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>>89200203
>TL;DR Doc (WIP) - This needs a bit more fleshing out
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LxdaGoBlJRTMuziMDupG5TeeFwNDnsIW2pfaRAcFDgA
> Lore Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bRrxdD1BMLmcMDFeszwqg2Rcjrt8DDo7tjAxoOB6KQ8
> ?4e? Rules Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/14ZpHhEyUbjt-SCx2xuAd0lyh7Rs4J7rK5kHkljqykhk/
> Unit Spreadsheet - Currently outdated, requires an update
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rcleQtrT4Q0INiBW50-kq2ZXWJ-cjLOeVTLTJg_oX5E
> Unit Design Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n0X89OdMPXJKQGm6kYcOABjhjE4NZER1fvmpDmDX1JA

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REJECT MODERNITY
EMBRACE GORG

At any rate, as I mentioned I've been busy, but I should be able to get back to finishing the 1e unit lists this weekend or maybe sooner.

Also looking forward to kicking off some of the 2e games, huge thanks to the anon that's been putting all that together.

I actively reject anything that involves wojaks, frogs, or any other dead memes from other boards.

>>89202437
>god damnit there are things I don't like in this thread.

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>average Bulgarian after the Necropolis Event

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>>89202437
>I actively reject anything that involves wojaks, frogs, or any other dead memes from other boards.
lmfao imagine posting THIS on 4channel

So, any units we may beed before playtest? French and British medics, engineers and assassins wouldn't be out of place. Also how would medics work? Downgrade wounds by 1 tier? How limited should their ability to treat units be? What do we do about stealth?

>>89203100
I don't think we need additional units for a playtest. We can honestly playtest with just basic fighting men, and work in additional units as needed later.

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>>89203100
Strictly speaking, we don't need anything else. I need to start cleaning shit up and putting things together and have 2e presentable in a single doc.
If you want to make Faction specific Specialists tho go 100% for it. Here's what I went with as reference. I've tried to keep them relatively "weak", so that they are simply small tools to slightly modify your force, not models that can rambo the shit out of the opposing force.
While this is not fully necessary, I think we should try and work out Warmachines and Vehicules in soon too. An Anon last thread indicated he wanted to actually build a British force with an Armoured Traction Engine. That's based beyond belief and I believe we should do anything we can to support his dream. Plus Minister Eiffel is kinda neutered without one.
I think we'd only have the Traction Engine and the Tiger's Brigade car (I assume its a Renault type EK, the series used 7 different cars over the seasons) to work out.
We shouldn't halt expanding the rosters just because we are hitting playtest, as long as there ARE indeed people playtesting. Its the mechanical phase of playtesting, where we check if the rules makes sense and are fun and if not what can we improve there... This is not a balancing playtest were we have to "close" development so to speak.

>>89203543
>While this is not fully necessary, I think we should try and work out Warmachines and Vehicules in soon too.
That's a good point.
Are they going to be Campaign-mode only? Perhaps having multiple "Theatres of War" where battles are EITHER fought with war machines OR infantry, not both? That's a possibility.

>>89203561
I'd like to get feedback from anons who might be into kitbashing on this one too, if only because there's the issue of scaling vehicule models on an hex map.
Ideally I'd like to have them be a straight inclusion, you can put them on any battlefield if you pay to put them in your warband, they might not be ideal for the map tho. Especially for Vehicules like the Tiger Bridage's car, where its inclusion is kinda essential to the unit's theme.

>>89203744
>I'd like to get feedback from anons who might be into kitbashing on this one too
A good point. I'm not into that side of things so can't comment there.'

Large units don't work very well on hexmaps in general, mind you. Possible that a different implementation might be helpful.

>>89116148
Do you think you could post the stories in the new thread, they can't be accesed in the archived threads on sup/tg. We should probably try include them in the lore doc.

>>89204073
The lore doc also has thread links to some other PDFs. I don't have google so I can't upload them to a permanent doc link, would be good if someone could do that.

so, assuming basically everyone in Paris at the time died during its collapse (I can't imagine anything else), the Fall of Paris really should be a major tragedy in the setting shouldn't it be?

>>89204195
>the Fall of Paris really should be a major tragedy in the setting shouldn't it be?
Probably on par with the Lisbon fire/earthquakes/floods of 1755 in terms or Era-redefining catastrophy, yes. Lisbon became entirely schizo for quite a few years after, and the widespread publicity of the event is claimed as a turning point in the philosophical/historical definition of Evil, away from the framework of Providence and toward accidental absurdity/meaninglessness. Could be similar.

>>89199237
> What does Strength do in 2e?
Currently modifies the Armour Save of an attack's target every attack, and Criticals (natural 10) make that modification permanent, as well as being planned to be used for other actions. Its one of the aspects of the system I'm the least happy about, mostly because its weird to have Criticals result as such. 2e started as an answer to "how does attacks/damage work?", and I was given some pretty strong constraints over the number of rolls & steps (aim for 1 roll, 2 at most), and given I wanted to work in
> Does it hit?
> Where does it hit?
> Is Armour involved?
> Is it modified by armour piercing?
> What type of damage it deals?
> How many?
Its the best I could come up. Since we are/have shifted to roll under, and I needed to do some work to include Evasion and shields anyways, I was hoping we could reopen this for discussion. Say
> A face to face (skill vs evasion) roll to determine if and where you hit. If you Crit (roll target number) here you deal 1 additional Wound and remove 1 Dread per default.
> A strength based roll (perhaps face to face? not sure) to determine wound severity and if armour is devalued for this attack. If you Crit here you permanently lower the target's location armor.
> Armour Save, *IF your armour save doesn't go over 10+ once modified*. Given how shitty many Colonial armour saves are, and how good their own ranged weapons peneatrate armour, you will very often skip this step, meaning in many case you don't actually add complexity to the process in comparison to the previous proposal. A previous issue with 2e was an expected relatively low value of armour in comparison to hit boxes, and I think this might preempt this.
Feedback appreciated. I am warming up to the idea of roll under if we can use it well. Same with replacing Arms/Legs with Extremities.

>>89204195
Oh, it's definitely a major tragedy, but the Parisians didn't die. Well, a lot of Parisians died, but not all or even necessarily most of them.

>>89205301
Yeah I also think its funnier/more schizo that way. The buildings cracked but most stood, there had to be repairs, and things shifted places, but most casualties came from chunks of the walls falling unto hapless citizens as the layer came down, and the general panic.
Its a different story for the poor indigenous underworlders that had settlements where Paris fell, however.

>>89205403
>Its a different story for the poor indigenous underworlders that had settlements where Paris fell, however.
how the gorgs got deleted
i cri every time

>>89204195
>>89205301
>>89205403
I imagine a lot of Parisians are actually straight up Dutch/Belgian and Parisian French might sound a little like Waloon at this point.

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>>89205915
>B*lgian

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Aight, here's my take on Tripbro's proposal. Hopefully he shows up, since he invented Nu-Italy in the first place and I'm somewhat inclined to defer to his judgement. But in the meantime, do tell if you have anything to add or amend.
Some notes:
I reused the monarchy being "imposed" on Italy bit from Tripbro's earlier version as it would more suredly be seen as a betrayal and provoke a civil war. It's not "imposed" anyway as it was mostly an excuse for the Vulcan Lords to cement their power.
Italy is just Italy, I think that's for the best and we have the Third Sicily for the memes anyway.
Bourbons in France - I figured that if we're using them anyway, we might as well use them earlier, as the Party of Order held the majority in the parliament before Charles L.N.B. purged them OTL. Surface France after the Fall could then be briefly ruled by a dictatorial Regency ruling in the missing Henry V's name, propped up by the British until Paris is rediscovered. The revolution that happens afterwards would happen for a pretty good reason. Both the king and his Orleanist heir Philippe died in the Fall and the Regency is an externally supported dictatorship, with this support vanishing after the Malcolmite Rebellion starts.
Mazzini - He just doesn't really strike me as someone who'd tolerate any of this fuckery.
Garibladi - I kept Volcano Garibladi because I find it fun, though I have nothing against normal Garibaldi fighting in the U.S. Civil War instead. But if we do keep Volcano Garibaldi, I imagine him as a secret merc hero/leader you can unlock over the course of the campaign by meeting certain objectives like freeing slaves, fighting Italians and/or meeting the man himself (I based this on one anon's pdf-proposal to have random something akin to encounters on campaign map).

>>89204639
>Lisbon became entirely schizo for quite a few years after
Do you mean the Pombaline architecture? That's a lot of mistakes in the word "kino" there, if so.

>>89208339
No, more that every religious zealot in the area used the Sebastianist prophecy to justify starting their own doomsday cult.

2e anon reporting, tomorrow is a huge day at work so I probably won't be able to post at all until late at night, just fyi.

>>89209988
Godspeed mate. Relax a bit if you need to.

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>the only mary sue the entire playerbase can agree on

how can we stat her? how broken should she be?

>>89210384
She's definitely some kind of buff-oriented character. It's less that she is OP herself as she makes other units (especially those damnable moles) just ridiculous.
>>89205301
>>89205403
>>89205915
Honestly? I think we should make Paris freakier. It's been underground, changing in ways that the surfacers don't understand. Maybe after the fall, there were actually MORE people living in Paris than before, despite all the deaths. The urban sprawl has only grown, more and more buildings springing up to accommodate the burgeoning population. Parisian slums could be an entire area type, giving us opportunities for urban combat in some forgotten part of the city.

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>>89209988
Take it easy my guy. You do what you need to do. We appreciate your hard work.

Unit anon here! although now there are many lovely folks working on the unit doc. I apologize to ya'll for the great delays in editing and new units, as life has taken a bit of a heavy toll on motivation. I try when I can to make/add input. My thanks to anyone who has picked up slack in other parts of the doc in my absence! cheers.

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>>89210743
you're doing Atlan's work anon, thank you

also, should there be some sort of rivalry buff/debuff mechanic? where specific characters get buffed when their rival appears in the opponent's force

>>89210384
>how can we stat her? how broken should she be?
Considering she's supposed to cheese with Thunder Moles, and Thunder Moles have an ability that they can link to make lightning walls between them, perhaps some hybrid Movement Speed + Ability Range army-wide buffs?

>>89210743
Hey man, I've been busy like crazy lately too. We're in a slow patch, all good to take a break with the rest of us lol.
Fucking props to 2e anon for keeping something chugging while a few of us take breaks for IRL stuff.

>>89211135
I don't think she's "supposed to", I just think you can cheese with Thunder Moles in general and it just so happens that Mary Sue + Thunder Moles is an infamous combo.
We should avoid pre-writing the game's meta, and instead assumed it formed naturally.

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>>89203543
What about an earlier version of the Motor Scout as a lighter and more mobile counterpart to the Traction Engine?

>>89200236
Wait there are canon gugs now?

>>89210384
make her obnoxious to even wound. Ability to have more dice on being shot at, attacked, debuffed, etc. and if she succeeds the roll, she keeps that one dice but may only have one extra. Add to that a leadership aura that adds a single dice for a specific unit of the player's choosing and you have a hitsquad that won't fucking die. Not to mention when the unit you chose dies, you can place the new +1 on another group.

>>89204100
Thanks, most of them are here, but
>The Price of Pearls
and
>When Rangers Walk to Hell: The Autobiography of Western Ranger James Green. Pts. 1-3

Aren't there, they just lead to a 404 cause they were 4chan links. We should turn the other stories into pdfs so they don't get deleted when 4chan drops them

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>>89214156
got Pearls here if anyone can set up a doc for it

>>89212118
>I don't think she's "supposed to", I just think you can cheese with Thunder Moles in general and it just so happens that Mary Sue + Thunder Moles is an infamous combo.
By "supposed to" I mean from a meme perspective, as in her abilities should work well with whatever Thunder Moles end up being.
Not "supposed to" in the actual faction paring in game lore perslective.

>>89214156
>>89214599
Check if it works now pls.

>>89214791
Works fine on my end. Wasn't around for the thread when Rangers 1-3 was posted so I don't have it saved.

>>89214599
Ive uploaded it as a google doc, don't know how to change the colour so it matches the aestheic though

>>89207933
My general feelings:
Everything looks good, I would just iron out some minor details about the Austria-Italy deal plus some stuff about the civil war and the abomination wars/sicilian crusades. The biggest unknown is Garibaldi. Him being a volcano lord potentially makes sense, but at this point what a volcano lord is is ill-defined. Depending on how transcendental they are, it could make sense to keep him a more "mundane" guy. I also like the idea that he never trusted Trani to begin with and thus fucked off to America, but I will defer judgement on this to whoever writes up US lore. I also strongly feel he should not be acting against Italy in Ethiopia, but rather fight for freedom somewhere else. I am also somewhat iffy about having big named characters around in a skirmish game; conversely, him being unlockable in "story mode" makes a lot of sense/is more appealing to me.

>>89210950
As far as I have written, the atlans have a very strong personal component in warfare. where personal glory, reputation, and the ability to strike fear or adoration because of your attributes is core. for the characters, at least. so I think gloryhunting for showing up their rival is quite a good idea given that victory over them gives one showboating rights.

Titanium Will be upon you, fellow atlan

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>>89214156
Here's the first Ranger part. Slightly edited when compared to the original to fix two minor matters.

>>89217429
>but at this point what a volcano lord is is ill-defined
I imagine they are ageless or at least very long-lived with some variable supernatural powers, usually fire related. From your original description of Pepe, it seems like he more or less died and was reborn during the ritual, so their physiology is likely inhuman and they also probably don't eat, drink and do other human things. While very strong, a Lord isn't really a one man army and Italian success was driven by the fact that they had like 13 of them + witches + mad defensive and terrain advantage. Invading Italy is probably an absolute nightmare, but it can be done. Coincidentally, the moment they couldn't just spam volcano bullshit willy-nilly they lost.

>>89217769
Checks out. With that out of the way, who is writing French, Austrian and American lore? I think some coordination is required to put the finishing touches on Italy. Also, probably the alliance of the faithful should be able to draw upon Sanfedisti as a mercenary units - basically Italians who have not reneged Catholicism.

>>89218234
I don't think we really have people strictly in charge of specific regions, we just discuss ideas and if shit sticks someone puts it in the doc. If someone hates it later or has their own proposal they usually tell and stuff is discussed further. That's how you ended up writing the Three Sicilies pretty much. So, idk, I guess we just wait until someone else says whether they really hate Volcano Garibaldi or really love him.

>>89218234
And also I think the Sanfedisti Italian exiles are straight up part of the Alliance armies, having settled down in Iberia and the colonies, not just mercs. Some Spanish rendition of the Sanfedisti hymn is probably the unofficial anthem of the Alliance. Yes, this is a not so subtle request for any Spanish speaker we have.
https://youtu.be/xid2_oEP5ho

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I wonder how an Agarthan dinosaur tastes.

>>89221874
Probably like chicken.

>>89221874
like chicken

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>>89210425
>Parisian slums could be an entire area type, giving us opportunities for urban combat in some forgotten part of the city.
Apache "cyclop" vs tiger brigades would be a pretty kino matchup, ngl.

>>89202437
Good, anything that gets you tourists to go back.

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>>89210384
I'm hoping this will generate just the right amount of seething.

>>89223322
>Love Interest
I unironically had an idea similar for Guinivere

An ability that costs LP, that allows you to forc an enemy Unit to take an additional Movement, which you control. (Not just a Leader unit)
Honestly fits Heiress more, but I don't like the meta-referencing name you chose for it. A better, more in-universe flavour might be better.

>>89223556
>An ability that costs LP, that allows you to forc an enemy Unit to take an additional Movement, which you control. (Not just a Leader unit)
That would pretty good too, although the way I worded it the Heiress can chose either a friendly or enemy leader, so it doubles as a movement buff (although a costly one) when you need it.
>>89223556
>but I don't like the meta-referencing name you chose for it.
Good thing I didn't go for "Gaggle of Simps" for "Dedicated Fans" then. But yeah feel free to rename, or suggest other mechanics.

>>89223904
>or suggest other mechanics.
I do like the movement one on her.
Maybe a forced extra movement of any ally OR enemy?

Honestly it sounds perfect with Thunder Moles because you can fucking force your opponents to run through the walls lmao. Truly disgusting.

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>>89223918
Better? Seems really OP now.

>>89224068
>Seems really OP now
As far as all the original docs were concerned, the developers made her intentionally OP, possibly to drown the "problematic" characters out of the meta.

... that said, we'll keep it in check after playtesting starts. Maybe have her Taunt come with some way to defend against it?

>>89224068
Also, balance wise, 10 hexes is LONG range.
Might be better to have it short, like 6/7, so there's a legitimate risk to it of having to put your Leader up closer to enemies to use it.

>>89224083
Could work by adding
> If this targets an enemy model, its owner rolls a d10. If the result is below or equal to the targeted unit's Discipline, this action fails.
That way you probably won't be able to target enemy Leaders with it and will have to rely on the Smile, which costs LP.

>>89224119
>> If this targets an enemy model, its owner rolls a d10. If the result is below or equal to the targeted unit's Discipline, this action fails.
If the range is 10, maybe tie the roll result to how far away the unit is?
As in something like, "Roll under the distance from the Heiress to this unit." or something.

Could be used reliably to get melee threats away from her too, in that case. Or tie the LP cost to range?

>>89224068
honestly I would keep the first name of the leadership movement rule, it's first come first serve so you have more then the right to call it whatever you like, after all you're the one making the doc.

>>89224068
I don't think we should worry about balance just yet. We're focused on creating a playable game, and if some things are a little broken then so be it. Also the best form of balance is when everything's broken, and can counter each other with increasingly ludicrous abilities.

I like Italy's lore, I feel like it needs to be fleshed out a bit before anything concrete is formulated though. Making things like Garibaldi and the two Sicilies not happen will start a snowball effect where more and more will have to be explained for major things like italian unification, the battle of Rome, the papal zoauves and such. Plus the fact France would get involved at some point, if for nothing to help peacekeep over the absolute shitshow.

>>89226377
All contributions welcome, mate. We have had a lot of good work done on Italy already, but if you have more thoughts don't hesitate to add them.

>>89226377
>the battle of Rome, the papal zoauves and such
This is mentioned in the document and this is technically the period of the Duosicilian Republic.

Speaking of, I'm starting to prefer normal Garibaldi fighting in the Civil War myself, despite coming up with the Vulcan Lord-in-exile idea in the first place, so unless someone is really opposed, I suggest we go with that.

>>89227765
Garibaldi believed in the original italian monarchy and supported the nobility, allowing a aforementioned noble to take rulership over italy after successfully linking the nation. He would most definitely *not* support an usurper group that would lead to the italian noble class being dismantled or perverted, as he believed in bloodline legitimacy. Immortal lava people sort of goes against that. Not to mention he was a born catholic.

>>89228088
Eh? Wasn't he like a borderline communard republican with some strong anti-clerical views, while still identifying as Christian? Granted, he was not unwilling to back the Sardinian monarchy if it meant free and united Italy. I could see him still working with the Duosiclians, though he'd grow disillusioned pretty fast.

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So that's how it ends, huh

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I'm back on my actual computer, so I have access to my files again. I want to write something about an idea I posited a while ago. Gimme a bit.

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>As a historian of Lemuria, I speak to you now of the great warrior and general known as Bleg.
>Banished from the Peerless Citadel of Ook for his savagery, Bleg of Ook won his fame during the War of the Shikalli Basin. In battle, he was known for his great ferocity and strength, able to crush even the famed Atlan defenses through sheer force.
>Bleg is known by many names. Long-Walker. Gorg-Eater. Coin-Taker. He has earned perhaps the most fear and respect of any Condottiero, and it was no surprise when he turned his mind toward the pursuit of higher glories.
>It is one thing to defeat a foe, it is another to convince him you are his best chance at survival. Bleg has led his followers into the bowels of Shikalli three times, for three different nations. He has fought for every crown beneath the vault of the ceiling. He has devoured every race of man.
>When the unenlightened masses came from above, there was one among their number who quickly came into Bleg's acquaintance. A disgraced king without a nation, a foe of the British who kept among his court-in-exile a disgraced prophetess of Lemuria. A master of mercenaries, not unlike Bleg himself, save for the way in which he maintained a level of civility.
>Bleg has no patience for civility, or for the mewling of sedentary folks. In some ways, we must assume that he found a kindred spirit in this exiled king. Or, at the very least, he sensed an opportunity.
>Bleg and this king forged a pact. They exchanged letters at first, and then contacts. Their methods were abhorrent to each other, but there was a necessity in their interaction.
>Bleg became the first of the Condottiere Lords to begin making contracts not only to serve surface masters, but also to hire on soldiers from above. Soon, he was buying firearms and cannon from the surface, outfitting an honor guard of his most trusted Ookian brethren to fight in the ways of the surface.
>Bleg intends to return to Ook some day, and that day will bring a reckoning.

>>89233996
I think most of us are waiting till a ruleset is playtest read at this point.
Plus the American Posters are at work and the European poster generally get on later also.
>>89234762
Ape-Man Warlord aligned with Napoleon, nice.
And I assume Bleg is a mercenary Leader based upon his description?

>>89235304
>Ape-Man Warlord aligned with Napoleon, nice.
More with the Lost Men, intended to be a leader more associated with the brutality of the mercenary life than Malcolm's hero-turned-villain vibes. Though, he almost certainly knows and has fought for Napoleon in the past and will most likely do so again given that La Ombre and the Lost Men are sort-of aligned in purpose.
>And I assume Bleg is a mercenary Leader based upon his description?
Yes, Bleg is a leader who is intended to work with units like Neanderthal Condottieri and other underworld mercs. His fearsome reputation emboldens his soldiers and strikes terror into the heart of all who must face him in battle. His specialty is probably something involving upgrading low-tech units like Neanderthals and Gorgs by providing them with more advanced equipment, purchased or looted from other factions.

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>Chugs a bottle of whisky before outshooting three Atlan springunners and shoving a lit stick of TnT into the Immortal's armor
Yee, and I cannot stress this next part enough, haw.

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>>89233996
2e anon here, earlier this week was launch day for a system I've been working on for 2 years now (I am happy to report that it went swimmingly, at least as far as everything I was in charge of programming), work days are still taking my entire attention because of it tho so I am not posting anything during shifts. I have 10 days of vacation starting on Saturday however, and fully intend on having a clean-up 2e doc done early in it, and hopefully set up a few games.
This will exist. I will single-handedly raid the Demiurge's Reality Palace and rewrite Existence so as to force it's ontological autopoiesis, if necessary.
pic unrel.

>>89236590
>TnT goes off
>Atlan inner armour undamaged
>Explosion contained between two armour layers
nothing personnel, kiddo

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>>89236871
>will single-handedly raid the Demiurge's Reality Palace
MORTAL FOOL. IT HAS ALREADY BEEN RAZED AND SALTED BY THE HYPERBOREAN PAIN WARRIORS. NOTHING BUT DUST REMAINS FOR YOU TO SEIZE HAHAHAHAHA.

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>>89237020
>Dust. Nothing but dust.
>Shall I build castles in the sand, ever washed away by the tide?
>What is it all for? What does it matter if my legacy will be forgotten with the passing of my people?
>Is Humanity truly doomed?
>No...
>Even if it is mere dust, I shall build my castles of sand. I shall kill the tide if I must, all to preserve what we have.
>I must.
>I must...
>Dust...

>>89233996
1e anon here, I've had some brutal long and hot work weeks and don't want to think about anything when I get back. Planning on picking things up this weekend.

Seems like several main anons have had some IRL stuff over the past weeks. I've still been poking in when I can to keep the thread healthy though, just haven't had time to contribute.

>>89236871
>This will exist.
Hell yes, brother. Wish I had more time to work on 1e lately. Sounds like we both hit similar situations.
Great to hear the your systems launch went great. Shit like that can be stressful.

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>>89237071
>Seems like several main anons have had some IRL stuff over the past weeks.
My laptop had both fans crap out. I still haven't fixed it, but I've gotten a temporary solution in place. I'm dying to write some stuff.

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>>89237087
>Hell yes, brother.
HELL YEAH BROTHER
HEY EVERYBODY, WHAT'S THE FACTION YOU THINK ABOUT THAT NOBODY ELSE EVER TALKS ABOUT? MAIN FACTION SUBFACTION DOESNT MATTER I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DYING TO BRING INTO THIS HELL OF A WORLD

>>89237089
lmao yep, so several anons have been busy or had shit to fix. I finally have a full two-day weekend off coming up so I'll do my best to hammer out the 1e unit lists on Sat/Sun.

>>89237103
>HEY EVERYBODY, WHAT'S THE FACTION YOU THINK ABOUT THAT NOBODY ELSE EVER TALKS ABOUT?
Mu gets very little discussion honestly. Seems like it will always be a niche faction for MoreLock cheese and the rare, ultra-kino degenerated steppe warrior armies.

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>>89237127
It's funny. They were one of the earliest Agarthan factions, and Mom Unkown & Pop Nameless posting was going strong for a bit. I really thought they would have more lore by now.
Be honest with me. How many Mu jaks did you contribute?

>>89237157
>Be honest with me. How many Mu jaks did you contribute?
you shut up
luv me mu
simple as`

>>89237173
Based.
Tell me, was the "atlans" supposed to mean Atlanteans? Neither existed at the time, as I recall.

>>89237189
i have no fucking idea it just happened naturally

>>89237127
>>89237157
I can only give my own perspective on this but I think they suffer from culturally dissonant aspects of their identity.
So the faction has
>Steppe Warrior origins and military unit aesthetics
>Eldritch nightmare fuel
>Eldritch by implication diplomatic and subterfuge types
>Morlocks
And while that makes it great it basically has three army concepts within it those being Steppe Warriors, Ability Based Infiltrators, and Morlocks (also the closest thing to traditional magic via powers?) tied together by THE DEPTHS and two of those have not been given the attention they need to fully form the idea.
Morlocks came basically fully formed if painful to adapt to the system direction the moment people started taking this seriously.

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>>89237245
Incredible.
>Batur, Lance of the Khan
>Hero unit of New Mu
>Buffs Mu's human units and reduces the penalties they get from fighting alongside their more esoteric entities.
>Fought in many wars, first as a mercenary rider before becoming an honored lancer and Saur rider.
>Was among those who launched an attack on New York, was the first to slay one of the surface outlanders.
>Despises Atlan more than most warriors of Mu, owns a collection of priceless Titanium equipment looted from his defeated foes.
>Has been awarded many honors and titles, even being acknowledged by the Khan himself.
>Has been given the honor of leading skirmishing parties to hunt Outlander incursions into Mu.
>Unbeknownst to him, has been selected by Old Mu to be inducted into their ranks should an opportunity to Change him arise.
>For now, they content themselves to watch as he slaughters their foes with vigor and enthusiasm.

>>89237412
There we fucking go that's the good shit we need to build up MU's identity.

>>89237370
Eldritch beings can't/won't venture too far from their Depths, prefering to act through proxies under their ifluence. The most readily available are Morlocks, but their utility is limited. So they influence the nomadic tribesmen of the Fourth Layer to their own ends, also probing the surface. What if Mongol and Turkic hordes rode dinosaurs and worshipped Cosmic Horrors, basically.

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>>89237463
>The most readily available are Morlocks, but their utility is limited
LIMITED?!
Tch, yeah. Limited by how many of them you can throw at the problem!

>>89237463
>Eldritch beings can't/won't venture too far from their Depths
How far is to far because available limiting units for games that happen on upper layers would be kino but also annoying.

>>89237370
>>89237463
I think we need to think about how these elements tie together.
Morlocks are a slave/servitor race that is largely subservient to Mu, but also exists outside of Mu and definitely isn't loyal to anybody but their own interests.
The Steppe Lancers from Age of Empires 2: Definitive Edition on the other hand, I think they're at least sort of aware of the difference between themselves and Old Mu. They think of themselves as being fundamentally the same group and are willing to fight for their eldritch masters in the name of glory and hatred of outlanders.
The eldritch beings, on the other hand, maybe see the whole setup as being expendable and are willing to cut ties if New Mu turns out to be a bad idea in the long run. They think the riders are useful, but not essential. Morlocks are even less reliable, but their vast numbers and their general pliability (when they aren't organizing around a voivode and rebelling) makes them useful as grunt laborers and fodder. Maybe certain individuals like Tall-Fin are a little more "in on it", so to speak, and are actively collaborating in the subjugation of their own kin?

>>89237496
It's a bit like how in Warhammer, you don't see Khorne himself on the field. There will be plenty of options for various Muic abominations, but big names like the Khan aren't likely to be available except as expeditionary sponsors.

>>89237515
>The Steppe Lancers from Age of Empires 2: Definitive Edition on the other hand, I think they're at least sort of aware of the difference between themselves and Old Mu. They think of themselves as being fundamentally the same group and are willing to fight for their eldritch masters in the name of glory and hatred of outlanders.
I get the sense that they're just totally based, comfy true believers.
>Bro, your king and queen are eldritch monsters.
So? They're our rightful rulers.
>Bro no really, they're being influenced by sinister beings from beyond the stars...
"Sounds like we've been selected by Heaven to me! Now let me see how your red blood shines, Outlander."

Something like that. Completely unphased by postmodernism or critique.

>>89237157
I am the anon responsible for the tallfin, Shaman, and apprentice.
Love my little fish bastards

>>89237496
I don't think it has actual gameplay implications. It's safe to assume the Old Mu units (which coincidentally are stronger but fewer in number) you can use are the ones who can venture far enough and Mom, Pop or anyone of similar caliber are using hosts or projecting.
>>89237515
>>89237562
I second this. The Old Mu are their gods and protectors. Simple as.
Why are they sending the corpses down there? Well, duh, where else would you send your dead if not the realm of the gods?
Why do some ominous looking corpse-like people sometimes come from there? That's just their ancestors coming back to help them. Not something an Outlander would understand.
Morlocks? What, you don't have them up there?

Alright I can contribute a little. I'd say, what I imagine going for with Mu, is described in one word:
>Comfy

Eldritch horrors bent on degenerating all of reality are their leaders?
Great. That means degenerating reality is a good thing. Let's work toward that together! Luv me Mu! Luv me Saur! Simple as!

Morlocks are technically slaves?
Well the Saur Knights treat them more like pets, really. They're loved, fed well, part of the team! All for the glory of Mu!

Totally based. Zero fucks given. "Mu is right, might makes right, and you sorry sons of bitches can cope, seethe and deal with it." type of spirit.
Possibly with a hint of eldritch brainwashing beneath it all... But just a hint.

>>89237690
>They're loved
whorelock lore

>>89237657
>Why do some ominous looking corpse-like people sometimes come from there? That's just their ancestors coming back to help them. Not something an Outlander would understand.
Exactly this, yes.

>Outlander: Dude! You literally live with mutated walking corpses and flesh-eating fish people!
>Mu: And YOU live without the glorious leadership of our great Khan and perfect Mother. Sounds like you pulled the short stick there, bud.

>>89237690
The main funny bit of the Morlocks was that they would rebel constantly. Maybe not part of the team. But more just "Ah, problem children. Acting out against the way of things."
Not really 'pets' and more 'misbehaving children", being the younger of Mu's races.

>>89237772
>But more just "Ah, problem children. Acting out against the way of things."
lmao

>Morlock rebellion sparks.
>A couple Saur Knights look at each other and have a hearty chuckle.
>"Fuckin' Morlocks, amirite?"
>"Right you are, bud."

>>89237786
>Even the Morlocks see it as just a fact of life.

>The following exchange is translated from Morlock Pidgin for your convenience.
>"What's all that yelling about?"
>"I think we're rebelling against the humans again."
>"Ah, must be Tuesday."
>And they both share a hearty chortle before going off to stab some Saur Riders before they get culled.

>>89237813
>Meanwhile, literal gigachad Saur Knights happily cull the morlocks until they get back in line.
The comfiest place on all the earth is deepest underground. Who would have thought...

>>89237772
What if the Morlocks’ rebellious instincts were cultivated as a means of population control?

>>89237823
lmfao they do breed a lot...

>>89237823
>The Saur Riders see the cyclical culling as a way of keeping the Morlocks in line.
>The Old Ones actually designed it as a way to keep the Saur Riders in line through the inevitable casualties they take correcting the Morlocks.
Dear god.

>>89237690
>Morlocks are technically slaves?
>So what? You don't take slaves?
>You... fought your own tribe... because some of you took slaves and some didn't? You Outlanders sure are a weird bunch.
>The former slaves are still treated worse? Well, duh.
>Race? Sure, I'm up for it. But where's your saur?

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>>89237830
THE CYCLE THE CYCLE THE CYCLE THE CYCLE

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>>89237843
It's all so tiring. It must be corrected.

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>>89237837
>Race? Sure, I'm up for it. But where's your saur?

>>89237515
>Morlocks are a slave/servitor race that is largely subservient to Mu, but also exists outside of Mu and definitely isn't loyal to anybody but their own interests.
Morlocks are weak-willed and thus can be dominated by minds immeasurably superior to theirs. Hence their use by the Mu and Napoleon.

What exactly happened to Napoleon during his time in the Muic court?

>>89238344
Inspiration. Collaboration. What DIDN'T happen?

>>89238344
Cucked the nameless khan so hard that he got exiled to the lowest layers

>>89238395
the Nameless Khan does not get cucked, my friend.
But if an attempt was made, Napoleon would certainly be banished.

>>89238344
>>89238373
By looking at history Napoleon's whole M.O when it came to foreign people is to learn as much about them as possible and then try and ingratiate himself into their culture as to better gain control over a populous.
In a non conquering role I could see him "doing as the Romans do" to gain more insight into the secrets of Agartha before reaching an impasse getting frustrated and leaving.

>>89238344
Probably learned more about the cycle and their sorcery, but was left unsatisfied with Muic methods and their ultimate goal. The original Mom text has her condifent that the person she's speaking to won't leave the Palace alive, so if it was him, he was either always trespassing there or he was accepted as a guest but ended up doing something he wasn't supposed to.

>>89237103
sky people are comfy and kino and silly and i'd own an expedition's worth of them if i could

>>89237830
>>89237843
>In the end, both sides take casualties, and both sides offer their casualties to the Old Ones.
>And that's a good thing.

>>89238511
I think it was the leaving he wasn’t supposed to do. The Old Ones sensed something within Napoleon There. In the Dark. and decided they couldn’t let him pursue his own ambitions lest he become a real threat to their schemes. Maybe they tried to Change him, induct him into their ranks, but he resisted it somehow. Through sheer will, probably.

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>Wait, wait, Outlander, could you repeat that?
>I don't think I heard you right...
>You fought a war to FREE your slaves!?
>*Saur Knights all laugh in unison.*

>>89238846
>literally “all slaves should be free” vs “all slaves should be free”
is there a more kino engagement than abolitionists vs saur riders

>>89238511
>>89238842

THE EMPRESS: Ah! You have so many interesting ideas! I think your stay will be pleasant after all. I am sure the Emperor will approve of a new addition to the court, especially one so modern as yourself.

L'OMBRE: Unfortunately, I cannot. I am called elsewhere, to the depths. And I will not refuse that call.

THE EMPRESS: You think to refuse the Mu! None of the living may see us and return. I am afraid you cannot leave this place alive.

L'OMBRE: My dear, I have already died.

THE EMPRESS: Impossible!

L'OMBRE: It is the impossible which drives me on. Adieu.

>>89239368
>L'OMBRE
that's LA ombre to you, outlander.

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>>89239368
>Ah... He was out of my league anyway...

>>89233996
doc anon here, I have my Bachelor's presentation on Wednesday, going to catch up after that

>>89228653
He gave up all his territories in the south to Victor Emmanuel II of Sardinia in the name of unifying Italy, he only became a "republican" in so far that he fought the monarchs of south america, he also only became a freemason shill when he was on his deathbed. I'd imagine volcano lords causing another civil war when he nation was on the precipice of unification would only piss him off more, doubly so if the volcano cultists attack southern italy.

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>>89234762
Personally I like the idea of the Lemurians being the descendants of the indo-aryans. It would explain why they're in India now (lying about being anti-opression when really it's about expanding their influence)

>>89240258
>He gave up all his territories in the south to Victor Emmanuel II of Sardinia in the name of unifying Italy
So what? All that meant was that he thought Sardinia was the best candidate to unite Italy at that point (because it was). There was no republic capable of uniting Italy. It's called pragmatism.
>I'd imagine volcano lords causing another civil war when he nation was on the precipice of unification would only piss him off more, doubly so if the volcano cultists attack southern italy.
In 1848? On the precipice of what? Ferdinand II and the Pope slobbering on the Austrian dick and backstabbing Sardinia? Charles Albert getting wrecked into abdication? Roman Republic being destroyed by the French?

>>89240991
>1848

so you're doing retcons now? god can we please get someone who's writing any of this to not be a historically illiterate burgermutt please?

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>>89240991
>In 1848? On the precipice of what? Ferdinand II and the Pope slobbering on the Austrian dick and backstabbing Sardinia? Charles Albert getting wrecked into abdication? Roman Republic being destroyed by the French?
On the precipice of volcano gods gifting Italians the power of surfboards.
Now get in the slave pits.

>>89242680
We've been working with 1848 POD Italy since forever, I dunno what else to say to that. Could you please explain yourself coherently?

Quick, bump before work.

>>89240319
You still have it backwards, they can’t be descendants of Indo-Aryans because they predate the Indo-Aryans by a wide margin.

Mu has Napoleon, who stayed in their court for some time.
Lemuria has Malcolm, who has an enchantress among his retainers.
Atlantis has King Perseus, whose ancestors came to Atlantis from Crete.
Hyperborea has Cromwell, lost beyond the firmament and turned into a Memory Engine.
What about Atlan?

>>89246904
If we want to complete the set then I propose if he doesn't have an identity yet we make the Warmaster into a figure from history who also made their way down into Agartha, got enslaved, rose through the ranks due to the Titanium King's changes to meritocratic policy, and now is the Warmaster.
Plus it fits just how stressed and sick of the endless war he is, since he is not from Atlan it seems like a nightmare that he is in to deep to ever climb out of.

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The prophecy foretold we would reach page seven...

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>>89243179
>weve
just you, nigger. Funny how the date keeps going back whenever some fanfiction tranny wants to insert something and then pretend that was always a thing. Fuck off.

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I AM FREEEEEEEE.
I'm going to crash down a bit, eat and binge some Farscape, and then I'll get back to working on this.

>>89251282
Oh, also, there are no rules right now for Cooking actions or what they do, since I don't think we want to track feeding your troops, this is what I thought.
> Food is an equipment.
> A model with Food or adjacent to a model with Food may take a Cooking action. (Cooks get bonuses to them). If you have 3 or less Dread, you must have at least one model adjacent to the one resolving for this rule to take effect and 3 models adjacent if you have 4 or more Dread. Roll a d10 + Labour, on a 6+, remove 1 Dread ONCE PER TURN. Remove the Food equipment.
This provides a general tool to mitigate a small amount of Dread. And before someone says its silly to have Cooks setting out campfires and handing out stew in the middle of a skirmish, it is 100% accurate, even small skirmishes could take hours and days to resolve, soldiers can't fight on an empty stomach.

>>89251282
>Pentagram
REEEEEEE SATANISM WE'RE GONNA GET CANCELLED DUDE THIS IS THE 90S

>>89251966
>66
Ominous.
But the hexmap program I use doesn't have that many options for special symbols, sorry.

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>>89251975
>Ominous
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>89237103
China for me, mostly because of a comment wayyyy back in the first-chart days of someone suggesting that Mu props up the Ming against colonial powers. With what is known about Mu now, I feel like that would be such an awesome scenario of Muish teachings of the deepest recesses of the layers corrupting the Qing court, making the nation run efficiently at the cost of perhaps using the massive manpower pools of China and her subsidiaries (korea, vietnam) to fuel Muish rituals, the weak centralization of late qing basically making them the ideal surface puppet for the nameless khan and his ambitions, a court that they can keep dumb and happy on parlor tricks and aided administration, and a population too massive and too blind to their nation's inner workings to give a damn about their involvement much less know. Could very well tie into their invasion of Japan, perhaps trying to force japan into the same box as China, except japan is far stronger willed and centralized.

>>89252674
Qing*

>>89252674
>Chinese/Indian proxy war, backed by Mu and Lemuria
>Japan says "fuck all of you" and refuses to side with either power
kinda based, glory to satsuma

>>89253196
>Have saurs
>can actually race Mu Saur Knights
Satsuma v. Mu saur chariot races need to have some alt ruleset or be some kind of side game eventually

>>89254289
>Warhammer has Blood Bowl
>Expedition: Agartha Descent has Wacky Races
unbelievably based

>>89251513
I'm not sure tracking not dying of hunger is THAT bad of an idea for an expedition game Still think it would make more sense for stuff like Cooking to happen on the campaign map, that is, between and outside of engagements.

>>89254343
Yeah, I agree. Skirmishes IRL can wind up taking days, but battles in gameplay should mostly represent sudden outbursts of violence in the otherwise quiet depths. Short, bloody affairs where men die for the sake of a few meters of cave.

>>89254313
>You can use Armored Traction Engines
>So slow you can't beat anyone through speed
>Their single purpose is to eliminate the competition before they get out of range

>>89254524
>They escape the first volleys
>"Don't worry lads, they will lap us before the third bend, get those cannons primed!"

>>89254313
>War on Third Layer comes to a screeching halt, as the opposing sides keep challenging each other to saur races across the volcanic plains
>Casualties remain the same

>Sir, there are Morlocks on the track again
>Very good, bring out the spiked wheels for the chariots.

>>89254595
>The Race War

>>89254612
>Race Wars
holy fuck

>>89251274
>just you, nigger.
Yet you seem to be the only one upset and not in the know, as is usually the case. Are we going to have yet another "remove Atlan because I didn't like the jaks" and "stop using the 70s as reference because muh Leviathan" moment?

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>>89254612
>Literal Underground Race Wars

>>89254715
>A war correspondent for the Franklin Herald decides to investigate the rumors about the mass Race Wars happening between Satsuma and Mu
>They are just... riding dinosaurs?
>Oh wait, it's THOSE kinds of races
>To be fair, they are still quite racist to each other
>The article is still a massive success and people ask for regular coverage on races

>>89254805
>On the streets of America...
>"EXTRA! EXTRA! READ ALL ABOUT IT!"
>"RACE WAR IN THE UNDERGROUND!"
>"CAST YOUR BETS AT THE LOCAL HORSE TRACK!"
>"WEEKLY COVERAGE FROM YOUR MOST TRUSTED NAME IN NEWS!"

>>89236942
>TnT goes off
>Immortal dies from the heat and the force
>Armour is undamaged

The suits of armour were the real immortals all along

>>89243089
You should remove the Emblem of Savoy from the hat - it makes no sense at this point.

>>89256358
>Golemancer Animates the titanum armor and just makes it walk forward and mindlessly slash at anything in front of it
>Atlantian seething intensifies

>>89254710
most mutts here are historically illiterate so it doesn't suprise me they wouldn't know that most of europe didn't give a shit nor had a reason to go to Africa for any purpose until after the industrial revolution, after major industrial entities gained charter to go to those places, after it was established that they found ant resources there to begin with. People think governments would just throw money and manpower down literal holes because reasons as opposed to something that makes actual sense.

>>89257016
lmao if you want to do that go ahead

>>89257717
I think this is an excellent point. Colonial competition for africa should be by all intents and purposes a lot less intensive. Not only do we have entirely new problems to contend with, but there is also fewer players who are interested in taking direct control of Africa as a matter of personal prestige. At the end of the day, colonization was simply the easiest method nations like France or England could think of when it came to securing exclusive contracts with local rulers.

>>89257717
>>89257848
The exploration doesn't really start until the 60s, with Lidenbrock in 1863 making it mainstream, if we're using the Verne date. The actual full-on colonization probably really takes off only in the 70s. By late 70s-early 80s we're not that far off from shit like OTL Berlin Conference and the like.
Also there's the simple fact that Africa doesn't shit like Titanium, artifacts and other magical bullshit. You put that right under someone's feet and that's a pretty big incentive. France and Italy are intimately intertwined with Agartha due to either the Fall or volcano bulshit, so it makes sense for them to go all in.
All in all, doesn't seem like a reason to get so worked up.
But Africa would remain largely irrelevant, true.

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>>89257016
I tried combining the Sicilian and Neapolitan emblems.

>>89258530
kino

>>89258530
oh fuck yeah bud

>>89257717
>so it doesn't suprise me they wouldn't know that most of europe didn't give a shit nor had a reason to go to Africa for any purpose until after the industrial revolution, after major industrial entities gained charter to go to those places, after it was established that they found ant resources there to begin with.
Lol you are the historically illiterate idiot if you think the exploration of Africa was tied down to industrialization itself and not the advances of modern immunology. African is a bit like Australia, except instead of being every plant flowers and animals wanting to kill you, its every bacteria. European expansionism in Africa started early in the 12th century, but no one could establish cross continental trade routes through its center, and the most accessible part of it was also the most populated and advanced. Europeans governments and private concerns still launched expeditions through it during the 14 and 15th century.
Real estate is a resource in and of itself, always has been. Government will naturally fight for it and rush to get it, always has been.

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As promised, now with basic shitty unit lists. Just the "Main" 4, didn't do Skypeople yet. Just want to get something out quick so we can move forward. And, I hear 2e anon is almost done something playable too. Fuck yeah.

>Is it tested?
Barely.
>Are the units balanced?
Not even in the slightest.
>Is it going to suck to play?
Most likely.
>Is it missing vital information?
Almost certainly!
>Is it playable?
... I think?

Only VERY basic unit lists done, everything is probably going to shit on everything else. Ranged units will likely dominate. Nothing is balanced...
but its a start

Someone boot up a game if you can figure something out. I kind of don't want to be there for the first game so I can get the impartial feedback.

Remember that this is a totally shit first draft and will probably absolutely suck to play. Godspeed if it does, your sacrifice of time will be valuable.

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>>89258788
Oh, and a basic playmap to get started too.

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>>89258809
RIGHT, remembered I wanted to give melee units a few more options on this map after some initial quick playtests.
Fixed.

>>89258788
Good job, anon!
I understand why you merged Atlantis and Atlan, and 1e is before they've introduced the faction split and rewrote the lore anyway. However, Perseus is decidedly from post-split lore, so I'd change the name to some other king or even use some placeholder like Philosopher King and maybe change the Rebel to General, since the Eternal War is not a thing yet.

>>89260007
>However, Perseus is decidedly from post-split lore, so I'd change the name to some other king or even use some placeholder like Philosopher King and maybe change the Rebel to General, since the Eternal War is not a thing yet.
Noted. Will change to I instead of II lmao.

>>89258788
>>89258809
>>89258831
Absolutely based. Currently working on the 2e Main Rules doc. I'm guessing at the rate I'm going I should be done tomorrow night.
Hope you fuckers like Blackadder ITC :P

>>89258788
I love this, but I am going to make a point now that I've made many times before (and I am still going to make it in the future because this looks to me like a good hill to die on).
I don't think named characters and heroes should be selectable leaders in a skirmish game. I feel like a lot of the appeal is making /yourdudes/, but then again, I might be wrong.

>>89261071
>Blackadder ITC
oh my fucking god you can't be serious at that point just use Magic Medieval like a true chad

>>89261086
A valuable concern. We'll figure it out.
If your concern is taken to heart, we may end up settling on leaders still being selected but just as passive buffs and not as on the board units.
We'll see.

>>89261102
This I think would be a good compromise. Like your band is made of schmucks, your leader is a schmuck that is a little bit less of a schmuck, and then you can potentially choose a Patron (named character) to give buffs and passive benefits to your band.

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>>89258530
And this is how the Italian flag might look after the Tyranny is established.
I used the older Sicilian crown, since it had no crosses.
The two heads are allegedly from the Sardinian heraldy, but they actually symbolize Janus the Volcano Freemasons worship.

>>89261168
>>89261102
>>89261086
>>89261086
>I don't think named characters and heroes should be selectable leaders in a skirmish game.
I mean, why? You think important historical characters didn't fight in skirmishes because they were below them? And I can think of plently of "skirmish" games that do this without too much of an issue. We've always agreed to have both Named Leaders and heroes and Unnamed Leaders and characters and it's never been a problem.
>>89261086
>I feel like a lot of the appeal is making /yourdudes/
Then make profiles for fuck's sakes. I've made every possible effort to enable you nerds to make them and apart from the bicycle Lemur (which was admittedly awesome) no one took 3 minutes to open paint and post something.

>>89261168
>a Patron (named character)
I think this was a suggestion way back in the first few threads actually
>>89261251
I agree, named characters are fine. I think the game has enough factions that duplicate characters fighting each other would be too rare to be immersionbreaking

>>89261251
>I mean, why?
Because my general feeling is that the fights fundamentally take place between different concerns or interest groups trying to dig further down. I don't know, it's a gut feeling.
Good point about the profiles though - I will try to come up with something cogent. I have been meaning to try and touch on the rules in a meaningful way.

>>89261436
>Because my general feeling is that the fights fundamentally take place between different concerns or interest groups trying to dig further down
Sure. But why couldn't the game also represent a diplomatic expedition to the deep, or an assassination attempt on Minister Eiffel in the Parisian slums, or any dozens of other scenarios that would involve Faction Leaders?
In the end all this setting is /ourdudes/, we are literally crafting everything ourselves. Saying Named Leaders can't be playable models doesn't shift the focus on /yourdudes/, it only prevents others from playing /theirdudes/ as they truly want them, if they wanted to play with Named Characters. Just start pumping out generic Leaders for the factions instead.

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Traction Engine Update:
Currently getting hold of some plasticard and tiny gears. I've got an exploded view of the side done so I can trace onto the card itself, I'll do the top and fronts later. I compared the size of the Tiger Brigade car and the Traction Engine and slapped my results on a hexmap, giving us a hefty 2 by 3 hex creation (Armstrong gun nonwithstanding.)
As for stats, I don't really have a clue. I guess you could do some sort of high-armour low-health thing to represent the fact that once you get a good hit in the boiler goes up like a Missisipi Paddle Steamer.

>>89263113
>As for stats, I don't really have a clue.
Don't worry, this already gives me enough to work something out, and then you can give me feedback on how you'd want it to run. How much crew does this carry btw?

>>89263561
The original compass image has a crew of four who count as privates when disembarked, with room for four extra privates on the firing deck. I don't know if it should be restricted to only privates for simplicity or if we should allow other passengers though. A sergeant yelling orders from the deck would be cool.
The actual Hornsby Mammoth my design is based on had a crew of 2, and a top speed of "a mph" when pulling several loaded railway cars (4 mph topspeed otherwise)
With a stoker, engineer, gunner, and loader that comes out to four which seems right crew-wise. I lined up a bunch of WHFB square bases on the scale printout I have and you could get 8 to fit, 2 on either side of the gun, 2 in the rear deck with the boiler and smokestack, and 4 on the middle of the firing deck.
The gun is an Armstrong RBL 40 pound breach loader, which was a really early breach loading gun that saw a lot of colonial service and was used on armoured trains.
I think at one point I spitballed the engines being build with a titanium-alloy boiler to allow for higher pressure and thus better cave-traversal but given that the Mammoth managed to exist in real life without any titanium it's not really nessecary.

repost the traction engine story

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>>89264017
There are a few big differences between the story and my design, but we can chock those up to edition differences. This is my first ever screencap comp believe it or not.

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>>89202437
Oh? Tell me more.

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>>89258788
It’s beautiful boss!

I’m still waiting on my Minis but I’ll see if I can do a solo game/get one of my wargame buddies to help test it out on VTT.

>>89263969
>Hornsby Mammoth
I love how much me randomly clicking on this thread months ago led to me learning weird historical facts.

I have an idea cooking for a Hyperborean sponsor PRAISE UNTO THE BRAIN-MANIFOLD, but in the meantime, I think we should think about what the difference between a “leader” and a “hero” are and where our established characters fit into those categories.
I also think we should brainstorm generic hero units, at least one per faction, so that any army can have Your Dude at its helm.

>>89265110
>get one of my wargame buddies to help test it out on VTT.
Hell yes, my man. Warn them that it's a WIP and the gameplay will probably be atrocious!

>>89266081
>what the difference between a “leader” and a “hero” are
Leader is required, 1 max per Expedition, and mechanically he is the lynchpin of the warband. He doesn't necessarily set the flavour or prescribes preferred units, but he will influence it a lot nevertheless. He has the Leadership Point pool, and is more survivable than most models on the field.
Since we already have an Unnamed Characters roster depicting some of the lore's protagonists, maybe Heroes could be the dedicated build-your-own dudes class.

Early morning bump.

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>>89266883
Good morning!

what happened to the op

lmao wut
where'd it go

>>89268281
>>89268172
Lemurian shenanigans. Prophecy went wrong. (Which reminds me, what should the consequences of a prophecy failure be? Should there be degrees of failure for the power of the prophecy, e.g reading tea leaves vs seeing the future?

>>89268658
I recall the general consensus was failed prophecies inflict points of Dread, which makes thematic sense. I didn't touch it in my 1e setup as I wanted to keep things simple, ind you.

>>89268658
We haven't made any rule profiles for Mu or Lemuria yet. There was
> As Foretold [x] : The first X number of Lemuria units that die this game do not add Dread.
Specifically for Prophet units. I think I'm going to leave it out of the 2e Special Rules list i"m putting in the Main Rules doc and leave it until I get to the Faction books (codexes, Army books, how should we call those?).

I was thinking about how a hypothetical "End Times" style scenario would play out (Aside from the inevitable retcon after massive backlash)
We know it's Great War and Hyperborea related, but personally I think it would go down like this
>England and NGF (Or whatever they've become at that point) are the Sanest European powers, and as such are competing over sane things like Africa and who can build the most ships
>Eventually, they get an excuse to duke it out, maybe over who gets to influence/own Doggerland since NGF wants their "Place beneath the sun"
>Great War starts not because of Lemurians, or Napoleon, or any Agarthan stuff, but for utterly mundane reasons and fought between largely mundane powers
>As war goes on, technologies and mercenaries from below are brought up to help, and the war gets weirder and bloodier
>France, Tsardom, Italy, Holy Alliance and eventually US get dragged in, with a few Agarthan nations following
>Then one day, on some blasted heath in Doggerland, the dam breaks
>The whole of Doggerland is drenched in delicious psychic agony, and the Tripods abound
>While everyone else is trying to figure out how to shoot down semi-tangible memory Engines, Napoleon and Malcom make their moves
>Malcom works on damage control on the Surface, while Napoleon goes deeper
>This is the point at which the cycle turns again, but if powers from below can ascend to the surface, why can't the cycle turn the other way?
>The Corsican does whatever it is he was planning, and the cycle breaks and the setting ends and the publisher is flooded with millions of death threats
I really like the idea that amidst all of the madness of the setting what triggers the big Hyperborean entrance is two reasonable powers fighting over reasonable things like land and power.
If you wanted to get corny with it you could go "The real madness was the greed and jealousy of rational men"

>>89270543
I quite like the aspect of the full power of the depths being brought to the surface due to political and mercenary stuff, almost like the last vestiges on sanity collapsing up on itself.

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>>89270543
>Expedition: Agartha Descent: Scramble to the Center of the Earth: RAGNAROK

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>>89270543
>>Great War starts not because of Lemurians, or Napoleon, or any Agarthan stuff, but for utterly mundane reasons and fought between largely mundane powers
>>As war goes on, technologies and mercenaries from below are brought up to help, and the war gets weirder and bloodier
I really like that.
> X Nation gets increasingly bellicose against Y Nation, fueled by rumours that Y is about to start building Atlantean-tech naval ships and submersibles.
> Newly built dreadnought blows up on the docks, no one knows why.
> Immediate reaction by everyone in Y is to blame X and say one of their spies blew a bomb on board.
> THIS MEANS WAR! topside edition.
> No one truly knows if there was a bomb or not or if this is a false flag.

>>89270543
Not bad, but I'd consider some additional possibilities:
>Anglo-French rivalry never dies and Brits actually side with Germany and the Triple Alliance (Germany never took Alsace-Lorraine, had to fight a micro-civil war with the Catholics to even unify as the empire proper, so they might be weaker or seen as such)
>Atlantis and Atlan eventually join the opposing sides
>Neo-Mughals join whoever is fighting against Britain

>>89200203
lol@ whoever is the miserable loser autist who reported OPs image. Imagine what goes on in his head. Fucking hell...

>>89270710
I rather like calling it the Hyperborean Deluge.

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>>89272358
>Deluge 2
>Hyperborean Boogaloo

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>>89266081
BEHOLD THE OVERMIND BRAIN-MANIFOLD, ORIGIN OF THE MRLN-TYPE EMANATION
>Hyperborean expedition sponsor, increases potency of friendly units' debuff abilities.
>Covers the entire surface of a moon orbiting the Firmament, has been carefully cultivated since the dawn of Hyperborean history.
>Was once a man. Was once a man.
>Has undergone so many Hyperborean "lobotomies" that it has become a landscape of brainflesh unto itself.
>Demands more brain matter to grow its processing capabilities, each unit that dies in battle becomes funds for the expedition if it can be successfully extracted.
>Has calculated the exact time and date that it will be destroyed. Looks forward to this event with some alien approximation of eagerness.
>Wields the MEMORY CANNON, a device capable of launching a Memory Engine at high velocities to any point in space and time. This is an exceptionally costly maneuver and invariably results in the destruction of the Memory Engine.
>Units in the affected radius remember being blown up before it happens, causing intense Dread but giving ample time to get the hell out of the way.
>Terrain around the Engine's wreckage becomes MEMORIAL WRECKAGE, rough terrain with nasty effects for anything that lives below the Firmament.
>It's basically a meme-tier superweapon and almost never viable to actually use until the very end of a campaign. Too costly to deploy at all in a standard battle.

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>when you realize how the gano-ducksworth theory explains the beauchamp onion effect
>personalities become bigger as people travel down the layers because they are traveling to the past and becoming more like how they will be remembered by history
>husks happen because most people will simply be remembered as a corpse

>>89272648
>capable of launching a Memory Engine at high velocities to any point in space and time
Well, now we know who to blame for all the bullshit retcons.

>>89272710
>what happens to those forgotten by history?

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>>89273459
>They're the lucky ones.

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>>89273491
>OP got struck with rapid-onset degeneration, courtesy of jannies
It's more likely than you think.

>>89273586
Dear god, it happened again!

>>89273586
holy hell

>>89273737
Good, pfiou, 2e anon, thought I got myself banned ... aaaawww shit I just realized I could have justified any delays on that...

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>>89258530
What the Hell am I doing with my life.
Now he looks more like younger Crispi.

>>89274023
Deepfry this man. NOW!

>>89272648
I like this Patron/Sponsor mechanic idea in order to add flavor to a warband. I'm gonna see what I can do for it.

>>89275448
I think we should reflavor most leaders as patrons instead. Napoleon isn't personally leading expeditions, for example, he's off brooding on St. Unhelena. But he IS sponsoring shit.
And for bonus points, it's a flavorful term.

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>>89254313
>"And going around the last turn we have the Jefferson Jalopy, followed close behind by the Massachusetts Monitor, with the Mu Mutilator neck and neck with the Prophecy Paddywagon. The Prophecy Paddywagon is pulling ahead, but the Jefferson Jalopy has just thrown a tar baby onto the track, and there goes the Prophecy Paddywagon spiraling into the ditch! Who could have predicted this? And it looks like the Mu Mutilator has just fired off a rocket into the Massachusetts Monitor, but you'll need something stronger than gunpowder to pierce armor that thick. And the Mu Mutilator is... yes, Ladies and Gentlemen, the Mu Mutilator is BITING into the armor of the Massachusetts Monitor, just ripping it away, it's like nothing I've ever seen! The Massachusetts Monitor must go faster if it wasn't to stay in this race and out of the Mu Mutilator's dinner menu! And back to the Jefferson Jalopy, still in the lead... OH NO, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MYSTERIOUS LEMUR X HAS JUST JOINED THE RACE!"

>>89276018
>"MYSTERIOUS LEMUR X HAS JUST JOINED THE RACE!"
>Ting, ting!

>>89275643
I think the best option would be to have patron rules, but also unit stats. Just have an asterix next to the stats saying "This unit is not intended for standard play. It is best used as part of a narrative battle or at the end of a campaign"
That way people can have Napoleon as a patron while also having him as a horrifically unbalanced final boss

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>>89276018
>MY GOD, THE STINKER GROGS HAVE PULLED UP WITH A JUICE WAGON!
>THE AUDIENCE IS ADVISED TO REMAIN OUT OF THE SPLASH ZONE!

>>89276194
That way we could have our cake and eat it to.

>>89276194
I like that idea. I was sort of worrying about not having an excuse to paint little models of the funny warlords and such.
>>89272648
>Instead of a unit, the OVERMIND BRAIN-MANIFOLD is just an entire battlemap riddled with horrible hazards for everyone.
Sweet Jesus.

>>89275643
>Napoleon isn't personally leading expeditions
Who are YOU to tell to Napoleon what Napoleon can do?
No man, God or eldritch being can do that.
Not even Death itself.

>>89276579
His player.

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James Green writer here. Have a badly made picture for cowboy units, just because.

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>>89276579
Napoleon can't lead expeditions for the same reason why the God Emperor can't lead his troops into battle.
He's on the shitter.

>>89277353
That post would have a lot more weight to it had you attached a picture of some minis your kitbashing...

>>89276197
>MY GOD
*MY GORG,
ftfy

>>89275448
Maybe your sponsors could be not just your nation's big figures, but also private interests, secret societies and the like, since we have a section for them. They'd give you bonuses mostly on campaign map, additional equipment to choose from etc. They'd also determine what main or secondary goals you may have.

>>89280752
I think I'm fine with Leaders being on the battlefield, honestly.

2e anon reporting in on progress for the mains rules doc.
9 pages in, I got less time than I thought yesterday to put on it, and it might be the same today, might not. Its going to be ready either late tonight or tomorrow.
>>89280752
>Maybe your sponsors could be not just your nation's big figures, but also private interests, secret societies and the like, since we have a section for them
Yup that was my thought too.
>>89282153
>I think I'm fine with Leaders being on the battlefield, honestly.
Oh Leaders will be on the battlefield for sure, every version of the rules right now says you need a Leader, but it doesn't have to be one of THE named faction Leader, it could be some generic dude, like the Modern Major General, who may or may not be just one dude.
But the Sponsor idea allows us to insert a lot of player gameplay control. Think of Minister Eiffel. You can take him as a Leader to have him punch stuff up, or you can take him as a Sponsor that says
> Minister's Eiffel Diplomatic Mission To The Underworld
> Your Leader, Characters and Specialists all gain Diplomat.
> Diplomats in your Expedition may attempt a Parlay action targeting an enemy Leader or model with Diplomat, Noble or Aristocrat within 6. If successful, the targeted model loses 1 AP.
> At the end of the turn, if you have failed all Parlay attempts (or not attempted any), your Leader loses 1 Leadership point. If you succeeded one Parlay attempt, remove 1 Dread. If you succeeded 3 remove 1 Dread and gain back 1 Leadership point.
> If you succeed 3 Parlay 3 turns in a row, you win the game.

>>89282153
Nah, I'm down for named Leaders myself, but some characters can work better as sponsors.

Oh and also while I'm on it, we all good on fusing Arms and Legs into one location group? I've warmed up to that, but the name Extremities still bugs me for some reason, I keep picturing Cyrano-looking motherfuckers getting their nose cut off for some reason. Mind if I replace it by Limbs?

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Sponsor Idea
> The Pharos
> Atlantean Old Boy's secret society for retired Navy officers and Kataphraktoi that morphed over the time into the Atlantean Navy's Intelligence Bureau.
> Primary concern is to stay ahead of both Topside nations and Atlan's naval technology, while determining which Nation Atlantis should ally with militarily.
> As such they have established strong ties with England, France (both of them) and the US, given them military support, sends them ambassadors, etc.
> Sponsor for Brits, French and USA Colonials.
> Models which can be given Mounts during Recruitment can be given Olms.
> You must recruit 1 Specialist from the Atlantis Faction list in your army. If that Specialist dies, gain 5 Dread instead of 2.
> "Atlantean Naval Cannonade" Your Leader gains this Special Action, [1 AP, 1 LD] Designate an Hex within 10 and LoS and make a Scatter roll, which unless it hits deviates d6 hexes. Models in the Hex hit and adjacent to it takes a Strength 3 Explosion hit.

>>89284074
>Atlan's naval technology
Probably not a high bar kek

>>89284118
I mean, not now, but Titanium has enormous industrial potential, and Atlantis has long feared the day its wayward cousin launched their first dreadnought.

>>89282931
I don't mind. When I proposed the initial consolidation I went with pseudo-scientific names for flavor's sake, name doesn't change what the mechanic represents

>>89284074
>Sponsor for Brits, French and USA Colonials.
But not for Atlantis? I'm assuming that's not a mistake, given the bonuses it gives you. Maybe an alternate option for Atlantean armies to take advantage of the Pharos' resources?

>>89284840
>Maybe an alternate option for Atlantean armies to take advantage of the Pharos' resources?
Nah, its intended, it's like the CIA, it's not supposed to operate on Atlantis land proper.

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Surfacer sponsor.
>The Bohème Society.
>Relatively recently founded society comprised of mostly wealthy American elites, dedicated to making the most of Agartha's wealth.
>Can be used as a sponsor for any American or European expedition, with the exception of Imperial Ottomans. They will not work with the Sultan of Husks. They will, however, work with La Ombre and the Lost Men.
>Incredibly un-picky about their allies and very willing to throw money around if you can promise results.
>You get an extra fat starting bonus, more if you complete various objectives.
>Comes with two big tables of random objectives the Society demands you accomplish. One for campaign objectives, one for battles.
>Failure to accomplish your assigned tasks in time can lead to fines as wealthy investors check out of the expedition.
>Your leader gains the ability to call for mercenary reinforcements, chosen from a randomized list. These men will deploy a few turns after being called and remain for the rest of the battle.
>These aren't permanent additions to your forces and you can only call on them so many times. If they are completely wiped out, that's all she wrote.

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Quick bump & report.
Up to 13 pages, 3000 words. Ranged attacks & Cover rules are next, then Vehicles, and then its going to be mostly done, just need going over to make sure I haven't forgotten anything essential. Been at it a while today so I might take a bit of the evening to myself before getting back at it, but once I do it should be much more than 1~2 hours of work.

>>89285352
I like it but I feel that a very easy workaround to the extra objectives is to either front load your expedition spending and then ignore them or once you know the expedition is nearing its end then start ignoring them.
Instead I would have a smaller bonus upfront and portion out the additional funds as the objectives are complete or otherwise add an additional setback.

>>89272648
>ORIGIN OF THE MRLN-TYPE EMANATION
So, what's the origin of the Emanation types? Are they just shitposted, or is this just something I don't know because I'm not terminally online? Because otherwise the only thing that they bring to mind are GTR types...

>>89287735
Try adding some vowels.

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>>89287735
There's a couple of named Hyperborean leaders who are stated to be masters of particular EMANATIONS. Picrel is master of the SRTR-TYPE. HYPERWARLORDS, more common hero units (default Hyperborean Your Dude), are wielders of the TNGR-TYPE EMANATION.
EMANATIONS mostly take their names from shortened versions of various mythological figures. SRTR is Surtr. IZNM is Izanami. TNGR is Tengri. MRLN is Merlin. Note that being the ORIGIN of the MRLN-TYPE EMANATION puts the BRAIN-MANIFOLD on a completely different level from even very high ranking Hyperborean leaders. This is because I have subtly implied that it is, in fact, Merlin. This is exclusively the realm of #DeepLore.

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>>89287831
I realized I didn't actually explain what the hell an EMANATION is supposed to be.
>EMANATIONS are essential thoughtforms discovered by Hyperborean Pain-Priests during their experiments with EXPERIENCE.
>EMANATIONS as used by the HYPERBOREANS largely map to different fears and anxieties held by civilized people.
>SRTR represents the fear of fire, of being crushed by a larger animal than yourself, of having your population decimated by foreign barbarians.
>That SRTR also maps to the mythological figure of Surtr is no mistake; Hyperboreans deliberately draw upon the legends and histories of their foes in order to strike greater fear into their hearts.
>The account of a Highland Rifleman who survived an encounter with a HYPERWARLORD tells that the rider called out to him as it loosed its PAIN ARROWS, speaking in the voice of the British officer who hanged the man's father.
>How Hyperboreans are able to gain this information on their victims' worst fears is unknown at this time, but is likely a function of their EMANATIONS.
>To MASTER an EMANATION is to become one so completely with its legend that you are effectively one and the same.
>The psychic echos of every person who dies by fire become fuel for LAITON-GEOM-EUN and his legend, enabling him to put more to the flames.
>The cycle is without end.
In case it wasn't obvious, LGE's name is a mixture of Finnish and Korean. :^)

>on topic content deleted
fucking why?

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>>89289033
It is all according to the prophecies. Ours is not to question, friend.

>>89287831
>>89288972
So I imagine that we could go one or two ways with EMANATIONS

>Several large, overarching EMANATIONS like SRTR, MRLN, and TNGR
>With rules to create your own sub EMANATION for Your-Dudes

We could cover the main big fears with the overarching ones. And get into granularity with the Yourdudes customization tables in case your army has a specific gimmick in mind.

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>>89289100
>Several large, overarching EMANATIONS like SRTR, MRLN, and TNGR
>Forgetting worst-girl, THE FOX OF SHANG, MASTER OF THE IZNM-TYPE EMANATION
>(Fear of being cut open, fear of sadists, fear of being tortured for no reason other than the pleasure of your captor)
Yeah, sounds like a good idea. I can't wait to unleash the HYPERWARLORD of STUBBING YOUR TOE AT FIVE AM onto the underworld.

>>89289152
Hey man, every HYPERWARLORD has to start somewhere. At least you're not steve. Who got stuck with THE FEAR OF SOMETHING BITING YOUR ASS WHILE YOU'RE ON THE TOILET and now has a technicolor poop on his warbanner.

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>>89287831
>>89288972
>>89289100
>>89289152
In any case, thanks for the explanation, this will allow me to play with it.
As such, let me try my hand at something weird.
*Ahem*
BEHOLD UR-CA, KILLER SKY-WHALE, CONDUIT TO THE LNGBKR-TYPE EMANATION
>Hyperborean critter who "evolved" into this form after honing in on the suffering of Sky Whales and other cognitively advanced cetaceans exclusively to feed.
> Used to be forced to feed from afar, the Hyperborean Deluge allowed it to swim down the Pain Waterfall in order to be the direct cause of the suffering now. Eternally grateful to humans for it (we'd rather it wasn't tho).
> Some human whalers and hunters have started strange practices and exhibiting signs of Husking despite not going underworld.
> Sponsor to everyone.
> All your models gains Husk, Hatred : Beasts and loses 1 Health bar (to a minimum of 1).
> Do not lower your Dread at the end of the turn.
> When you have 5 or more Dread and all of your models have at least 1 Graze Wound, Your Leader gains the Special Ability "Call Ur-Ca" [1AP, 3LP] : Place an Ur-Ca model anywhere within 3 of this model and Scatter it d6 hexes. Any model directly under Ur-Ca's after it Scatters is immediately removed from play. Ur-Ca is identical to a Mighty Cavesaur Beast except it has 2 AP, has the Fly and Amphibious rules, and is under its player's control until it dies or the game end.

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>>89289100
Wait a second...
>SRTR represents the fear of fire, of being crushed by a larger animal than yourself, of having your population decimated by foreign barbarians.
I think we know which Hyperborean concert uses Tripods the most
>UUUUUUULLLLLLAAAAAAAAA!

>>89284074
>Everything is fine and dandy with the colonials until Lord Cunningham starts constructing ironclads underground

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>>89289736
Hyperborean Tripods definitely have some sort of rainbow effect like an oil slick or a DvD on their hull. Call it UTTERMOST IRIDESCENCE or something

I think weaker emanations should involve more fears than stronger ones, in addition to more specific fears. The Hyperborean who’s JUST powered by the fear of being killed with a rock is more powerful and important by the guy powered by that and thirty other tangentially related fears.

2e anon reporting in, again. Might as well, since we need the bump.
Sorry for the delay, first of all. I was overly enthusiastic with my assessment of how long it'd take. Its not much more than I though but its a bit. I couldn't sleep so I thought I'd do some work on the rules doc, and I only ended up fixing stuff that needed fixing instead of actually advancing. I'm hoping I'm going to be able to maintain my estimate for later today, but it'll probably be late tonight.
Once that's done I'd like to move on to make a Faction Expedition book or whatever we'd call it, at least have a format done on which I can stick the result of the playtest. I assume people wants Brits first but it's up to you, I'll do anything, even something we haven't posted profiles on yet.

>>89292743
> I assume people wants Brits first but it's up to you
I'm fine with that

I think we've almost hit the 7-day bump limit, should I make a new thread if that's the case?

Bump. Here's an idea for a new character, this time for the Americans.
>Julian Stanton
>Born to a family of poor european exiles in Pennsylvania, now one of the richest men on the continent
>Enlisted in the civil war, but disappeared before he saw any combat
>Re-emerged in California, owning a modest parcel of real estate
>Upon the discovery of the Mammorth cave entrance, he sold all his property and ventured underground
>Supposedly adventured in Agartha for several years before returning to the surface with a massive (and mysterious) fortune, proceeding to buy every rail, steel, and oil company he could
>Has tried and failed several times to buy out Colt, and Smith and Wesson
>Now runs the railway line that goes through Mammoth cavern
>Tried to set up a second line to Chicxulub crater but beaten out by Cornelius Vanderbilt
>Though he directs his business empire from afar, in his manor at San Francisco, all his visitors say that he has remained unnaturally young even into his late 50s
>Said to have constructed a vast cellar beneath his manor, where he collects trinkets and artifacts from Agartha some of which, whisper the servants, are alive
>Still personally leads expeditions from time to time, and is surprisingly capable in combat
>Can also speak, read, and write fluent Greek

>>89296038
Yes, sounds good.

What's the official vernacular for Saurs?
Does Cavesaur refers to a specific species, or is it just a generic term? Are pterosaurs called Skysaurs?

>>89296612
As far as I can tell, now that you mention it,
"Saur" appears to be a term for domesticated dinosaur.

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>>89297989
>>89297989
>>89297989