can put it in the "starter box" category (which I guess means those we'll develop first into something playable).

>>88885718
>>88891241
I feel like we can have some characters that can also function as leaders.
Like, a British expedition led by a Sargent Major makes sense

Alternatively we make a "Build Your Leader"™ system for generic yourdudes leaders

>>88891691
>>88891786
oh you're the guy with the weird obsession of sticking Olms everywhere. You'll be the "primaris heavy stubber" guy of Agartha.

>>88892019
Wut?
I only copied what was in the Lore doc. I didn't make any Atlantean wojaks back then.
>>88891842
>I feel like we can have some characters that can also function as leaders.
I second this. On both accounts. Just have a seperate section of the profile for Leader abilities and rules, an alternative cost, and say "disregard this section if this character is not your Leader".
We could thus add Julius Vernes as a Leader for the French.

>>88891691
Atlan is much less developed.

> Troops
Atlan Immortal
Atlan Hospitalier
> Healer unit with a random chance to amputate you instead of healing.
Atlan Springgunner
Atlan Slave Soldier
Atlan Miner

> Warmachines (?)
Titanium Golem

> Characters
Titanium Crystal Mystic
Retiraoi (?)

> Leaders
Titanium King
Baron Phosporous
> Boosts Greek Fires attacks. Enemy units that loses morale are enslaved.
Pearlescent Princess

Atlan needs a few more Characters, and more characterization.

>>88892296
I love Atlan as much as any white man should, but it might be better to replace it with Indo-Lemuria at the moment, who is still a lot more developped.

>>88885718
So, if we characterize the factions we have from here
> France : Weird schizo frogs riding stuff that shouldn't be ridden underground. Good mobility options, low armor, good range, bad melee.
> Britain : Rainbow friendship coalition, the Brits were well intended colonialists all along, it turns out. Auxiliaries are mobile close quarter light troops, British troops are the shooting core. Low armor (a theme for colonials). Lots of Terrain preference options, lots of stackable buffs. Better melee than French.
> Atlantis : Either slow (unmounted) or fast amphibious (mounted), good armor, medium to good range with lots of special ranged attacks. Good melee. Lots of buffs. Possibly balanced by the fact that many units explodes on being killed, or rely on suicide attacks.
> Atlan : ???. Very heavy armor I guess? Shit ranged options outside of Greek Fires, so I guess they should have great melee?

bump
(You guys still there? I'm making a roster sheet for French Troops, I'm mostly done, I'll go take a walk while the Upper Sun is still out and finish it when I return, hopefully the threads still up)

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>>88893801
I’m still here, popping in throughout my work day. My apologies I can’t really knuckle down to solidify things with you guys.

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>>88870408
By the way, in the interest of helping the project along; would it be possible to get a blank template for units? It might help to have a canvas to pump out some more rough prototypes and view them as a whole. It’ll also help to build the play test packet I would think.

>>88892574
Hum, Garde Republicaine got a good melee option and some armor. The "High Mobilty, paper endurance" is more the American thing than the French thing I think.

>>88892574
Actually, if you consider mountain bikes and the fact horses would find little hay underground, bicycles aren't that silly.

>>88895087
>By the way, in the interest of helping the project along; would it be possible to get a blank template for units?
We still haven't settled on finalised stats, but I'm working on a version of the "1e" manual that will include this.

That said, the Units doc has its own prot-template to work with that's mostly close to the final product.

>>88893801
>(You guys still there?
Very much so. Occasionally I have other stuff to do though.

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>>88895575
Ohhhh, gotcha! What’s the current issue in regards to that? I see the coloration in the document, but I’m not sure where we’re sitting currently

>>88896030
>What’s the current issue in regards to that? I see the coloration in the document, but I’m not sure where we’re sitting currently
We have two main thoughts for core mechanics and they're both pretty similar,
>>88870408
>>88879513
but we haven't done any further discussion on settling on one. afaik both anons handling the rules, along with the anons handling the docs, are just slowly integrating all the rules together via comments on the rules doc in a relatively natural process

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On the topic, had a consideration for
EVASION / CRITS / WOUND management

Going off the second "simplified" ruleset, wouldn't it just be possible for every unit to have two separate "Evasion" scores?

One for Wound threshold, one for Critical threshold.

AS IN:
Attacker rolls to Hit against their Evasion
Defender has two evasion scores, "Base" and "Crit"
If you surpass the Base evasion (which would be relatively low) with your Hit result, you deal a Wound. If you pass the target's "Crit" evasion, you deal a Critical wound.

Then the defensive check would reduce Wound severity afterward.

>>88896199
In this idea I'm imagining "Base" evasion never really goes above 4 outside of rare cases, and "Crit" evasion could be s high as 12 or 13 in some rare case. Defensive saves and Armour would do most of the Wound mitigation.

>>88892574
The understanding I had when it comes to Atlan is that they are a faction of extremes.

A big focus on being split between incredibly slow, like some of the slowest in the game primary combat units. In return they are the some of the most durable with very strong melee combat.
Outside of the primary combat units the rest of their retinue is weak like some of the absolutely worst worker units and support units that mostly serve as fodder to buy time till the actual fighters can catch up.

If I had to propose anything based on what i have read up till now.
>Titanium King
Embodiment of the faction's mechanical identity as slow but virtually indestructible under his armor and puts up a good fight, really just an overpriced beatstick
>Baron Phosphorous
Closer to a slightly beefed up version of a regular combat unit, possibility with morale bonuses for units like the Immortals. Has access to the enslave ability which allows him to take control of low morale neutral or opponent units (it makes the fodder units even more disposable when you can potentially replace them with another players better ones.
>Pearlescent Princess
Represents pure damage in that she is a lightly armored unit with lower than average speed but if she gets into melee combat she will likely one round anything else in the game.

Like I said its a faction of extremes.

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>>88896474
If we lean into the enslaved/Nobility unit dynamic, should the slaves be broken and 100% loyal? Or should it be balanced by have Atlan overseers that keep the fodder in line? Thus creating a balance of controlling and spending your chaff wisely while maneuvering your “THIS GOLEM WAS PROGRAMMED TO VIOLATE YOU” tier troopers into position.

Also makes sense from an Expedition situation where they send their scouts and middlemen ahead before getting to the fun part.

>>88896595
>should the slaves be broken and 100% loyal?
Exceedingly high loyalty but Slave morale failures mean they join the other side instead of routing?

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>>88896664
Certainly be an interesting campaign mechanic, with your Expedition suddenly having a bunch of incredibly grateful hanger ons. Assuming they stick around after the Episode.

Have we established what the different expedition modifiers are per faction?
Like it could be:
>France resupplies the easiest, but its logistics are very frugal - thus the bicycles. Any advanced machines or heavy equipment you bring cannot be supplied easily - if at all.
>Britain brings the biggest toys and has its territory furthest away, thus has the most fragile supply chain. However, they can resupply from various ocean tiles.
>Americans need to set up their railroad in order to resupply effectively, otherwise they're reliant on wagon trains.
>Turks, being necromancers, can forage from the field more easily.
>Atlans need to worry about their slaves, who may have separate needs than the 'pure' forces.

Okay, another weird suggestion.

>Merely exceeding Evasion is a Success
>Equalling it EXACTLY is a Critical Success

>>88886954
Bro, this might be a huuuge request
but could you do me some art of a Gorg shanking someone with a stalactite?

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>>88897493
After I get home from work and get my odds and ends done, I’d be more than happy to!

Quick question, do you want a big Gorg or a normal sized Gorg just going ham with a huge stalactite? Or just a stalactite the size of a shank?

>>88897936
Reasonably sized one-handed stalactite shank.
Three-horned Gorg! Such barbarity is not becoming of a respected Four-Horn. They use proper Gorgian Clubs like cultured individuals.

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>>88897949
Of course! I would never sully rich Gorg culture!

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>>88897993
>I would never sully rich Gorg culture!
Don't worry, if you tried, Lee-Dehr would have a word with you...

I fucking love this setting.

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>>88898116
I love this setting exactly as much as I would hate living in it.

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>>88895087
>By the way, in the interest of helping the project along; would it be possible to get a blank template for units?
Here, but the template is still growing as we are figuring stuff out. I've added movement and AP to this one. We haven't really settled on the AP system but having a written stat set at 2 for almost everyone works for both proposal on the table (as the pool proposal needs a stat as a "cap" that can be spent on a unit anyways).
> Also, I don't know if the anon working on the "simplified, no hit location" version replied last thread of not, but did we decide on which edition was which? I don't care either way.

>>88898350
>Armor
Also, we should settle on whether we're using proper spelling or American spelling.

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>>88898355
Sorry, am frog, its not intentional...

>>88898390
I'm an English editor so I can cover that side of things when we approach a more final product.

I meme. You should post happy frog because your contributions have been amazing.

>>88898355
British spelling would suit the setting more.
t. American

In a perfect world, it would display differently depending on which region you're in.
English spelling in America, American spelling in England.

>>88898407
Except for the American units, who have American spelling

>>88898486
For maximum power level, we have to set each 1 Inch hex to represent 1 Meter in the game world.

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>>88898520
BASED

>>88898520
Yep. That sounds good to me.

>>88898598
Memes are fine and all, but I feel like we should take a page out of Battle for Wesnoth's book and go with HAPMA:
Hexes
Are
Perhaps
Miles (Or meters, in this case)
Across

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>>88898796
That sounds like the most sensible option.

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>>88898905
>Doesn't get it at all
Battle for Wesnoth is a strategy game about hex-based fantasy warfare. The important part is that it uses hexes to display terrain. A single unit is sometimes used to represent one soldier or it may be used to represent an entire squad or more. Therefore, hexes cover a very nebulous area depending largely on context clues.
I also suggested we use Wesnoth-style movement rules a while back, where each unit has a movement type that corresponds to how fast it can move on any given terrain as well as to how well it can defend itself on that terrain.
It's perfectly fine to crib from this game, it's completely open source.

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time for some Saur Knight of New Mu nostalgia.

>>88899103
luv me saur
luv me mu
simple as

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>>88899103
When are we getting models for their Siege Saurs?

>>88899103
unironicaly Satsuma does it better

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>>88899124
when the company stops wanking off the Lemurians and their vedic warrior spam

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BROS
HYPERBOREAN FORCES ARE JUST OUTSIDE MY CITY
HOW DO I SAFELY GET MY SKIN OFF BEFORE THEY BREACH?!

>Skinplates
Hyperboreans don't wear armour. Instead, they wear Skinplates.
Through advanced sciences, they are able to sustain life and have their skinned victims still able to feel through their removed hide, at any distance.
Hyperboreans wear the skins of their captured foes, stretched over braces as 'armour' plates. When you attack them, you must first penetrate these plates, causing pain to your captured comrades in the process.

So what I'm saying is, many Hyperborean units don't have any Armour values at all. Instead, attacking them hurts your Morale.

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>>88897493

"Simplicity trumps Prophecy."

-Hyas, Atlantean Strategos

>>88900683
bro he's rockin that stink juice
respect

>>88900683
How should I credit you in the 1e doc?

>>88900702
Put me down as Hruk.

If that’s how it supposed to go. I’ve never been credited before; I’m incredibly flattered!

>>88900797
>Hruk
Will do. And, credited you shall be, that art is fucking immaculate.

>>88900683
>"Extra AP trumps Prophecy"
ftfy

>>88880981
ATLAN IS A GLORIOUS EMPIRE RULED BY A DUTIFUL KING DEDICATED TO PRESERVING THE SACRED WALL, ATLANTIS IS A COLLECTION OF SNIVELING COWARDS TOO WEAK TO ACCEPT THE TITANIUM TRUTH

>>88900997
Atlan is a cancer that was cut from the superior Atlantean body.

Anons, I think it's time to consolidate the rules somewhat.
We mainly have these >>88870408 >>88878086 >>88879513 >>88898350
and the ones in the rules doc >https://docs.google.com/document/d/14ZpHhEyUbjt-SCx2xuAd0lyh7Rs4J7rK5kHkljqykhk/

A lot of the mechanics don't conflict too much or differ only in name (like Skill/Strength, Health), but some do
The main one is the Dice system, the doc uses 1d10 roll under while the ones in the thread use 1d10 roll over.
There was some concerns about variable armor complicating the tracking process, but imo if we use a range of squares instead of numbers (like we did for health) it should work out. (like here >>88879513 )

We also haven't decided on how your units get AP
I understand >>88879442 's reasoning for a static pool, but I think players with lots of models being penalized by awful stats and vice versa is enough. Static AP would cripple mob rushes (a Morlock tide list would either be impossible to play or just unfun) while heavily benefiting elite Atlan-style lists.

>>88901283
>The main one is the Dice system, the doc uses 1d10 roll under while the ones in the thread use 1d10 roll over.
I prefer roll over because this ain't fuckin' golf, bro.
Big number = good number. That's just how things work.

>>88901283
>>88901300
I agree roll over hits my lizard brain just right, big number mean big good!

>>88901530
gorg like big
big good

>>88900683
Okay so I just have to finish my "1e" rulebook unit lists and it will be ready to post.

Any other art you want to provide will be included. The two you've done already are more than enough to SOVL up the document, at any rate.

>>88901283
Do a strawpoll for the things that conflict, call the winner 4e and put the other mechanics under a vague "old editions", which anons can work on separately from there if they want to.

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Rate my prototype 1st edition unit statblock design

>>88902210
IVMP MEN were so SOVL...

>>88902254
JUMP MEN ARE NOT REAL UNITS
IT SAYS (EXAMPLE) RIGHT THERE
YOU CAN NOT BRING AN ARMY OF JUMP MEN
JUMP MEN ARE NOT REAL UNITS
FOR FUCK SAKE

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>Even if they were real, Jump Men had no faction so they couldn't be played in the 1e "Restricted to faction" rules
>... but Napoleon had his "Take units from any army" ability way back in 1e
>People would bring Napoleon armies with a Jump Man in them

deep holes are no match for Jump Man's glory

so...
what the fuck do we do with leadership points?

>>88902619
All units have 2 AP baring some exceptions. They reset every turn.
Leaders have differing LP pools that they can use to issue Orders to have one unit get like 1-2 extra AP per turn and/or maybe use their abilities. They reset every combat or the pool is larger, doesn't reset and is meant to be used up over the length of the expedition.
Or we just use the old mechanic, where Orders just transfer AP from Leader.

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alright then, in an effort to actually get some semblance of a play-testable game done, I took my thoughts on highly streamlined combat and cobbled together a first prototype of 1e basic rules
I see this document as something of a pre-release internal doc that isn't close to what was actually printed for the 1st edition rules.

not including unit stat blocks yet, I'll figure those out later

What is it missing?
What parts of it fucking suck?
What should be removed?
Does it even function as a game with just four pages of rules?!

>>88902718
>Or we just use the old mechanic, where Orders just transfer AP from Leader.
I prefer the "Non-regenerating LP" but as a pool to transfer to other units as AP/

>Anon invents random placeholder unit to demonstrate unit stats
>this is now an actual unit that will probably make its way into the game/lore
God, I love this game and everything about it.

YOU CAN NOT PLAY JUMP MAN
HE IS NOT A REAL UNIT
STOP BRINGING JUMP MAN ARMIES TO THE TABLE, JEFF
JUMP MAN IS NOT REAL

>>88902744
Bloody good work anon! I think we have a real foundation here. Obviously the rules are simple, and we can improve and iterate a lot, but there's nothing terrible that stands out to me. Maybe fiddle with the order things are in, but that's about it.

>>88903915
>Maybe fiddle with the order things are in, but that's about it.
Honestly, I've been thinking about the way I handled Crits here

I'm starting to think that Roll Under would work better with the "Exact target = crit" system.
That being, the smaller the dice, the better it is.
An Evasion of 2 is very easy to beat with a 1d4, but hard as hell to beat with 1d10, for example. And this would match nicely with targeted crits, as smaller dice have higher chance to be exactly on target.

Maybe golf wouldn't be a bad idea after all..

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>Jump Men have frog-like legs
>The only way to field them is with a French leader

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>>88903964
GOD DAMNIT.

put Napoleon on Jump Man's back
he'll be back on the surface in no time

I think the setting's End Times could be some sort WWI alternative, except it's Hyperborea VS everyone fighting among themselves.

>>88904212
>Hyperborea comes from the sky
>Jump Man is the only one who can reach them
the hero we need

>>88904779
>STOP THAT BLADE JUMP MAN
>RULES OF ENGAGEMENT

In all seriousness though, Jump Men could be French or Atlantean units using some sort of piston-propelled boots.

>>88904960
Why would Jump Man need piston powered boots?
He can already jump good,

>>88905002
To jump even better.

>>88902718
>>88901283
>We also haven't decided on how your units get AP
I am warming up to the idea of 2 AP per Soldiers on average. As long as the turn order is alternative activation, it shouldn't be too much of an issue.
For the Leadership points imho I'd lean to have Leaders have more AP by default and the Leadership abilities simply cost AP.
>Anons, I think it's time to consolidate the rules somewhat.
I kinda lean in the same direction, but not in the same way. Its fine to have multiple drafts of gameplay mechanics atm since we haven't playtested anything yet. But there is a lot in the Rules Doc I haven't used yet, and it might be time to start looking into it.
>The main one is the Dice system, the doc uses 1d10 roll under while the ones in the thread use 1d10 roll over.
I personally concur with >>88901300
>>88901530 >>88901538 that roll over is better. Roll under is fine when there is a face-to-face mechanic like in Infinity, otherwise its just annoying to the normie part of my brains.

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>>88905452
Also, here are the French troop roster I made up yesterday. The Special rules are lifted from the Lore document. As always, all values and rules are subject to change. If you made a wojak back then and feel like I didn't capture your unit's spirit properly just let me know.

>>88905805
Good job, but it's Vrijkorps. I know, Dutch is ridiculous.

>>88905829
Thank you anon! I knew I was making a mistake somewhere in in, will fix it on the next draft.
And yes it is.

>>88905805
Oh also if there are no weapons its because I want to add them to the weapon doc at the same time, to keep is as consistent as possible.

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British troop roster up!

>>88905805
Is there any particular reason you've omitted some specials, like the Dutch getting morale and hit bonuses when close together/panicking when other Dutch die?

>>88906520
Yes, because I haven't really given any thought to Morale yet. Nothing is excluded by principle, it'll just be woven in later on.

>>88902210
I like it! Clean, readable and expandable!

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>>88901717
Of course! Im happy to be actually contributing to a project! I’ll think of a few more scribbles and post them in the thread as we go along!

Gonna take a look through the 1e doc on my way to work; and good work anon! You should be proud of yourself!

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Building on the proposal for Napoleon IV to be a unit
>Either a Leader or a Hero
>Estranged from his father over him failing to secure the throne and mellowing out with age, abandoning his imperial ambitions
>Luis-Napoleon, however, hasn't. Proudly bearing his name, he's using the expeditions as means to prove himself and amass fame and riches, in hopes of one day becoming emperor.
>Ridiculous personal Morale and Will
>Trait - "Daddy Issues": Can't be in the same army as Charles L.N.B.
>Passive - "Rising Star": After scoring a Crit, all units in range get a morale boost
>Passive - "La Bonne Part": Gets Skill and Evasion bonus equal to the number of enemies within range, up to, say, 3
>Ability - "Voilà une belle mort": Once per battle, for the next 3 turns ignores Health-based debuffs and can, once per turn, do a Will check to downgrade damage by one tier (still dies as usual otherwise, loosely based on his last stand against the Zulu)

>>88907102
Or maybe let him roll extra dice and drop the lowest based on the enemy number in range, like up to 2 extras at at least 3 units. He'd have more Crit opportunities, feeding into the other passive.

>>88907102
Love it!

>>88907154
Or pick highest, technically.

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>>88902744
I noticed with “ The battlefield may be shaped to player preferences.” Perhaps we should have a recommended minimum battlefield size/hex count to help guide players? Or is that not a concern as we haven’t decided how fast our units can really scuttle across the battlefield in practice?

Did we ever settle on a name for the not!Games Workshop stand in?

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>>88905805
nice work but your pics are about a decade off

>>88907942
have i missed this lore? i've been here since the start and still have no clue wtf this guy is saying

>>88908027
This is a fake game made by a fake company with a fake history covering several editions.

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>>88906502
also these too.

>>88908017
>>88908047
will fix! thank you!

>>88907942
Noble Goose Games or Eccentic Goose Games, using a goose as a logo, referencing Verne's "The Will of an Eccentric"

>>88908559
The latter can also be abbreviated as EGG.

>>88907930
>? Or is that not a concern as we haven’t decided how fast our units can really scuttle across the battlefield in practice?
I just added that because "lmao its 1st edition nobody knows what's going on" but yes, having a general sense for battlefield size would be good

>>88906502
Looks like 2-4 Movement is going to be about the standard, 5-7ish for cavalry?
I think that's a reasonable range to go for.

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>>88909463
I getcha! I got a bunch of old hero scape tiles, so I’m trying to figure out what I would use. It would be three rows minimum on both sides for deployment. With Calvary moving 5-7 spaces a turn, I would think a minimum of 20-25 hexes lengthwise (of varying width) would make for a roomy enough battlefield. Or do you guys think it should be a little bigger?

>>88909723
I think it should be a little bigger, if only so we can have fun with cave systems and digging through rock. Imagine say using a melee focused army and boarding yourself up in a small cave to counter a colonial gun army, but then they dynamite the walls and your cover is gone. Fun gameplay mechanics like that.

>>88909723
>20-25 hexes lengthwise
Yup, maybe a bit more once we figure out scenarios and NPCs, but that sounds like a good start.

>>88909723
>I would think a minimum of 20-25 hexes lengthwise (of varying width) would make for a roomy enough battlefield. Or do you guys think it should be a little bigger?
Yes I'm imagining something like 20+ hex length too.

>>88906520
I'm starting to look into Morale as it's been mentioned a lot for special rules, I'd like to stick maybe closer to the doc if possible since I feel I've taken a lot of liberties since the start, but the Morale check conditions... well there's over 20 of them.
So, Will value for Morale rolls. How do we do that? Like a Save that can be modified, like, [6+]?
Could "Fear" be a 'token' value that could add up throughout the whole game? I think there was a mention of a Courage value, maybe models suffer Fear until they go over their Courage Value and then you run away? Or lose 1AP?
I've never been much of a fan of Morale in wargames, I've always felt it was simultaneously absolutely a requirement and also nearly always badly done... Hopefully we can figure something fun.

>>88910277
>So, Will value for Morale rolls. How do we do that? Like a Save that can be modified, like, [6+]?
Another option is that Morale becomes another resource spent to avoid ability effects, in addition to Health/Armour.

>>88910403
Or, Will is a normal value, the highest the better, and the roll is made by the opposing player against it, as the roll represent how terrifying whatever the event that caused the Morale check is?

>>88910857
Aye. Many possible ways to do it.
ANOTHER option is to have it be an army-wide pool, either based on your Leader or from a total of Unit contributions.

Some kind of "Spend Morale to roll-under how much Morale you spent" or "Spend morale to gain that much bonus on your morale check" thing. Tied to Leadership score?

At any rate, I definitely like the thought of figuring out what the fuck Morale is and how it works next. Its integrated into a LOT of systems and we really haven't touche don the actual mechanics of it yet at all.
Next thread focus?

>>88910879
Almost every characters and leaders have abilities which touches on Morale, so, yes, it should definitely be the next mechanical aspect to be touched on.

>>88910900
I'd say we should at least investigate NOT having it be either a generic roll check OR a generic resource pool
We already have both of those, mechanically. Might be hard to figure out a new idea, but having Morale be distinctly differentiated from the core mechanics we already have could enrich gameplay.

>>88910913
>I'd say we should at least investigate NOT having it be either a generic roll check OR a generic resource pool
I agree, but I'm at a loss for a suggestion. I like the idea of having it tied to the entire army. I dont even know what it should do. A debuff to stat? A straight up loss condition? THE loss condition?
Models should have an input, in that some units should have better morale than others.

>>88910277
Morale is basically mental Health. Will is basically mental Armor. You roll Will like a save against Morale damage. When you run out of Morale you trigger the fear state appropriate for the unit. I don't think all units should have an entire spectrum of fear states assigned to them. Most would freeze up or flee. Things like frenzy, surrendering, defecting etc. would be conditional or more likely for paricular units. Like maybe the unit is surrounded by enemies and is close to dying, then surrender is more appropriate. Some units never surrender, flee or freeze, but enter frenzy. Some units can trigger different fear states by their abilities, e.q. make units more likely to surrender or defect. Something like that.

>>88911005
I think it's also better to make Morale damage work simpler. You just have boxes and Will check negates damage. If it fails, you lose one box. Intensity of whatever has affected the unit should just make the Will check harder (as if the source had greater psychic PEN, essentially)

>>88910959
I think in the way Morale has been discussed when coming up with unit concepts its important to keep in mind that low morale seems to have units breaking and/or fleeing associated with it.
Baron P's whole thing is that he can enslave low morale units and when it come to Morlocks their inherent low morale makes them likely to break and become some sort of neutral/hostile to everyone unit.
The wording as it has come up on the chart also indicates that units have their own separate morale levels.

Really this is making me thing of a important question.
On account of the grids being dozens of hypothetical concepts made by various people, how close should the continued development keep to the core concepts laid out in those original posts and how much leeway should be given to make a working system.

>>88911039
Or, like, all morale damage is a Graze, so you could fit it in less boxes, but you can't deal more.

>>88911039
>>88911078
You know, we could actually have Morale be an "Army-wide healthbar" kind of thing. Your whole army has Morale, and damage is dealt to it through certain circumstances and attacks?

And on the topic of Morale, would it be reasonable to simply have your Leader unit make the morale saves, instead of scattering out Will stats to every individual unit?
Might not work for having different units with better or worse Morale though. Worth considering.

>>88911047
>how close should the continued development keep to the core concepts laid out in those original posts and how much leeway should be given to make a working system.
Original concepts literally don't matter. What is posted here doesn't, either.
Everything is a suggestion until refined AND playtested
Some ideas that sound good end up being loathsome on the table. The more things we have to fall back on the better, so old scrapped ideas could easily either
>Be worked in as a different mechanic somewhere else
or
>Be brought back if a new idea doesn't work out

>>88911112
You could maybe have some sort of collective Durability analogue for Morale, so you can still have individual Morale and Will values, but have everyone affected by the overall state of the army. So after some Morale damage taken, you lose that collective Durability (Courage? Composure?) and all further Will checks are harder.

>>88911142
Or maybe Discipline.

>>88911156
>Discipline
I like this. Your army's total Morale could be a sum of unit Discipline + Leadership?

>>88911112
>>88911124
I think an army wide morale stat with different units having different breakpoints could work.
That way its only one number that needs to be adjusted in response to the campaign but it can still give a difference between what it takes to break say a resolute warrior, mercenary caveman, and bedraggled slave miner.

So like if one of your guys gets shot that going to ding group morale a bit and if there was some sort of nightmare monster that sapped sanity from those around it standing next to your guys it can ding your morale a lot depending on how many units are nearby.

Plus it works with the small skirmish army size as a band of 15 dudes will likely be more in tune with the goings on of their comrades than a random military squadron halfway across the layer.

>>88911185
>different breakpoints could work.
Also a great idea.
Perhaps "Discipline" represents when total Morale reaches below the Unit's Discipline stat?

>>88911124
>Might not work for having different units with better or worse Morale though. Worth considering.
That's the issue with it, the doc does mention variation in morale between units a lot to characterize models.
>>88911047
>how close should the continued development keep to the core concepts laid out in those original posts and how much leeway should be given to make a working system.
I think parallel development is a strength. If at some point I deviate too much from some anon's idea of how the game should work, he is 100% encouraged to copy-paste what he likes and then correct what he doesn't, and post it as a "xth edition".
The rule doc is cool but its also a mess and I will check it but I'd rather we recheck every mechanic on its on merit as we do now. As of now I've used the lore doc more as a basis of development, and what I find in it I'll eventually try to represent it.
>>88911005
>Morale is basically mental Health. Will is basically mental Armor.
This is the easiest way to do it and more or less what came to my mind immediately came to my mind. It basically works as is with what seems to be suggested in the Lore doc (Leaders being able to buff individual units morale, "Morale" point loss, etc).
The single issue I have with it is that its the least inventive method possible. But I've played enough FFG games to know I'd take a working boring rule over an inventive gimmick that breaks the game.
... That said token bag morale effect ? Kek don't kill me please.

>>88911162
I'd rather have individual Morale-Health, with Will checks being Will+Discipline. When a certain amount of Morale damage (based on army size) is taken across different units, you lose Discipline, making further individual Will checks harder.

>>88911193
This may just be because I have Darkest Dungeon on the brain but the idea of the player needing to roll when morale crosses a units discipline threshold to keep them stable with the roll needing to be redone every turn till Morale stabilizes, also that various leaders have buff's to those morale rolls al;ll just sounds neat to me.

But I'm not, like, against collective Morale. We agree on some form of individual differentiation one way or the other and morale buffs can be redone accordingly.

>>88911264
I'm just advocating it be something more interesting than "its another health bar per unit" or "its another check to beat identical to regular attacks"
We already have generic checks and generic damage. Adding a carbon mechanical copy of these things adds basically NO tactical interest to the game, might as well not have it if that's the case.

>>88911280
Fair, as long as it works.

>>88911156
I really like the idea of having a Disciple value for the whole army and individual will/morale mechanic for units.
Perhaps the Discipline could be the loss condition? As in, you must never let it reach 0 or you lose? Morale could debuff individual units severely, but you'd need widespread panic to lower you Discipline to 0 and just completely rout... ?

>>88911264
>>88911280
I like to think of it as an experimental feature that if it doesn't work out or the consensus seems to be against it can easily be replaced with the tradition way of doing things.

>>88911292
Discipline could be a set value for each Faction, with a modifier per Leader/Characters?

>>88911292
Would getting routed be a loss as in you lose the entire game or could you retreat and potentially recover?

>>88911319
As in a complete loss condition, like a bottle test in old Necromunda (I don't know the new edition), or warcaster/warlock death in Warmachine.
Not sure if its a good idea mechanically, it would mean we'd have to be careful balancing "morale" threats.

>>88911280
Not necessarily. It's a fun fluff option, and it's an alternate way to hurt your enemy while also not ensuring they get killed. We could also work something in about map-wide morale events or effects, maybe dependent on the battlefield or areas of the map. E.g "These tiles are consumed by darkness. -4 morale to all units who enter."

>>88911486
>Not necessarily. It's a fun fluff option, and it's an alternate way to hurt your enemy while also not ensuring they get killed.
My point being, if that "alternate way" is highly similar to what we already have, its not meaningful enough to include.
And, if its just included as a "fluff option" then its extra complexity for little or no gain.

It should be meaningfully different from Health / defenses imo.

>>88899103
Shit, Chechens were this /fa/?

>>88911319
I think we should remember historical survival rates for routs and defeats. It sucks and you wouldn't want to experience it, but you can recover.

Maybe this is why it's important to invest resources in building up bases as you dig downwards, as this is where you'd recover from bad routs.

>>88911185
>>88911193
What if units have several Morale points. Say, average Joe has 3, cowards have 1-2, brave units have 4 and some trully Kokand Balls-bearing individuals have 5. Army has a collective Dread stat. When collective Dread exceeds unit's Courage/Discipline, Will checks are made. On success, next check is delayed by Turns equal to current Morale points. On failure unit loses the point. Once all points are gone unit enters the fear state. We could also just have Will simultaneosuly serve as the Courage/Discipline stat. You won't be losing it like with the whole Armor/Durability situation, so it won't create extra complexities.

>>88912921
Main problem is tracking Turns, so maybe just have fixed delays or derive them from a more constant value.

>>88912921
>What if units have several Morale points. Say, average Joe has 3, cowards have 1-2, brave units have 4 and some trully Kokand Balls-bearing individuals have 5. Army has a collective Dread stat. When collective Dread exceeds unit's Courage/Discipline, Will checks are made. On success, next check is delayed by Turns equal to current Morale points. On failure unit loses the point. Once all points are gone unit enters the fear state. We could also just have Will simultaneosuly serve as the Courage/Discipline stat. You won't be losing it like with the whole Armor/Durability situation, so it won't create extra complexities.
Bouncing off this, we discussed Prophecies using an upward-scaling risk management system
We could just port something like that to Morale as a whole.