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>TL;DR Doc (WIP) This needs a bit more fleshing out
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LxdaGoBlJRTMuziMDupG5TeeFwNDnsIW2pfaRAcFDgA
> Lore Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bRrxdD1BMLmcMDFeszwqg2Rcjrt8DDo7tjAxoOB6KQ8
> Rules Doc (I'll update it this weekend)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/14ZpHhEyUbjt-SCx2xuAd0lyh7Rs4J7rK5kHkljqykhk/
> Unit Spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rcleQtrT4Q0INiBW50-kq2ZXWJ-cjLOeVTLTJg_oX5E

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REJECT MODERNITY
EMBRACE GORG

Everyone okay with moving Morale to an army-wide statistic?
Not regarding how it is actually implemented. Just to differentiate it from Health/Armour/etc. which are per-unit-tied.

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Okay, guys, brain hurt but I think I might've got something going.
Personale Morale points and Will.
Army-wide Dread is accumulated as SPOOKY shit is happening.
Dread has tiers. At tier 1 you roll one Will check, lose Morale point on failure. At tier 2 - 2 rolls, stop at success or 2 failures. At tier 3 - 3 rolls, same logic.
Now, for overall dread and the spooky shit in question. We could split up the proposed Will check triggers.
Overall Dread would be raised by fixed values of, say, 1-3 points by things like enemy Crits, kills, presence of scary monsters, scary AOE attacks like Greek Fire, mass kills by explosions etc. Dread pools would be something like 10+ based on Leaders and army composition (?). When the pool is filled up, it is upgraded a tier and set to 0. Everyone rolls required Will checks.
But you'd also have direct Morale damage. This will be achieved by specific conditions happening to specific units, like stepping into SPOOKY terrain, getting hit by special abilities, being reduced to one Health box, etc. They don't care what the fuck the overall Dread is, THEY are freaking out and must make a Will check, potentially losing a Morale point.
This would allow for two separate sources of Morale damage. Slow and indirect through staking Dread and quick and direct, triggering Will checks upon impact. This would also allow for different tactical approaches. The enemies have an annoying buff based on their personal Morale (like, say, the Armorclads maybe)? You can counter ASAP if you can damage morale directly. Th enemy is tanky, but you have reliable ways of stacking Dread and they have jack shit Dread mitigation? If you hold on long enough, you can wear them down and have them break, overwhelmed by tier-triggered Will checks. And you could also combine the two. Soften enemies up with direct Morale damage, while you stack Dread and have them all hit by a Will-check wave at their weakest. Or wear them down with Dread and go for the kill with direct damage.

This would also allow for different "Morale buffs"
1. Personal Morale restoration ("heals")
2. Morale damage mitigation: temporarily ignore Morale damage, soak it up like the Hierophant does with Health, etc.
3. Reduce overall Dread, temporarily ignore Dread, reduce required Will checks, etc.
Many units have morale-based abilities, to the point where it is a little repetitive. But this way we could diversify their abilities by approaching different sides of Morale-Dread system.
Morale would be immediate unti-specific, quickly lost and regained thing. Dread could be something you must managed long-term, much like logistics and planning your pursuit of macro-objectives.

>>88914915
>Personale Morale points and Will.
I think I like "Discipline" as the name over Will, far more evocative of combat operations

that said, I don't mind the rest of your post.

>>88914824
>Everyone okay with moving Morale to an army-wide statistic?
I'd really prefer we find a midway point, so that there is a global and an individual morale. The idea of an army wide morale is great but that means that we drop a lot of the content of the lore document, as it is no longer compatible.
Expanding on the Discipline idea of last thread.
> Add a Will Value to individual models. Can either be a straight save ("x"+) or a value, both can be boosted or debuffed.
> Add a box track next to unit's health for Morale. There are no damage types, you just cross the box when you lose morale. Say 3 boxes is the default.
> Each box have a debuff set next to it. Say 1: -1 Skill, 2: -1 AP, 3: Cannot be activated
> Models must make a Will Check whenever a friendly model within 3 hexes die.
> Warbands have a Discipline value based on their Faction, modified by their Leaders & Characters and maybe some makeup rules for each Faction (for exemple Atlantis has lower Discipline the more Aristocrats and Commoners are mixed together).
> Whenever a Model crosses his last Morale box his owner must roll to lose 1~3 Discipline (variation keeps it interesting) and possibly other events (models going traitor, models gaining insanity, etc). If you reach 0 Discipline, you must start doing Will checks at the beginning of your turn for each of your models or they start running away from the board.
> [Figure out a mechanical way by which you can gain back either Morale or Discipline.]

Not necessarily the most creative system but I think it could work.

Going to also toss in a totally random concept for Morale:

>Your army is dealt Morale damage as a whole by certain things
>Like, say, a Unit dying causes Morale damage equal to its Silver score.
>There is no cap to how much Morale damage your army can have.

>You can spend Leadership points to 'Heal' Morale damage
>Otherwise it heals by 1 point at the start of every turn

>Each unit has a Discipline stat
>Units with Discipline lower than your current Morale damage can't take non-Movement actions.

Simple as. No rolls needed. Maybe, if that's too overbearing, have some qualifiers like
>From among all your units with Discipline below current Morale damage, you may only select one of those units to take actions during each turn.
instead of NO morale-broken units being unable to act.

>>88916054
Also, Discipline would act as the stat you roll for individual unit morale-based checks.

>>88916054
Huh, I really like this.

>>88916054
I was going to write a lengthy post for my proposal, but this is much better

So wait, if Lemurians are copying a previous civilization, and they're training Indians to use prophecy like they do..
How many civs have taken the Lemuriapill?

night bump

>>88916999
Checked, and I'd say, although this is purely personal, India, part of China and most of Mongolia. But that's just me throwing shit in the air.

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>>88916054
I like the limited action clause. Having to make a tough call of which of your demoralized troops is not only tactically challenging; but also gives a good representation of what a shit show a disorganized rout truly is.

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>>88916054
It just hit me! Rather than a penalty equal to silver each class of troop has a value that is added to the armies overall dread meter when they perish. So a moon would add 2 or so to the meter an Elite 3-4 and so on. And units like Morlocks, Atlan slaves or particularly dodgy mercs could be classified as Fodder which would 0-1 when they die. Similar to the Warhammer Gnoblars rule where the rest of the army (including other Gnoblars) don’t give two shits when those types of units bite the dust. Thus we could give these units super low morale, but losing them doesn’t punish the rest of the army nor discourage factions who rely on their Fodder troops.

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>>88920215
It would also increase the importance of Leaders and Heroes working in tandem. A decapitation of an enemy general is a telling blow to the army as a whole; so it would be important to have a balanced chain of command to mitigate said blow and help keep the army together.

>>88920279
Continuing my rambling I thought of some Morale/Discipline/Dread ability ideas

>Britain ‘Stiff Upper Lip Lads!’
>The next time a unit would be destroyed within X hexes of a Sargent Major; you may put the resulting Dread points aside. Until a unit is is destroyed outside the aura of this ability, these Dread points are not added to the pool. When destroyed, ALL Dread points set aside this way are added to the Pool

>Atlan ‘Serve Your Betters’
>If an Elite or higher Atlan unit is adjacent A fodder or Mook unit that is currently routing;you deal it a graze/Hit and activate the unit as if it was not Routing.

>Lemuria ‘As Foretold’
>A Prophet starts with ‘As Foretold’ with a value of (X) the first (X) Lemurian Units destroyed this game do not add to the Dread pool.

>Mu ‘Stare into the Abyss’
>The Enemy army does NOT recover 1 Dread per turn/alternatively all Dread accumulation is increased by 1.

>HYPERBOREA ‘SCREAMS IN THE ALWAYS’
>HYPERBOREAN armies do not gain dread. They instead use THE LOOP. The HYPERBOREAN army is tied to this plane via the suffering of others. They would theoretically gain buffs for the amount of wounded units on the field rather those who are routing or are destroyed. Perhaps it also links to the HYPERBOREANS needing a certain amount of pain dealt out by a certain turn during THE LOOP. Keeping their elite, ludicrously strong army on a strict timer.

>TECHNICOLOR LOBOTOMY
>Choose an adjacent routing enemy unit, it is now LOBOTOMISED. LOBOTOMISED units cannot route or be activated for any reason and keep all wounds inflicted on them.

>And yes all HYPERBOREAN rules are capitalized at all times.

>>88920906
>Continuing my rambling I thought of some Morale/Discipline/Dread
I really like calling Morale damage "Dread", very evocative.

With that up-scaling Morale we could honestly just have Prophecies deal Morale damage to your own army?

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Sorry I haven't posted much today, lots of spring cleaning, did some kitbashing tho. Figure Cromwell would eventually have some husks and mutated English-looking knights.

>>88922221
Looking good anon

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>>88921460
I like the narrative dynamic as well.

Discipline to overcome Dread.

Dread to Overwhelm their Discipline.

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>>88922221
Luv them beaks anon!

I was thinking once I convince my friend and the games gets to a playable state I’ll get some 15mm historical mixed with fantasy and others on rounds for my expeditions.

>>88922221
you deserved the quints mate
great stuff

>>88922469
>I like the narrative dynamic as well.
>Discipline to overcome Dread.
>Dread to Overwhelm their Discipline.
And honestly the "Can't take actions other than movement" fits perfectly as that's basically what routing is. You'll be running your low-Discipline units away from danger naturally until Morale improves.

If anons wants to start suggesting pictures for atlantean and atlan troop rosters, I'll whip them up early this week.

>>88922469
>Discipline to overcome Dread.
>Dread to Overwhelm their Discipline.
Dread and Discipline
tha big double D

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A British trooper recovers after a taxing battle against the belligerent natives.

>>88923795
LOOK OUT! THE SKYPEOPLE HAVE LOOSENED THOSE STALACTITES!

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>>88923843

>>88922017
>Roll a prophecy to win the battle or rout your entire army
Seems fair and balanced.

>>88923995
>Seems fair and balanced.
bro, fair and balanced is the antithesis of this shitshow of a setting we're putting together

Plus, you're only routing the mooks if you don't go overboard. And they can block fire for your important dudes. Morale-broken meat shields are perfectly fine units.

Well fuck that looks like Morale mostly worked out.
What else is left? Solidifying how Terrain works?

>>88920906
>Atlantis 'Lessons of the Heavensbearer'
>Every third turn 1 extra Dread is recovered. This works even if Mu stops the overall recovery.

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>>88923152
I think Atlantis should have a very ornate aesthetic, kind of a Renaissance ceremonial flair, except they actually wear that kind of armour into battle. Considering they're supposed to be the most enlightened in the setting.

>>88916054
>>88916069
So do they have some individual metric still or is it just roll Discipline or freak out on certain occasions? Could also make them lose Discipline itself on failed individual rolls, making them overall less useful on low Morale/high Dread until they enter fear states.
Could also make Discipline-below-Dread units roll Discipline to make a non-movement action this turn.

>>88914758
Recently a porous rock layer was discovered in the earth that contains more water than all the earth oceans.

We could also consider having your own Crits and kills and such on enemies lower your army's Dread for recovery purposes.

>>88924549
>So do they have some individual metric still or is it just roll Discipline or freak out on certain occasions? Could also make them lose Discipline itself on failed individual rolls, making them overall less useful on low Morale/high Dread until they enter fear states.
>Could also make Discipline-below-Dread units roll Discipline to make a non-movement action this turn.
Yes, tons of options. I think having Discipline just also be the stat rolled against unit-targeted Morale-attacking abilities is fine, to keep things clean.

>>88924549
>losing Discipline
I'm with the other anon - just keep it a stat instead of a resource for simplicity's sake
I've added the rules to the doc, kept everything as is, but added a rule for a per-model will check. Same mechanic as Dread, but it's locked to a model and lasts until the end of the turn.

>>88924595
>>88924646
Or we could somehow make individual Discipline/Will checks harder and have more pernicious effects on failure based on the overall Dread.

>>88916999
Probably SEA minus Vietnam (and maybe Philippines, but I’m not sure if they’re counted as part of the same region.)
>>88918889
This too.

>>88918889
>>88926106
I've proposed former Dutch East Indies to be haphazardly occupied and barely held together by Britain post the Dutch sinking, fighting against the onslaught of Lemurian-aided insurgents and native princedoms. Also they are supposed to still control Myanmar, Assam, Bengal and Malaya. I wonder if Charles Brooke would remain loyal to Britain or strike some sort of deal with Lemurians. Nepal is also stated in the doc as British ally, who interfered opportunistically during the Sepoy Rebellion. They probably combat whatever Lemurian influence they have going on.
Paris fell before they France really solidifed their control over Madagascar and Indochina, so I imagine at least some independent states supercharged by Lemurians would exist. Thailand seems like a good candidate, seeing as how they've still managed to maintain some form of independence OTL. Maybe any French campaigns that happened this timeline were also some joint Anglo-French attempt to prevet the Lemurians from making Asia completely uncolonizable. Merina kingdom/empire in Madagascar has also managed to put up some resistance to colonization attempts, and the island is supposed to be at one of the edges of the Lemurian continent, so it makes sense for them to be also propped up.
Tibet looks like a very high priority target for Lemurian influence, Mongolia probably doesn't have as much, but agents could operate there.
Lemurians operating in the Philippines (via Moros, I would imagine) could be fun angle to get the Alliance of the Faithful into direct conflict with Lemuria too.

>>88926499
Or James Brooke, rather, but he'd die by the start of the games.

Terrain / map rules next?

>>88924784
This is why it might be useful to have several tiers of Dread without upper limit:
>Dread 0-10 - 'Optimal' - most units can only become Shaken on failing Dicipline/Will check, only the most cowardly ones will running away from enemies and/or seeking cover
>Dread 10-20 - 'Fatigue' - all Discipline/Will checks harder by 1, more units may enter milder fearstates like simply avoiding enemies, determined by their keywords and degree of failure
>Dread 20-30 - 'Panic' - checks harder by 2, some units may surrender, defecting, entering frenzy etc
>Dread 30-X - "Chaos/Rout" checks harder by 3, some units may commit mass suicide with explosives, die of fear etc.
Values and properties of course open to readjustments

>>88927534
As for units rendered inactive: roll Leadership against value determined by current Dread tier. The degree of success determines how many can act? I like the idea of mechanics and chance impacting your degree of control over a panicked army somehow, but I also understand the desire to have less rolls and math, so one roll covers it nicely, I think.

>>88927534
If we go for different tiers of Dread I think it would be better to have it be model-based instead of a blanket effect
Something like
> Shaken - Dread exceeds Will, but below 2xWill - Current rules
> Panicked - Dread exceeds 2xWill, but below 3xWill - Model cannot be activated, at the end of turn moves to the closest escape. Fanatics try to get into melee instead.
> Broken - Dread exceeds 3xWill - The witnessed horrors were too much, remove as casualty at the end of turn
I wouldn't overcomplicate it, I really like the simplicity we currently have

>>88927818
Yeah, that works too. You could still diversify if need be by adding clauses like "becomes inactive when and flees when Shaken", "rolls a check and defects on failure when Panicked" etc.

Nightly bump

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>>88924576
Oh, that would be nice!

>>88924784
>Or we could somehow make individual Discipline/Will checks harder and have more pernicious effects on failure based on the overall Dread.
Seems interesting, but I wouldn't want players to have to refer to tables with every check.
If we do this, it'd have to be done elegantly.

>>88932949
I think >>88927818 has the right idea.
When a normal unit fails a Will check, they just skip a turn, unless specified otherwise.
When a Shaken unit fails a Will check, they skip 1d4 turns either frozen in place or fleeing, based on how bad it is, unless specified otherwise.
Panicked units act according to unit keywords (flee, attack closest enemy, etc.) , sometimes with one final check to see if they do something particularly bad like defect.
You won't check tables all the time. Some units can defect. Some units can enter frenzy and attack indiscriminately. Some units can blow themselves up. Et cetera. They only do it when Panicked and it's determined by one final Will check in their cases. So the range would be just "do they just flee or defect?" or "do they attack closest enemy or EVERYONE"?

>>88933019
Meaning that those Shaken units can't be used at all for those turns on top of them doing only movement actions.
I also think some form of Leadership check (not necessarily a roll) VS total Dread to determine how many Shaken units you can use is appropriate. It shouldn't be too much, maybe 1 or 2 extra.

>>88927534
>>88927818
If possible, I would prefer to instead of using "double / triple" simply have multiple unit thresholds on the card.

As in,
>Shaken 3
>Panicked 6
>Broken 9
or something like "DISCIPLINE: S3 / P6 / B9"
Even if we do stick with the strict doubling/tripling, having it referenced directly on the stat sheet instead of needing a little bit of math every time will help gameplay

>tfw the Atlan thinks he is safe behind his armor before the Lemurians drop the dark omen prophecy and follow up with a rockbreaker charge
I can already smell the bullshit
I love it

>>88934379
>tfw the Atlan thinks he is safe behind his armor before the Lemurians drop the dark omen prophecy and follow up with a rockbreaker charge
this is why we play Pearl over Titking, mate
Pearl's morale buff is just too important.

>>88934382
He clearly meant Vrit's bullshit autohit no armor save prophecy followed by Gog and Magog. Ain't no morale can help against that.

>>88934428
>Gog and Magog.
the immortal seethes

>>88934432
>so called "immortals" when a two ton armored giant crushes his head in one fist before making a bet with his buddy about how far he can throw the body
gogposting gives me a new lease on life

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I think in addition to including the four starter armies (England/France/Atlantis/Lemuria) we should also include a selection of mercenaries (both surface and underground) as well as rules for at least La Ombre. We probably won't have enough merc types to make the Lost Men reasonable.

>>88934525
>MAGOG: Uhhhh, say Gog, wadn't that s'posed to be some kinda big danger immortal guy or som'thin?
>GOG: Dunno, Magog, but 'ees gonna be big danger to them other immortals dat I throw'em at!
>BOTH: Hyukhyukhyukhyukhyukhyukhyukhyuk

lmfao
just realised the acronym for "Evasion, Discipline, Movement" is EDM.
anyone wanna go to the club?

if Pits are going to be involved...
can we have knockback and instant-kills if a Unit gets tossed into a pit?
Imagine the salt...

>>88934546
>Your Providence, do you really believe that these two are integral to the Great Work?
>First, disciple, it is not a matter of belief. I know. Second, ages ago, by the decree of the First Prophet Himself, a party of elite seers and warriors had to undertake a mission to the Surface. There they had to find a man on the island now called by the Surfacers 'Taiwan' or 'Formosa'. They came upon a humble village of primitive Surfacers, herding pigs, hunting, fishing, growing dry rice and raiding their neighbours to sever and collect their heads. The man in question was not a great chieftain or a fearsome warrior. He was a hunter, and a poor one at that, according to their observations. He really did not want to go. They dragged him all the way to Tenmadurai and presented him before the First Prophet. What His Omniscience said then shocked everyone: the man was to be properly trained with the utmost haste and made the Prophet-Lord. You know him now as Chitananda the Great. So do trust me, when I say that Destiny does work in mysterious ways. Besides, they've made short work of those corpse-wearing barbarians, did they not?

Fiddling with alternate Morale option...

>When each Turn starts, select Units with total Discipline greater than or equal to your Dread. Those Units can not take Actions this turn. (Movement is not an Action.)
>If Dread has rendered your entire army unable to act, you are Routed.

>>88934808
>Discipline greater than or equal to your Dread
Is that a typo, or are you actually proposing to use it like that?
The rout condition makes sense though. I don't know if the Broken tier with units essentially dying from morale loss is necessary/will make actual impact with this option. As in, your army could reaslistically Rout before people get Broken (I think?). Which is not a bad thing necessarily, but something to consider. The system could certainly work with just Shaken (still moving, limited activation, worse Will checks and fear states) and Panicked (completely out of control with different behaviors) states, since Broken is just alternate death more or less.

>>88927534
I prefer this static dread tier thing over per-unit scaling, for reasons of it being easier to track mid-game rather than tracking it based on multiples of Discipline per-unit mid game.

That said, we may be able to find something elegant for both.

>>88926499
Lemuria versus US?

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As much as I love the Auldest Alliance, I think it's worth giving the two gimmick "pick any unit" factions at least one more leader each.
For La Ombre; my immediate ideas are either someone who served under him at Waterloo or, if we want to go full wacky, make it the fucking Duke of Wellington, but I think that might be a little TOO wacky. Another option might be a Morlock leader of some kind, perhaps one dressed up in civilized people clothes.
For the Lost Men, I'm thinking some kind of crusty Neanderthal bandit king, preaching a different kind of madness from Malcolm, but technically falling under his authority as a leader of underworld mercenaries.
Either that, or some kind of Lemurian who was involved in the Sepoy rebellion and later influenced the Malcolmites. Instinct says some kind of enchantress type.

>>88935047
Honestly I think "pick any unit" should only be a single leader's gimmick and we shouldn't dilute it by tossing it around to other factions

>>88935059
The idea isn't to spread it to other factions, but to provide those factions with alternative leaders.

>>88935026
Thing is, you'd still need to check if their individual Will is lower than Dread for their activation availability, unless we scrap that. All individual scaling means in the other proposal is "Will/Discipline is lower than Dread by X" + more streamlined fear mechanics directly tied to their state, which is, well, it has its benefits (though it does limit the role of Will checks somewhat).

>>88935026
I agree with it being easier to track, but it doesn't really make sense when you have different tiers of models
> At 11 Dread your mooks are starting to panic a bit while your elite models with 14 Will are alright
> At 30 Dread your elites go from cold and calculated to shitting their pants in terror
Plus tracking per-model panic is very easy if we place the info on the unit's card, like this anon suggested >>88933779

>>88920906
>LOBOTOMIZED
WHY ONLY LOBOTOMY, A FIRST LEVEL SENSATION THAT DULLS THE SENSES. THIS IS ANATHEMA. IT IS BETTER TO PEEL THE FLESH FROM AN ENEMY, TO FLAY THEM. THEIR WRITHING IN PAIN IS MOLDED AS CLAY INTO YOUR ECSTASY AS YOU PIN THE FLESH DEEP INTO YOUR OWN.

>>88935072
>Thing is, you'd still need to check if their individual Will is lower than Dread for their activation availability
Yes but that's fine. Its not too hard to track, but shifting it from a boolean to multiple multiplication-based thresholds is much harder.
I mean specifically for the "Dread tier" thing, an easier system to track dread severity over your entire army instead of each individual unit having its own dread tear would be nice.

>>88935075
>l panic is very easy if we place the info on the unit's card, like this anon suggested
Honestly not a bad solution...

We have the core of Morale done. I think, like many other systems, we should aim to keep the fine details of it as clean and "Does not get in the way of gameplay" as possible.

The more time players spend thinking about tactics, and the less time they spend crunching numbers, referencing tables and doing general system busiwork, the better imo.

>>88935087
>Hyperborean "Lobotomies" actually involve adding more brain matter so you can experience more (worse) sensations
Bros...

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>>88934632
Funnily enough, they mention knockback with Prince Lee-Dehr... which in turn may may be linked to GORG SMASH! So, knockback has been in the game since 1e.

I like the idea that the Gorg playstyle is based around obnoxious battlefield control. Either by by softening the blows of melee monsters via overwhelming stench or pinballing smaller units around via knock back.

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>>88935111
>pinballing smaller units around via knock back.
Ah, the classic GORG SMASH into GORG SHANK combo.
Nothing better than being pinballing some unsuspecting British officer onto the end of a stalactite

>>88935108
TRULY, OUR GIFTS ARE THE GREATEST OF ALL THE LAYERS, FOR WE ARE BLESSED WITH SENSATION, WE DO NOT DEPRIVE OURSELVES OF EXPERIENCE AS YOU DO.

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>>88935108
>Hyperborean "Lobotomies" actually involve adding more brain matter
"Hyperborean Lobotomy" sounds like a fucking DSBM album name.

>>88935140
I mean they are basically Hellraiser Cenobites in a layer that collectively snorted 60 Benadryls

>>88935047
>Either that, or some kind of Lemurian who was involved in the Sepoy rebellion and later influenced the Malcolmites. Instinct says some kind of enchantress type.
A defector of some kind, pursuing a different agenda but still using prophecies? For whatever reason they decided to influence the Malcolmites to their own ends. Not necessarily nefarious, maybe they do believe this whole Hyperborea thing requires more immediate attention than whatever other Lemurians seem to be devoting themselves to.

Hyperborean theme song
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk68OZybqtg

>>88934382
>playing Pearlescent
>not Phosphorescent
That wasn’t very GLORIOUS of you anon…

>>88935180
Don't worry, Baron, I'm sure you'll be meta in 5e!

>>88935180
I simply can no longer stand having double digit Dread for more than a turn or two, man, it's like hard drugs.

>>88935127
>Unknown to most people, Gorgs have a rich recreational culture. In fact they have developed a game that is not unlike to the Surface dwellers game of lawn darts. Taking raucous/uncooperative prisoners, the Gorgs find a suitable pit filled with Stalagmites. The Gorgs then take turns heaving, throwing, and generally launching the unfortunate souls into the air. Where they inevitably impale themselves on the earthen spikes below. The game continues until the Gorgs run out of prisoners and tally up points based on distance, splatter range, and style, if the would be projectile landed in a particularly humorous way.

>>88935180
>Pearl is literally only mentioned three times in the entirety of lore
>Two fucking sentences about her starting
wars for fun with her daddy's armies, and one shitty short story where she's a side character that doesn't even say anything
>She's the god damned meta leader

>>88935175
>She took the whole "what if we recruit other empires' auxiliaries to fight for us" thing to the logical conclusion and now is willing to turn Lemurian auxiliaries against Lemuria
kek

>>88935202
No, please, don't, the Pearlfags will start writing walls of text on how nobody gets her genius ultra deep character again...

>>88935202
>>88935270
>phoschuds seething because queen pearl is the literal objective best leader for atlan
must be a day that ends in y

>Pearlescent Princess?
>Baron Phosphorous?
>Tch. Back in my day we had Gorg Shanker and Jump Man.
>Now those were REAL units.

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>>88935284
>You're not a queen yet, young lady.
>No triceratops for you this year. The old one died way too quick. Learn some damn frugality, girl, those aren't slaves! I could've commisioned a Golem with those funds.

>>88935188
Enslave has been busted since he was added to the roster.

>>88935047
>For La Ombre; my immediate ideas are either someone who served under him at Waterloo
Drouot? The guy was loyal to him to the end but somehow managed to evade any consequences. If Nappy showed up on one rainy evening in his study and told him to come be underworld shadow monsters with him and possibly potentially maybe save the world and make all men gods he'd probably be like "Fils de pute, I'm in!"

>>88935047
>For La Ombre; my immediate ideas are either someone who served under him at Waterloo
Fuck no
its Sidney Smith chasing him to the underworld

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Even in the game of Expedition, there is no accounting for taste.

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>>88935510
i, too, am a SOVL appreciator

>>88935510
>the jar on the shelf

>>88920906
I saw an idea last thread about Dutch unit fleeing/dying not causing moral loss for French units, since the French just kind of expect it.

>"No, Mister Phosphorous, I don't know how much one of my father's golems costs."
>"Wow! Is that a lot?"
>"Anyways, this positively hideous Lemurian missionary looked at me yesterday."
>"Could you get me a few thousand slave-soldiers, 600 immortals and 120 Spring-Gunners by next week?"
>"Great!"

>>88936146
slight alterations of one strand of hair upon closer inspection.

also, "Pearlescent" "Hair" and "Pixel Art" really do not mix
why the fuck did I think it was a good idea took so fucking long to get right lmao

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lmfao AND I exported it a different size from the rest of them. Two fixes.

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And that marks both the completion of Atlan leaders (apparently I'm an Atlan player) AND the halfway mark passed. 8 down, 7 to go.

Wish I had more free time to knock these out, but I'll get to them when I get to them.

Okay, so what if
>When units are in their Normal state and fail a generic fear Will check they enter Shaken state for 1 turn, unless they have any special clauses or a different effect is specified
>When unit enters the Shaken state they can move but nothing else, limited activation rules apply
>If they fail a generic Will check (-1) when Shaken they enter Panicked state for 1d4 turns. If Dread lowers or their Will is buffed sufficiently, they become Shaken or Normal afterwards.
>When units enter Panicked state they enter fear states appropriate to the unit. No activation possible. All units have the default state that they enter on the 1d4 temporary Panic. If Panic is achieved by Dread, they roll Will (-2) for specifics, where applicable (usually 2: bad and extra bad). Not all units have multiples, this will be somewhat rare. Only any special effect Will checks are made by Panicked unites besides that.
>Broken is only achievable by staking Dread. Broken units are out of the battle. That can mean different things. Some can recover afterwards, some are essentially dead, some enter one final frenzy etc. It depends on the unit and a final Will check (-3) is rolled to determine (usually 2: recover or die)
>All breaking points for each state are marked on the card.
So, limited activation: one Shaken per turn, Leadership roll determines or fixed value tied to Leader determines? Could also just make multiple Shaken activations an individual Leader gimmick.

>>88936242
OMG PEARL PRINCESS MILKIES
TITANIUM QUEEN MOMMY MILKIES
TITQUEEN MILKIES

>>88936361
and that's how you get sent to the slave pits

baron phosphorous's slave pits, btw

>Corpses and fire in the background
>Soaked in blood
>Two Atlans turn to each other
>"Are we the baddies?" one asks.
>"No." the other replies, and promptly kills the traitor.

>>88936455
>"Yes!" the other replies and smiles. "By any means necessary!"
>"The Heavens will weep, brother!"

>>88936353
To be honest, the more I think about it, the less useful generic Will checks for fear seem useful. Maybe just have specific sources provoke Will checks with specific effects and
only have Dread as the 'generic' source? I.e. greek fire or spooky terrain would only realistically make you run away from it, unless you're some crazed berserker who forgot his flight response and just gets angry at everything.

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>>88914775
You fucking guys really didn't write shit in the rule doc for the last 10+ days?

Ok add this to the next thread. Are we doing HP and damage, or Wounds and Armor saves?
>HP and damage
unit has 10hp and 5 Armor. Enemy rolls to hit. Unit gets hit with a weapon. Weapon does 1d8 damage and has 1 AP. enemy rolled an 8. The unit takes 4 damage and is left with 6hp. Armor remains 5 cuz it would be too much to book keep for every unit.
>Wounds and Armor saves
Average unit has 1 wound and Armor stat of 5. Enemy attacks, rolls equal to his shooting stat (bad roll low damage, still a hit tho). The hit is a scratch (2 scratches = 1 wound). Unit rolls an armor save. Needs to hit 5 or lower. Rolls a 7, fail the armor save and take the scratch.

Both could work. W&AS is simpler but HP&D gives you more options. Im fine with both but we need to decide.

>>88937261
We did a ton of work over the last few threads. The answer is Wounds, we have a pretty full system for armour checks and damage.
Rules doc not receiving updates doesn't mean progress wasn't made.

Where ya been, friend?

>>88937261
>Didn't write shit
>>88870408 >>88878086 >>88879513 >>88898350
There've been anons throwing ideas around, I (and everyone else) just didn't get around to formatting for the doc

On topic of Armor, I don't quite like the degrading profile - too much bookkeeping desu.
Having it be static seems alright, makes armored models a big proper threat

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Anyone have the full colonial powers compass?
This is the most recent one I have

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>>88938036

>>88938079
good old perfectly rational volcano sacrifices for profit

>>88936283
Portraitbro, small correction, the Prophet-General/Lord is called Vritravana, R after T. I'm not the guy who came up with the name, but that's how it was originally and I assume it's a nod to Vritra from Hindu mythology, with him having the whole dragon thing going and all. And great work, as always.

>>88938243
Not a problem to update. Thanks mate.

>>88937519
>On topic of Armor, I don't quite like the degrading profile - too much bookkeeping desu.
Reasonable to just scrap durability entirely and just have it be a check to reduce wound severity.

>>88936146
His Radiance would probably cut out the princess’ tongue for referring to him as anything but His Radiance

>>88939701
>His Radiance would probably cut out the princess’ tongue for referring to him as anything but His Radiance

>"Unfortunately for you, Mister Phosphorous, mine is the one tongue you can't touch."

honestly it feems to me more like HIS RADIANCE and Pearl are probably friends who mutually enjoy bloodshed on behalf of the Titking.

Same kind of fun for different reasons.

I like to think Titking's personal relationships are generally uncharacteristically normal, if not wholesome.
He loves his daughter. He just does. No catch here.
Baron is an invaluable general and great company, if a little overbearing sometimes.
Warmaster is actually pretty cool. Whining aside, at the end of the day he performs his duties well and makes sure the King's plans come to fruition.

>>88939931
I think I totally agree with you here. Atlan really comes off as a nation of people who love what they do.

To Britain, "Empire" is a brutal but virtuous business. To the French, its an excuse to fuck everything that moves.

To Atlan?
Well fuck, bud. Its just a mighty good time.

>>88940006
>>88939931
Atlan is really just proof of the old adage “do what you love and you’ll never work a day in your life”.

>>88940288
And an even older adage "have a bunch of slaves and you'll never work a day in your life".

>>88940006
>To Britain, "Empire" is a brutal but virtuous business.
>To the French, its an excuse to fuck everything that moves.
And this is why I’m a US player.

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>>88940346

>>88937519
For 2e, Armour only degrade permanently upon crits (natural 10 on to hits rolls). The pics might not be all up to date. Will work on it tonight.

>>88938079
Much obliged anon

>>88940459
Has the US’ policy on colonization in the setting been explored? Given the changes to the timeline, I wonder how the sinkings would affect the Monroe Doctrine

>>88939931
Hes a bit of a traditionalist, especially regarding the walls, and he has been a bit off ever since the queen died, but he's a wise and benevolent ruler loved by his people and respected by his foes.

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>>88940713
>and respected by his foes.
that's an odd way of saying "absolutely fucking feared and despised by his foes."

>>88940713
>Titking is just Dominic Toretto in a suit of armor

>>88940713
I would argue he's a great reformer. His slavery reforms were downright revolutionary. Now every slave can earn their freedom and every free man can lose theirs! Truly, the Atlan Republic is a land of opportunity and meritocracy. Coincidentally, his reign saw unemployment become a thing of the past. He, ever the egalitarian, would've also pushed through mandatory female military service, if it wasn't for those meddling courtiers and generals with their nonsense about birthrates.

Did anyone else play that Expedition RTS that came out in the early 2000s? I don’t hear a lot of people talking about it, but it was really good and deserves a remaster.

>>88940934
I only played the DOS games (Lee-Dehr bless)

>>88937519
>>88938477
But it's, like, just triangles on the card..?

>>88937519
>>88937261
There's also my "Rush for the center of the Earth" campaign mode which I'm still working on.

>>88941416
>But it's, like, just triangles on the card..?
Durability is also an important balancing factor imo. Some weapons just won't be able to punch through armour, so being able to shred it down with repeated hits is the only option they have.

>>88941416
I mean, until we playtest, note down his opinion, but I think any "material" criticism which isnt immediately obvious should just be set aside for later.

>>88934527
Yeah, Mercs are a must, as well as underground critters. The problem with La Ombre is that the intended limitation in the lore doc is that you can only take 1 model from each faction (probably not Lemurs, tho, idk) so we might want to wait for next wave to make it worth it.

even though there's a meta joke with it being too long since the devs kept adding to it, i think we should really shorten down the name of this. EXPEDITION: AGARTHA DESCENT: Scramble to the Center of the Earth is a huge mouthful. i think "Scramble to the Center of the Earth" alone has a great ring to it but "Expedition: Scramble to the Center of the Earth" also helps it feel more like an actual brand with a unifying title.

agartha descent is a cool historical reference but it feels largely irrelevant outside of that, though i wouldn't mind keeping it and just snapping off the expedition part instead.

>>88941772
COWARD.

>>88941772
I would drop Descent.
'Expedition: Agartha' for short. 'Scramble for the Center of the Earth' is more like a subtitle. Like 'Of Steamworks and Magic Obscura'.

>>88942150
Why not just Expedition?

>>88942183
Why not just Agartha? Idk. I suppose Expedition alone makes more sense, seeing as how we have Hyperborea set up for the future too. I know, I know, Gano-Ducksworth, whatever, you get what I mean.

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EXCERPT FROM HIT WEST END OPERETTA:
"The Spelunkers of Savile"
(A.K.A "The Gorgs of Greenwich")
>I am the very model of a Modern Major General
>Obliterating Animal and Vegetable and Mineral
>I've fought with Morlock scum and the Kings of far Lemuria
>My countless battles won beneath the sands of great Australia
>I'm well acquainted too with machines new and prognostical
>My traction engine skills are completely unimpeachable
>Auxiliary and Infantry must heed my word and share my views
>Oppose the queen and we shall see that you could only ever lose
At this point in the performance, the famed Greenwich Gorg-Quartet is normally brought in. Unfortunately, they have usually been bribed with copious amounts of food and stink-juice, leading to a rather raucous performance. Splash-Zone tickets sell for quite a premium.

>>88941701
>1 model from each faction
ackshually, the limitation was any model from any faction, but only one of each unit

>>88943047
ahhhh makes sense.
Then yes they could be added in!

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>>88937375
>>88937519
I had some work still do but i'll be free in a couple days. Its nice that you guys did work but no one wrote anything in the doc ffs.
>>88938477
>reduce wound severity
Like flat reduction? Bad idea I feel like. Armor would then go to max of like 4. cuz Scratch = 1 Wound = 2 Crit = 4. sure some weapons could do more damage but at that point its just HP&D with smaller values.
Its ok guys Ill write some stuff dovn in a couple days and then maybe we could get a play test going. Make up more units tho. Like with stats. For reference an average untrained Human should have 1 Wound.

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>>88943834
You’re doing gods work anon. I know I’m ready and willing!

>>88936283
Wicked pixel look on these, anon. Impressive.

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>rules for light/illumination
Firstly, hidden information is hard to do in skirmish wargames unless you're doing some autistic shit. Secondly, I love the idea as a gimmick.
>Light source can be a stat for models. Gives # of hexes illuminated.
>the fucked up factions have darksight, which is the same except other models don't benefit from it
>Doppelgangers, morlocks, and shadow things like the dark, pure humans like the light.
>You're either in light or out of it, no light levels autism.
>but battlefields might be dark, dim, or lit.

>light affects stealth abilities, morale, and weapon range.
>creating a weird meta where ranged units are better against light users, but most dark-enjoyers are melee-focused?

>>88935510
So true. The new flat chested Ashigaru sculpts cannot compare.

>>88941772
The name was added onto every edition.

>>88945325
>>88941772
It's because Expedition was trademarked by some car company, Agartha Descent was the name of some shitty novel written in the 70's, and finally Scramble to the Center of the Earth wasn't trademarked yet. But "Expedition to the Center of the Earth" was.

Threadly reminder Dr. Morrow's catgirl island is canon.

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Made a few Surfacers in Hero Forge. Can you name all four?
Let me tell you, that website's selection of rifles leaves something to be desired.

>>88945307
wasn't Light basically universally agreed to be too autistic and annoying to keep track of to go through with? just make "stealth" units harder to hit, don't try and track light sources and hexes illuminated for your 15 dudes

>>88945819
I vote that it’s flavorful and neat.

>>88945702
>heroforge
There are better places to buy miniatures, and its too limited to be more than a gimmick, and the minis are overpriced and fragile.
>>88945819
I guess lets make a working game first, and I'll try darkness rules if that gets done.

>>88945702
you mean, this website's selection of rifle?
Singular?

>>88945819
>>88946032
Yeah it definitely seems more like an "advanced" rule; possibly as an somewhat controversial splatbook from 2e.

>>88943834
>I had some work still do but i'll be free in a couple days. Its nice that you guys did work but no one wrote anything in the doc ffs.
One anon posted a PDF for a complete (unplaytested / not final) 1st edition ruleset.
Things are in the works.

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>>88914758
Added Discipline as a stat, and also a special that was missing to the Dutch.
>>88906520 was there supposed to be a buff for them? There's only a debuff mentioned in the lore doc.

>>88946355
I think you got Discipline about right
Seems like a stat that would be rather high compared to the rest imo.

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>>88946355
That's what I'm seeing right now. Get buffs in proximity, but get debuffs when other Vrijkorps units die.

>>88945307
You could probably simplify it down a little.
>Unit is either illuminated or not, either WYSWYG with the model having a light source, or having a flippable chit next to the squad
>If you're illuminated, gain bonus to movement, exploration, any other utility checks, but enemies gain a bonus to target that unit
>Darkvision units always get the bonus regardless of illumination, enemies don't get the target bonus
Essentially just a reverse markerlight

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>>88946486
Ah! missed that line sorry.
Also here's a doc with all the "generic" special rules I saw mentioned, I don't think I changed much but obviously if someone suggested something and I messed up please advise.

>>88946752
>2nd Edition
Having put together the 1st edition shit, makes sense for us to work out our ideas on different editions honestly.

Obviously either 4th or 5th "edition" will be the final product, so we can just take the best ideas from both of ours at the end of playtesting instead of having us argue back and forth about which idea should be the only one to include.

goodspeed man, great stuff you're putting together.

although, notably, Hyperboreans are apparently a 5th edition add-on so techno-lobotomy is a bit anachronistic in 2e.

>>88946776
I really think parallel development is a strength here, and anyways in the end all that matters is to get to playtesting with some options. And I honestly love doing this, its a great way to decompress at the end of the day, Plus the setting is awesome. Most involved I've been on a project on this board in a decade.
>>88914758
An anon suggested the aesthetic for Atlantis should be Renaissance Knights, since they had gone through many technological revolutions since Greek times, but I thought Atlan was the heavy armor knightly underground faction and Atlantis was more Greek themed. I'm gonna look into pulling a troop roster for both tomorrow and I was wondering if I could get some feedback on this...? Not that the images matter really but I guess I might as well have an idea if I'm gonna pull some stuff out of my ass.

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>>88946823
Also updated the British with Discipline. Seems from the lore doc that Brits as a whole have good Morale so I tried to reflect that, with them having Discipline just a bit above the French on average.

>>88946889
>Seems from the lore doc that Brits as a whole have good Morale so I tried to reflect that
What are you using for the main Morale damage?
On unit death? Abilities? An extra stat?

>>88946912
Still tbd, but I would probably have it set on unit death, perhaps unit death within x hexes and LOS, but I'm not sure. Thinking also of having your own crits lower your Dread by 1, since in 2nd Ed there is not much point to crits as of right now.

>>88946912
Oh and I'm using the basic >>88916054
proposal for Morale, and it'll be a set 1-5 Dread per model Keyword type, not Silver. No "caps" as of right now, as they can be easily added in later on and we'd probably need to playtest that anyways to get a good feel of the caps. I should be able to whip something up tomorrow on it.

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>>88946823
I say look up late-ish Byzantines for Atlantis and use heavy Renaissance armor for Atlan, because that's what is very often perceived as stereotypically 'medieval' armor anyway.

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>>88946889
I figure the thing that would distinguish the Brit from the French Discipline-wise would be the officier. As in, the British have one uniting type of officier to oversee all their various auxiliaries and whip them into shape.

Unrelated but I think pic related would be a better fit for Garde Republicaine. Insane drip and leave the stilts to the imagination (since those things are probably close to Dishonored Tallboys than wood stilt).

>Skeletal
Instead of "for the rest of the game" its possible this could interact with resurrection.
That is, when the Skeleton dies and is restored, it re-gains its wound ignorance power.
Like, "Ignore this rule until this unit is slain." or something.

Proposal for "N" to be used in place of a number of a given unit is immune to the effects of Morale. Like, say, the Skeletons.

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jump man 1e template updated with Morale and minor adjustments

I'm using roll under for 1e now, with Crits on results of 1.

>>88947322
>Unrelated but I think pic related would be a better fit for Garde Republicaine. Insane drip and leave the stilts to the imagination (since those things are probably close to Dishonored Tallboys than wood stilt).
Agreed, will replace on next iteration, thank you!
>>88947029
Those look sick, thank you!
>>88947378
Yes, I also immediately thought there could be some interaction with "undead respawn" mechanics there. Also, perhaps, if there is the right type of supporting character like a Necromancer for example, units with 'skeletal' drops "skeleton" tokens that can be used afterwards.
>>88947395
Seems like there would be no reason to object, consider it done.

>>88947322
>I figure the thing that would distinguish the Brit from the French Discipline-wise would be the officier. As in, the British have one uniting type of officier to oversee all their various auxiliaries and whip them into shape.
Yeah, I don't see a reason to have Morale set to low for the French according to the lore doc, they seem competent, if completely schizo. I figure they could depend more on their Leader units for Morale buffs while the Brits have an excellent core officer that helps deal with this among other things.
I guess I should put this out for the thread then. My thoughts was
> French : Midrange Discipline (7~8). Buffs mostly from Leaders or directly from Troops profile themselves
> Brits : Mid-Good Discipline (8~9) (accounting for future buffs from Sargent), Lots of morale buffs options everywhere but on the troops profile themselves.
> Atlantis : Varied, low if you mix a lot of Aristocrats and Commoners together, high if you keep them apart.
> Atlan : Varied but set, Mooks have atrocious Discipline and everyone else has an excellent one. Can deal damage to mooks to keep them in line.
> Mercs : Varied but getting good morale requires the right troops and the right leaders, some subfactions have shit morale anyways (Morlocks), some should have their own mechanic (La Ombre).
That's it for the first wave, but obviously it shouldn't stop anyone from suggesting something for other factions. I haven't really thought about it for the rest.

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some additional compacting was done

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I don't care if it was a catastrophic molding failure, the 2e derpsaurs were SOVL.

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Noted updates to rolls to now use roll under with 1s as crits. This was after some consideration, and I went with this for the sake of very fast readability after rolls are made.

Also, Morale is added and did a few edits. Working on units, but its incomplete so I only exported the rules and not unit lists.

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>>88947783
The frills… antenna…feather… bulbs are their most SOVFVL feature! Also Saur rider masks are cool no matter what!

>>88947783
I distinctly remember how fucking mad I got trying to paint the backs of those stupid head feather things. why the fuck did they put them so close to the rider's god damned hand.

i like how with the teased 5e stories the lore went from "A bunch of jolly chaps digging for treasure and building empire in the underground" to "AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"

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but also worth note that "1e" unit lists are coming along. TOTALLY unbalanced, mind you.

>>88947995
I'm positively besides myself!

Assuming that enthusiasts of the older 1st edition might go back and "edit in" newer units and factions to the old rules, should I just do the "current" factions for the unit lists?

>>88940842
Those shortsighted bastards, tricked by the wiles of harlots

>>88947505
Id say mercs should have low discipline on their own and need to be handheld by an officer to be really effective because they're just there for the money

so the real Black Watch is anachronistic, but the Canadian Black Watch traces back to the 1860s lmao
Perfectly fine!

>>88949324
We have like a whole alternative backstory for Black Watch with Malcolm.

>>88949579
Are we still including Malcolm with the british? I thought he was his own thing.

>>88951255
No, Black Watch was partially formed from the ex-Malcolmite rebels offered pardons for agreeing to serve in Agartha, as per the latest additions to Malcolmite uprising lore.

>>88951523
Got it.

We still need to figure out how to handle TERRAIN and the playmap.

>>88949324
OTL Black Watch isn’t super out of date, even considering our alternative backstory for it.

quick bump

>>88952550
There are some terrain rules in the doc, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel here.
A few threads back anon showcased how the game would look with about a dozen models per side, and it seemed like ~20x20 would be enough.

Should the traction engine be able to carry other types of troops? Right now it's worded to only carry privates.
>I want to load up a traction engine with four knights and do a RAMMING SPEED
>Ramming speed is 10 mph if you have half a mile to get up to steam

>>88955607
Have we even worked out proper vehicle rules yet?

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>>88955628
Not at all. I imagine the development chaos will be delectable.

>>88955732
Alright then, fuck it.
VEHICLES TIME.
First question. Are we including Cavalry in these rules?

>>88924535
I think realistically they're still recovering from the cataclysm that affected their trade routes, geography and most importantly society. They have roughly early byzantine scalemail and some limited plate armor, but their most advanced tech is something considered cutting edge when you remove the colonials from the picture, and that's greek fire.

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>>88955752
If we do it’s probably be a simpler version or a unit with two profiles. I imagine with this being a skirmish game our vehicle profiles would have hit locations a la Gorkamorka/RT; to emphasize the limited individual nature of such important and expensive units.

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>>88955752
>>88956162
honestly I think outside of gear-carrying mules, cavalry would be a overtly situational unit as outside of plains, jungles and primoridal marsh bogs, the terrain would be mostly foot deep rocky lakes and tunnels. The closest we got to a vehicle was the British tractor vehicle that was complimented well by a sapper unit that was discussed to be one of the few units to clear terrain for said vehicle. Too bad that all but dissapeared in discussion with later threads. At best I can imagine some horsedrawn cannon or hotchkiss upon a carriage system but other then that New Mu and Atlantis run a monopoly on cavalry and it's only because of their local geographical conditions and culture.

>>88955752
Should cavalry provide a huge boost to troops? I was treating them as equipment earlier, giving a new movement profile, that's it.
Vehicles were put under Warmachines and should have their profile even when they are automatically included in the unit's (see Tiger Brigade).
>>88956162
This can be done pretty easily, yeah.

>>88956724
I assume big boosts would come from Saur type units and more exotic mounts. For “mundane” Calvary it should boost their speed as you said, maybe bonus damage for charges or free repositioning at the most.

>>88956724
I think cavalry should come with a big discipline/morale debuff on enemies, since historically that's what they were used for.

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>>88957847
While that is true, I still feel that sort of tactic fits for larger formation battles rather than a skirmish of individuals.

That’s still one of the things about this game that itches at the back of my head. It feels like it should be larger groups represented by one model, rather than a scrappy band of multiple individuals. Perhaps I’m just not thinking at the right angle, and it’ll make more sense once we get play tests going.

>>88957847
> Whenever a Horse or Dinosaur mounted unit moves in contact with an enemy model, roll d10. If the result is higher than that model's Discipline, add 1 Dread to that model owner's Dread pool.
?

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>>88958776
Considering how Discipline is hovering around a standard of 7-8, they probably need a modifier depending on on how scary the unit itself is.

>>88958770
The issue is basically when making the chart people just came up with ideas on wargame units and didn't orient them towards a skirmish rule set but those were the lodestones for unit development and so here we are.
The Morlock's concept gets it particularity bad in this regard so a couple of us talked about giving them and a few others a 3 model to a unit max limit.

There was also talk of eventually developing a larger scale version of the game but that focusing on the skirmish gameplay first would help in figuring out how things would actually function on a mechanical level before any additional modes are introduced.

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>>88958969
That makes sense. My apologies for whinging, I was just having a hard time wrapping my head around it all. Thank you anon.

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>>88914758
Atlantis troop roster up!
(Note that without having figured out many of the Atlantean weapons like Greek fires and flamethrowers many special rules were omitted)

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>>88960216
>Armorclad
LOOK WHAT THEY MUST DO TO HAVE EVEN A FRACTION OF OUR POWER

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>>88960216
Oh shit you can actually break the Sharpshooters lens? Interesting.

Also Olms, hooray!

Also, I added Black Watch to the original Units dock with a proper Martini-Henry rifle. Mk I is in-era but we could go as late as Mk II without being too anachronistic.

These were shorter-range rifles but well known to pack one hell of a punch. Also, they'er Scottish. Thought it was fitting.

>>88960472
Proposal for a Black Watch ability: Thin Red Line, does not receive extra dread from mounted enemies

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>>88947029
Consider the following

>>88961173
as much as I hate seeing poorly fitted armour, I quite like those seashell-style pauldrons.

Since there were mentions of Fateless Lemurians who are supposed to be defectors/exiles from Lemuria due to disobeying Prophecy, I came up with a couple of mercs who can be useful against Lemuria. Also, given Malcom's Lemurian connection, they would not be out of place among the Lost Men.

>Fateless Warrior
>Prophet rulers of Lemuria follow their divination unquestionably, no matter how bizzarre they may be, and have little patience for explaining themselves to their subjects. Many take issue with the lot assigned to them by Destiny and reject it, making them pariahs and criminals in Lemurian society.
>Basically a Vedic Warrior with a twist
>Passive - "Defy Fate": His defiance has cost him his ability to see the future, but likewise no seer can now peer into his. Immune to any prophetic abilities, including attack rerolls against him or any that would cancel his attacks.
>Passive - "One Man Koryos:" Still gets a bonus when wounded (at least one Hit), but now it's just 1 Strength.

>False Prophet
>While the Warriors are simply people who happened to disobey a prophetic decree for some reason or another, False Prophets are former members of Lemurian seerhood. Their defiance is rooted in a fundamental disagrrement with the Lemurian creed.
>As obnoxious about their faith as regular Lemurian prophets.
>Trained martial artist with high Evasion and Strength, but no Armor or Penetration to speak of.
>Passive - "Defy Fate"
>Passive - "Adharmic Mandala": Friendly units within range can perform a Discipline/Will check to resist any prophetic ability targeting them specifically.
>Ability - "Karmic Fist": Using the heretical cultivation arts, False Prophets can turn the powers of Lemurians gainst them. Can perform a special melee attack that deals Hits equal to amount of Prophecies used by the unit this battle (or Madness points if we use them to count it), no Armor save. The opponent rolls a Discipline/Will check to reduce them to Grazes instead. 1 turn cooldown.

>>88962921
>False Prophet
Since they're exiled for rejecting prophecy, wouldn't this be "Anti-Prophet" or something instead of false prophet?

>>88963002
Fair enough, it's just the first thing that came to mind.

>>88963068
So they have Warriors and leaders. What would the faction be called?
Neo Lemuria lmao?

>>88963115
They aren't really meant to be a faction, just mercs. We have a lot of factions as is."Fateless" is the term that was used in the Atlantean pirate haven lore bit, so that would be their common designation I guess.

>>88963161
Sorry not faction yeah, just like what would they be referred to as Fateless is solid.

>Fateless Warrior
>Fateless Antiprophet
etc. etc.
I like it.

So, Outlanders is an option, but are there any other ideas for what the people of the deep call the surface dwellers?

>>88964571
Surfacers/Surface-born is the one people have been using a lot. Surface-born could be more formal and surfacer less so. With Paris falling in the 60s there's a generation on the cusp of adulthood of people who have been born in Agartha though, and they would hate the first one probably. Could be abbreaviated to 'Facers sometimes. At this point we're deep into slang territory. Another option would be Topsiders or Toppers. Assuming people in Agartha are paler than the surfacers, something like Rosies or Rudders could work. None of these are really mutually exclusive.
Some culture-specific terms would also be approapriate. Atlanteans could call Surfacers "Epigeans", for instance.

>>88964571
>>88965163
Overfolk!

>>88965163
>Atlanteans could call Surfacers "Epigeans", for instance.
Or Epigaians to make it sound distinct from the actual somewhat used term.

>>88965163
>Some culture-specific terms would also be approapriate. Atlanteans could call Surfacers "Epigeans", for instance.
>>88965163
>Or Epigaians to make it sound distinct from the actual somewhat used term.
I like it. Notably, "Outlander" seemed to mostly be the term that Mu used for them. Each faction may have its own term, though "Surfacer" is fine as a general one.

>>88965297
Another option would be Rheans, the logic being that the daughter of Ouranos and Gaia would roughly correspond to the Surface. Or Demetrians, the term that would symbolically distinguish surface humans not merely on the basis of location but also the fact that they didn't/don't follow the Titans and weren't/aren't part of their civilization.

>>88965378
>Another option would be Rheans, the logic being that the daughter of Ouranos and Gaia would roughly correspond to the Surface. Or Demetrians, the term that would symbolically distinguish surface humans not merely on the basis of location but also the fact that they didn't/don't follow the Titans and weren't/aren't part of their civilization.
That's quite a ways more esoteric than Epigean, but I don't mind it either. Esoteric fits well.

Maybe Epigean for Atlantis, Rhean for Atlan?

>>88964571
>>88965163
I like the idea of the Atlan's referring to folks from the surface as Invaders or Trespassers (if they're in Atlan territory of course). I also like the idea that Lemuria uses the phrase Descendant, basicallly pretending all surface societies are descended from theirs.

>>88966578
>Trespassers
lmao actually that's not bad.

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What's the slur that Parisians use for Surface Dwellers who come to their city searching for adventure?

>>88966702
why, "L'emmerdeur" of course!

>>88966702
"Appât à Dino" or something like that

>>88966782
French would most often drop the "L' " as an expletive. Usually, it's kept for "L'enculé".
Also, its "L' enmerdeur", although the typo is endearing.

>>88966934
SILENCE, FOOL!
"L'emmerdeur" is OFFICIAL (italian) French vernacular!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27emmerdeur

>>88966838
>>88966702
>>88966782
Those and L'inspecteur générale des Carrières (this lead to several civilian duals were actual inspecteurs fought back to back the insulter and the insulted and won) , le cataphile (if the surface dweller is here for tourism), tourist, Cochonnet des deux géants/tarés, les bronzés, the sacrificed to Moloch-Baal (aka any expeditions passing by Paris), the priest of Moloch-Baal (any diplomats or italians) bâtisseurs de château de sable...

Updated the doc with >>88870408 's proposal for rules and changed them to a roll-under system.
Tell me if I got anything wrong

I was thinking about cover flat out nullifying hits, so a low-cover would stop leg shots and high cover all non-headshots.
However, because hand hits are lower on the hit table, a higher degree of success is bad when shooting at someone in low-cover.
This could be solved easily by giving melee and ranged different tables or just swapping leg and arm hits in the table, but I'm open to suggestions

Apart from that I think we're ready for a playtest desu

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Napolean Bonaparte's pretender descendant would be unable to be taken in the same army as Leopold II but also unable to be taken with any abolitionists. Radical Centrist.

>>88967623
Napoleon views on slavery is actually a pretty interesting subject (halas screeching on both side make it hard to discuss). At first he has stricly opposed to restablishing it, citing that he would not destroy freedoms offered by the revolution. It was lobbying from people around him and revolt in the colonies (who consideraly irritated him) that made him agree (though it should be noted, in region that ignored the ban anyway). Truth is, he was (in a kind of sad way) rather indifferent to the human or moral side of the issue. Basicly he was, on a philosophical level, opposed to it (thank to a book he read as a officier, from his own words) but too pragmatic to really care. Martinique played a big role there, since it was under the Brits occupation when the ban occured, to it was *technicly* never applied there. Still ended up causing a revolt.
He did ban it again during the 100 days though.
He latter reflected lifting the ban in reaction to the Martinique issue was a mistake, probably as he rediscovered his (negative) views on slavery, wich may or may not have been caused by not liking how the one slave on St-Helena was treated.

He was still rather racist by today standard, but so where most abolitionist.

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>>88967876
>He was still rather racist by today standard,
Well yeah, he's literally an imperialist dictator from the late 18th century. Being a wishy-washy abolitionist isn't so bad in that context, maybe a little disappointing like when you see fat guy eating a tub of ice cream.

>>88968059
>Being a wishy-washy abolitionist isn't so bad in that context, maybe a little disappointing like when you see fat guy eating a tub of ice cream.
Napoleon was too smart for his own good.
A dumber leader would have just fuckin' enslaved the shit out of everyone.

>>88967876
He was insanely racist.
He installed the death penalty for any black man sleeping with a white French woman. Woman was sentenced to taking orders.
This was in response to BMWW horror/erotica becoming popular in Paris.

>>88968103
>This was in response to BMWW horror/erotica becoming popular in Paris.
the more things change
the more they stay the same

Opposite question
what do surfacers refer to deep-folk as?

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>>88966702
'Filles-de-la-Tour' or 'Persinettes' since they come down using the Tower. Coincidentally, les Touristes also has a double meaning thanks to it, though it's not a slur per se. 'Persinette' later morphed into 'Perse' (this one always gives the few Iranians finding themselves travelling to Fallen-Paris a bit of a pause) which in turn morphed into 'Chah', mocking the perceived effetenes of the surface adventurers.
Also if you really want to avoid 'Epigeans' sounding to much like, well, epigeans, you could call them 'Epichthons' instead.
>>88967623
Actually, there's one pretty crucial children about any children Charles might have. Empress Eugene was a Spanish noblewoman and married him after he became Napoleon III. If he never was emperor and just had his brief stunt as a president, I doubt she would. Napoleon IV as we know him, would not exist, like, physically. But he had two more illegitimate children before, Eugene and Alexandre, who are literally whos more or less.
There's also Jerome from the branch family, who was born in the U.S., but enlisted in the French army OTL and fought in pretty much every French war until the end of the Second Empire.

>>88968103
That's rather reasonable, especially for his time.

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>me, doing pixel art, watching historyfags going super saiyan every fucking thread
just glad to be contributing

>>88968121
The printing press has unironically been a disaster on humanity. If no printing press no Mayerling Affair, if no Mayerling Affair, 99% chances there would have been no WW1.
Also, I've read some of those erotica, they are fucking hilarious, mostly because everyone dies in the end in most of them. The buck, the cuck and the queen.

>>88968239
>they are fucking hilarious, mostly because everyone dies in the end in most of them. The buck, the cuck and the queen.
svengali ain't got nothin' on buck breaking French erotica classics

>>88968103
That's not "insanely" racist for the 18th century.

>>88968143
Darkies, mudmen, cave-dwellers, moldy-toms.

>>88968309
For France, yes. In general Napoleon was seen as incredibly prudish and conservative for the times.

>>88968143
Worms, Dirt grubbers, Tunnel Jockeys, Cave Addled Loonies.

>>88968059
>maybe a little disappointing
Shouldnt be too much, since in the end
it was only a bit later that France and Britain got together, decided slavery sucked and that, no, they didnt need anyone else's input in order to destroy it. Quite literally abolition only ever had a chance because French and Brits decided so and forced it upon the rest of the world. At that point the big slavers were Brazil and various African countries.

>>88968143
>General
Neathmen/neathers, mold munchers, trogs
>General Russian, especially tribals
Chudes (yes, really), chudaks, chud', divnyaks (from 'divnyi lyudi'). All derived from Russian/Komi/Ural folklore about a race of subterrean men and roughly meaning some form of "strange/wild men".
>Atlanteans
Greeks (lol), Olm-fuckers
>Atlans
Tinmen, tincans, Freaky Greeks
>Lemurians
Faceholes, airheads, three-eyes, foredolts

Also Atlanteans get abbreviated as Lantans and Lanties.

What's the deal with New Mu and Old Mu anyway?
Mu was a lost continent postulated by the nutty Augustus Le Plongeon and he thought it was a bridge between Egypt and the Maya. James Churchward and Kamehameha lore places it in polynesia. The original Wojak compass as has been noted borrows from Steppe nomads and eldritch horror. They also use victorian diving suits, ride dinosaurs, and "control" morlocks... sometimes. I think Old Mu is deep under polynesia, but the culture and moved west all the way to the eurasian steppe and there became New Mu. Or maybe they have wrapped the globe many times over. Either way, due to the hollow earth and inconsistent lore they don't map to the overworld very well anymore. But they have started fighting back to (or from?) Old Mu, through the US and Japan and Hawaii.

>>88969339
Churchward actually speculated that Mu were the acnestors of the Turks, so it sorta works, unexpectedly.
So let's say a continent once existed in the Pacific, the primitive locals from its steppes were uplifted by the Star Ancestor and went on to conquer it. Then they've expanded into Eurasia and established an empire there until Mu sank and it colapsed. As for whom they were fighting, well, for all we know there could be more lost civilizations who are now truly, capital L lost. But, old as they are, I think they might've played a hand in the downfall of Old Lemuria and were each others' main nemesis, with Mu rising as Old Lemuria was entering its decline.
As for New Mu, they are a front Old Mu use to interract with everyone else, because they for some reason can't do it themselves. Them being at least partially eldritch abominations probably plays a role, but maybe they can't physically go too far from their abode in the deep, barring some exceptions like Tallymen and Revenants. New Mu are humans who serve them, acting as their autonomous agents, possibly not realizing the full extent of the plans they are involved in. Maybe they were actually Fourth Layer Deep-Folk, who were contacted through intermediaries and uplifted in exchange for service, much like the Ancestor once did with the original Mu.

>>88969339
Old Mu is the older more fucked up by the deep portion of their empire while New Mu is the less fucked up portion that acts as their forward face to other civilizations while taking marching orders from Old Mu.
They also exist on multiple layers with the main territory of old and new being separated by two layers while also having colonies on the third layer.
Combine that with the "Every layer was its own era on the surface" theory and that gives them a lot of time and wiggle room geographically speaking.

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>>88969339
>“They came from the sea in their warships and none could stand against them.”
>“They desolated its people and its land was like that which has never existed.”

Perhaps Old Mu were the Sea People? And were finally thrown back into the abyss when Ramesses III repelled them?

>>88968374
Maybe that had something to do with the absolute batshit stuff that was coming out of the French revolution a few decades prior.
He was a reactionary, but post-Revolutionary France fucking needed one. They were nuts.

>>88969339
My headcanon is Old Mu is the source of all myths about gods, titans, etc. a kind of hellish eldritch horror seeking to propagate itself throughout time and space, but New Mu is it's pretty facade to lure unsuspecting people in so they too can worship the Emperor and Empress. New Mu to everyone else is an independent power like Atlan and Lemuria who want trade and overworld clay.

>>88969844
"Sea People" is a mistranslation. It should be read "Sea Monkeys", specifically Lemurs.

>>88967623
> "Louis-Napoleon pacified La Vendie"
Is that an expression? Because la Vendée was pacified (and by this I mean the Revolutionaries absolutely massacred the entire country, literally ordered everything living in it to be killed, even if they were patriots, as an example). The Infernal Columns is usually cited as one of the first or the first modern case of State Terrorism.

>>88969948
The funny thing was that as a young man Napoleon was one of those revolutionaries, one that fought and believed in it fully.
Then ironically after Robespierre got ousted he became fully disillusioned when a cabal of powerful and corrupt but stabilizing persons took over and yet he still bailed them out before taking power himself.

Some times I wonder what that boy living on Corsica hearing stories of those around him, of their fight for independence, what would think of the man he became.

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>>88970164
>la Vendée was pacified
> tfw you read the same people who came up with Liberté égalité fraternité also wrote the letter of instruction condemning an entire section of their country to be massacred, and the only reason they didnt gas them is because they couldnt figure out gas works better indoors. Then the whole thing degenerated so much that generals preferred to get guillotine rather than be put in charge of that mess, until they forced the father of the guy who wrote the Three Musketeers to do it, and after a few weeks spent executing his own troops managed to turn the whole thing around.
Of note, Thomas-Alexandre Dumas was a black French nobleman of great renown before Napoleon's time. Obviously he clashed a lot with more conservative Frenchmen of the time, but he also distinguished himself militarily to the point no one could really question him. One report wrote that he once charged an entire line of prussian soldiers with only an axe and a sword in hand and that the sight alone was so terrifying that the Gorms dropped their LOADED guns and surrendered immediately.

>>88969948
>They were nuts.
I, for one, quite enjoy how they completely fucked over the US and managed to turn their economy around despite taking the most retarded possible economic actions, apart from stealing every US merchant ship they could get their hands on.

>>88961047
Will add next time!

>>88970164
>>88970399
No, he's being quite litteral. Napoleon really did put a end to the mess in Vendée by reaching a peace agreement with the insurged. He gave reparation and indemnisation, built a new city to serve as the local capital, put an end to anti-clericalism and ensured freedom of religion. He still didn't recognize the legitimity of the revolt (as it would mean considering the actions of the Revolution/Republic criminal), but he had some admiration for (part) of the vendea insurged.

So yeah, he unironicly pacified the region, it was mostly to stop the bloodshed (yes somewhat ironic for Napoleon I know, but it would not be the only time) and to try and sweep the whole affair under the rug, but still.

>>88972139
Ah! Didnt know, thank you very much.

What portrait next?
Thinking Nameless Khan to finish off the "Big" leaders.

Does anyone have that short story written in one of the earlier threads?
Forgot to save it.

>>88974439
Under recommended reading in the lore doc.

Got a idea to try an deepen the lore of the frog Agarthan Science Institute since it's mentioned several time but never explained, I'll try to get at it once I'm home.

>>88974642
>Got a idea to try an deepen the lore of the frog Agarthan Science Institute since it's mentioned several time but never explained, I'll try to get at it once I'm home.
NIce

quick bump

We should probably start bringing the separate ideas together and working on a more official "5th edition" soon.

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>>88976534
>5th edition
Please no. 4th was already a shitstorm with all the waifus it added.

>>88976559
THINK OF THE GRORIOUS SATSUMA STEEL, ANON!

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>>88974642
>>88974894
Alright, so, I changed the name a little to fit better with OTL things, into "Academy of Agartha Sciences"
>In 67, as work on the Eiffel Tower come to a end, the French governement realise their existing organization are too ill-equiped to deal with this new world
>The flora, fauna, even the minerals, everything seem to have some strangeness that defy previously known rules, and this is without getting into the weird beings and surnatural things discovered
>As a mix of panic and fascination for the occult is renewed like never before, running like a wildfire in all of France, in a passionate speach before the Assembly, Henri Poincaré and Jean Perrin offer to create a special office, dedicated to start the gargantuan task of creating what appear to be a whole new branch of sciences
>After heated debate, that saw at least three demand in duel, decision is made to create the sixth Academy of the Institute of France : the Academy of Agarthan Sciences (Académie des Sciences Agarthienne)
>It's mission is to create the necessary discipline, catalog the new discoveries made underground, understand this strange world and find ways to exploit it, all in the name of progress (and of French interest) of course.
1/2

>>88976856
>It has since grown into a rather powerfull organization and while it's official delving operation are rare, it regulary sponsor other expeditions.
>Being one of the more diplomatic french group, it is willing to support even expedition from other nations, with money, informations, advice and even some of the latest creations, out of the laboratory of it's members (though they insist that their performances be stricly documented). In exchange, they demand part of the artifacts or other new discoveries be given to them, and for information on the depths to be shared. Expeditions leader who fail to respect their engagement have developped a tendency to meet "tragic stalactite fall incidents".
>They are also willing to trade or barter for interesting finds from bellow.
>While they share the normal building with the other Academy, they also make extensive use of a new "inversé" building, built in the roof above Paris.

>>88976856
>a mix of panic and fascination for the occult is renewed like never before,
Convenient that the era is very well aligned to the first "Sceptic" anti-occult movements bent on rejecting spiritualism lmao.

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Here's your 5th edition French troops.
Women were a mistake.

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>>88976920
>>88976856
That's it, just tried to adapt it so it would could integrate with elements from OTL and provide something for the game.
I think having this semi-neutral patron (for campaign format) who's willing to lend you money, informations and gadgets (that they are probably field testing using you) for your expeditions at a cost when you come back up sounded cool.

>>88976987
>Women were a mistake.
blame God for that one

>>88976959
>Local spiritist assault renowed sceptic, screaming "AHAH, I WAS RIGHT ! RIGHT !"

>>88976856
>>88976920
While I don't oppose anything written, it would be nice if there was a predecessor organization that was created ad hoc to deal with the immediate bizarreness of Post-Fall France.
Sort of like an adventurer's guild. "Go kill the rats in the basement and bring me the corpses" type thing.

>>88976559
>>88976987
Which Heiress/Thunder Moles player hurt you, anon?

>>88977019
I think the scream of the day would be closer to
>AHHHH I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW HOW RIGHT I WAS

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>>88977035
It's not historical. Women shouldn't be on the battlefield in the 19th century and a hollow earth shouldn't change that. I mean look at this shit.

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>>88976534
Isn't the doc the de-facto "5th edition"?
Speaking of the doc, are we missing anything vital for playing?
The bare minimum is done desu.
Except cover, methinks you could have it work as a to-hit modifier or a bonus to location armor (e.g. a waist-high cover will give you a bonus against a shot to the leg, but not to the head)

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>>88977051
>This kills the anon

>>88977153
>That story has been proven inaccurate: Napoleon I never distinguished a woman with the Legion of Honor

>tfw the time period puts us at the twilight hours of the Wild West
>not a single rootin tootin native shootin cowboy unit, the closest is the prospector
I am ashamed of my fellow burgers

>>88977188
Well boy howdy that does sound like a great unit for America doesn't it?

>>88977175
There's only so many pictures of the woman on the internet. Besides, she did actually fight at Jemappes and, despite being a B*lgian, she was made a sub-lieutenant.

>>88977205
It does, only problem is I’m stuck at work, so it will be a bit before I can cobble something together

To build on the Atlan vague Mesoamerican connections. Assuming that the Nahuatl 'tlan' that means 'land' is connected to 'Atlan', they could also implement it in their name for the Surface. By mashing -tlan with a suitable Greek prefix like ekto- (outside), ana- (up, above) or meta- (beyond), we get someting like Ektlan, Anatlan or Metlan. The surfacers could then be named ektlans, anatlans, metlans etc.
As for epigaians/chthons, it's a bit of a mouthful. They could just be named epions or epians maybe, with stuff like Rheans/Demetrians being more formal.
>>88977051
>>88976987
>>88976559
Parisians and Satsumans probably had to occasionally field women due to manpower shortages after the fall, which made it more acceptable. One of those many things that shock the surface French.
>>88977115
I think it was supposed to be 4.1.

>>88977029
I think that's what the Tiger Brigade is supposed to be, milita/cop who beat the shit out of things they don't understand, (o)cultist, deep-drunk hobbo and all that.

Anyone making new thread?

>>88977661
On it

>>88977661
NEW THREAD
>>88977888
>>88977888
>>88977888

>>88977898
Wew, just in time anon, I was about to make a second thread

>>88977918
And to think I nearly got you.

Archived
https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/2023/88914758/

>>88977051
>It's not historical
> you shouldnt send women along your settling colonial expeditions.
Lol, that's literally why the French only inherited Quebec in North America.

Last for Gorgs!