>>15957628
why has this thread gotten no replikes?

looks good, i think i'll keep an eye on this. at least it has more chance than some of the previous attempts. learn by the failures of others.

>>15958924
I do believe we've hit that interest/productivity lull that every large project has to run through. Long as we keep it alive, the regular folks who've gotten burnt out or busy will return soon enough.

Our last discussion from the previous thread was about dungeon design, and I think people were talking about how many new items/equipment/magic should be included in each dungeon, since we've got more than the usual lone adventurer.

I'm personally fine with just 1-2, items per dungeon, maybe a 3rd once in a while. Other items should be gotten overworld, through side-quests (or just Overworld full-quests), mini-games, and the like.

(Mini-games are another thing we should outline, but that should come later. Skill contests and the like, you know.)

>>15959625
I think we should simply lay out the main options for making sure every player gets items for their character in a fair manner, and let GMs choose whichever best suits their group's interests. As I see it, the options are:
>Classic style: 1 item per dungeon, more items available between any two dungeons via minigames, side-quests, etc.
>Multi-item dungeon style: 2-3 items per dungeon, additional items as needed between dungeons to catch up the rest of the players.

In either case, items should be given on a rotating basis as much as possible so one player doesn't get several new items in a row while the others are stuck with nothing.
The advantage of the classic style is that it makes dungeon design simpler and more closely reflects the source material.
The advantage of the multi-item dungeon is that it allows multiple players more equally share the glory in a given dungeon, rather than one player being the crucial member who holds the key item for that dungeon. However, it requires longer and more complex dungeons than the classic style to pull off effectively.

When we get around to designing example dungeons, we should make at least one for each style.

>>15961433
Agreed, at least one for each style will be important.

There is a possibility I just realized might be an issue. Given the broad range of capabilities a full party will be bringing to a dungeon, it may be difficult to design a dungeon they aren't already prepared for. If the party includes an archer-type character (which you would be kind of a dick to forbid as a concept), then planting "the bow" in a dungeon as a necessity to solve some puzzles doesn't work, so that's one video game example that isn't as viable in the P&P. Similar complications can be brought up by casters, or a Physical Power-based Goron who it turns out can push that stone just fine without a power bracelet, albeit with time and effort, and maybe even support.

Although, this concern may be prematurely expressed. There's a wealth of possible items and unique situations they could be needed for.

>>15961596
I think, by necessity, dungeons will have to be custom-tailored to the abilities of the party, designed only *after* the group has made their characters. It's more of a load for the GM, but the only other option (as far as I can tell) would be to forbid players from taking certain options, which would be pretty lame. So rather than designing a dungeon then having to throw it all out when you realize that the party already has the tools to get through it, you wait to see what tools the party chooses and then design your dungeon accordingly.

'Sup guys. Sorry for my absence. Been moving back to college for the new semester, preparations for school, etc. As was stated in previous threads, I was a little burnt out after the mechanics clusterf*ck that we got through (not that I didn't enjoy it). Also, I screwed up my internet connection for 3 days, so that sucked.

>>15961433
>>15961596
I'm leaning towards 1 item per dungeon otherwise it would be ridiculous to try to create more than a small handful of dungeons. Alternatively, make the last dungeon have multiple item synergy - that would be awesome.

>>15961901
I totally agree. In the games, the dungeons are custom tailored to Link's abilities at the time. It's the same thing here. The only difference is that the game designers don't give you any choice on what type of character you play, they choose it for you.

>>15962193
>Alternatively, make the last dungeon have multiple item synergy - that would be awesome.

I think that'd be a good idea whether you go with the classic or the multi-item approach. Bring back stuff for each item to do, and new things the players haven't seen before that require creative combinations of items.

Dropping a quick bump before bed. In the interests of trying to perhaps stir up more discussion, I'll recap the current consensus on how to handle songs (to the best of my knowledge), since I believe it's not quite the same as what's on the wiki:

>Each song has one or more effects, with each effect given a rank.
>To invoke a given effect, your ranks in |instruments| must equal or exceed the effect's rank.
>Effects are subject to use limits based on rank:
>>Rank 1-2: No limit
>>Rank 3: Once per hour
>>Rank 4: Twice per day
>>Rank 5: Once per day
>>Rank 6: Once per day/only in specific (typically plot-relevant) circumstances
>These limits only represent how often you can invoke the effect at your own personal command; use of a song's effect for a puzzle-solving or plot-crucial use doesn't count against your quota. These cases fall under the will of the gods (GM).
>Certain songs or effects may specifically require that you have a special/magical instrument rather than a basic, run-of-the-mill version.

>Long as we keep it alive, the regular folks who've gotten burnt out or busy will return soon enough.
I heed your call. Since this image was the previous thread's dying breath, I'll repost it. If the Anon who requested the Mask Maker still lurks these threads, what do you want me to do with the posters behind her? Other than the posters and maybe a few minor touch-ups its pretty much done.

again, sorry I dropped off the face of the earth for like 2 weeks. Stuff's been crazy where I am.

Bump because I refuse to slay two threads in a row.

For Legendary Monsters, We know we need some form of system for weakpoints, but at the same time I don't think that Bosses should be TOTALLY invulnerable aside from their weakpoint. (Sure, Kid Link cant hurt Gohma, but what about, say, a Heavy weapon using Goron?)

How about Legendary Monsters get an addendum to their Armor value, allowing them to drop damage down all the way to zero. Meanwhile, they have a weakpoint of some form, which can be descrerned With a perception check, or some form of general intuition (Spiritual Wisdom, maybe?), while a Kokiri's fairy either makes the check laughably easy, or circumvents it entirely. Another method of harming HUGE shit would be it has a second health meter of some form, depleting which stuns the monster for X rounds and makes it vulnerable (Using King Dodongo as the basis there) and after X rounds, the secondary health meter refills and the stun ends. Striking a monster's weakpoint or depleting its weakness heart meter could either damage it directly, stun it and reveal its "True" weakpoint, or hurt it AND stun it for beatings.

For partys that cant easily discern weaknesses, Bosses could also be fought more directly, but it would be much harder. (I like the mental image of a fullplate wearing Goron wrestling Gohma to the ground, and a mage hammering Gohma with damage-based spells)

Bosses could also have special keywords allowing them to resist debilitating effects, and other big mean things.

>>15967621
An untrained |perception| check would just be Spiritual Wisdom anyway, so peception sounds like a good way to go about determining weak points.

I'd say bosses should just have extremely high armor values when you aren't hitting the weak spot, and I agree to letting their armor reduce damage to 0. I'm not sure if we really need a way to circumvent weaknesses, though, since dungeons and bosses should be designed with a specific party in mind. If you're sending the party up against Gohma, they should have a bow anyway.

Bump. Where the hell is everyone?

>>15965395
Holy hell, it's done? Thank you so much! It's amazing!

Maybe a town guard/circus troupe recruiting poster?

>>15967621
Well, it should be a question of either hitting Gohma in the eye, or a half dozen full-grown men stabbing and breaking its armour plating, beating it to the ground, and cutting its legs off. Sure, it should be possible, but it's much more difficult.

>>15970453
It seems a bit dark somehow. (Probably just the monitor I'm using.)

It looks even better now, especially the background details. Thanks again for all the art.

>>15970467
I agree that it should be possible, but very difficult to defeat a boss without exploiting it's weakness.

>>15964971
If a dungeon takes less than a dungeon to finish (360 turns), a Rank 4 song can be used more often than a Rank 3 one.
That's the only issue I see.

>>15970453
If you want to take inspiration from Majora's Mask, you could make a poster for The Indi-Go's or something.

>>15971675
Oh, and last thread if anyone is interested in it. Someone posted some good tips for making a dungeon.

http://archive.easymodo.net/tg/thread/15918803

>>15970643
Okay, so it seems we're in agreement that bosses should have fairly high armor, which can reduce damage to 0, unless you exploit the mandatory weakness. That's pretty good. How about HP? If you can't hurt a boss except via weakness or super-strong attack, how much life should they have? I was using a 3H-per-hero system, but didn't have the no-damage-without-weakness thing, so that might be too much?

>>15971948
Generally, bosses are defeated with 3 repetitions of exploiting a weakness right? I suppose that we should start with making the health in a multiple of 3.
I would say give the bosses no less than 2H of armor for non-weakness attacks and a set damage bonus from attacking the weakness (damage increment bonus?). That way if the Heavy is attacking the weakness, it will do more than if the dedicated caster did.

>>15971948
I think it kind of depends on how much damage you expect the party to do each time they get to the weak point. Generally speaking, bosses in the video games are designed to take a certain number of "hits" (or usually, periods of whaling on the weak point while it's exposed) before going down.

Multiples of three make sense, with nastier bosses having multiple stages, each of which can take multiples of damage.

>>15972056
>I would say give the bosses no less than 2H of armor for non-weakness attacks and a set damage bonus from attacking the weakness (damage increment bonus?).

I would think that attacking the weakness would simply bypass the armor, that would negate the need for any sort of damage bonus per se.
And of course, boss armor would always count as warded against magic damage.

>>15972567
That makes more sense, I agree.

Is Scavenging really the right name for it?

>>15973854
Probably not, but I can't think of a better one...

Please tell me that Scavenging is a Technique and not a skill... Right?

Because that would be silly.(and not because I totally don't want to have to reformat the character sheet, nope)

Bump. Keep the thread (and interest) alive!

>>15975113
It would probably be something that can be done with a basic Attribute check, with techs to improve your chances of finding something good. Probably. It's kind of murky and undefined at the moment, hence the matter of it being something that needs work.

But at any rate, definitely not a skill, no.

>>15975889
Absolutely not a skill. Attribute-based, possibly related to Perception. We pretty much just need to figure out a roll that makes sense, and then either draft a chart or point at the monster drop charts.

Morning bump.

>>15967621
Well, traditionally the item found in the dungeon is used to kill the monster, so it seems like that should at least occasionally factor in. Seems like we need a kit for making bosses and several parameters. Parameters like, I dunno,
Health, fatigue, weakpoints, behavior, maneuvers, armor, lair and minions. Fatigue amounts to that stun thing you were talking about. It'd be a threshold for damage done a certain way to stun a monster. Like a secondary weak-point that I have to cause 3 points of fatigue to to stun it and gain access to the primary weakpoint to cause damage. For instance, shooting Queen Gohma in the eye so she's stunned and you can slice at her with your sword.
Behavior would list what it does, perhaps under what circumstances (just guidelines, perhaps an intelligence threshold for how often it will break from predictibility, 1 being never, some higher number being highly adaptive to the heroes), maneuvers would be how it attacks (a list of attacks it would use, along with if they expose any weakpoints and such, and perhaps warning signs a perceptive player can see and predict it is going to do. For lulz, some bosses have a few different moves with the same warning), a lair is what environmental hazards and such are in the place you fight it, minions are, well, minions. Armor would really be pointless, if it's entire purpose is to curtail normal damage. The only use I can think of for it is a boss has a set amount that's too much for a low level character, but they could come back to it later and be powerful enough to defeat it with normal attacks, just to show how far the party has come. Otherwise, I'd just say that most bosses, unless it's for something interesting, should simply negate the damage from normal strikes.

(cont')

>>15980472
(cont')

Killing a boss shouldn't be easy, but it should be cinematic. Shooting gohma, slicing the eye, shooting gohma, slicing the eye, shooting gohma slicing the eye, WIN, is fine for a video game, but in Pen and Paper, it either needs to be harder to do it, and one time through will kill her, or she needs to have or three sets of secondary/primary weakpoints to exploit. Like... I dunno, shoot in the eye to stun, slice to damage, then she starts crawling on the ceiling, bombing you with young, and you have to knock her down somehow, stunning her, then you hit her in the eye, then for the last bit, I dunno, some pheromone fuckery and her young eat her? This is of course rather linear, and fighting the boss again would be boring unless you change it up, but beating bosses should be an interesting encounter, perhaps going so far as to make them more like skill challenges than actual fights.

I've rambled enough, I think.

>>15980482
>>15980472
So you should treat bosses differently from regular monsters/NPCs and players?
Makes sense, I suppose. They might be too easy to beat otherwise.

...Plus some of them break the size model. I'm looking at you, worm/eel bosses.

Would you mind posting a write-up of a boss using your system? It would help illustrating what you mean.

>>15980482
Well, if the players go for the "shoot it with cannons" route, there should be an option to kill it with absurdly large amounts of firepower. Bosses may be unpleasant, but if you have a large enough mob of villagers...

>>15979012
.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOUttC-Ww3c

>>15981191
Uh, I really haven't been here long enough to be familiar with the system, so no, not now... I could try later, and I will if no one comes up with any ideas for it in the next few threads. (I was here for like, the third or fourth thread of this. My only real contribution was the idea for mass, which was changed from what I said, of course, but I still feel kinda cool.)

>>15981252
What you're describing isn't a boss fight, though. You're describing a giant monster attacking a village. My idea would be an entirely different kind of preset encounter for a dungeon. While I'd like it to be open to creative solution, there'd be no available cannons or villagers to help. You would want different rules for just big monsters that fit into normal combat.

>>15981633
No villagers? Definitely.

No cannons? I wouldn't be so sure.

I think it'd be better to give bosses an absurdly high armor rating rather than flat-out immunity to damage outside of their weak point. It makes sense that if a character *really* focuses on dishing out tremendous amounts of hurt, they can penetrate the defenses of even a super-tough boss monster if they get a good hit in. Not penetrate by much, mind, but still penetrate.

>>15982196
See, we've got two different ideas here, though. You're thinking of the Dragon in DnD. Big monster that, if you've got a good party, can be creatively defeated. I don't see this game as a game where bruisers take the limelight. Sure, against mooks the goron can clear field, but what use is the fucking Kokiri kid if we let the Goron just hack away at the boss? I feel like in this game, the Fighter type character is SUPPORT, keeping the baddies off the main stay of the party, who should be those with puzzle solving tools. I want the boss to be another puzzle, not a fight. Is that not with the spirit here?

>>15982350
Gorons have killed bosses. Exhibit A: Majora's Mask. Link can use the brute-force approach with a hammer in OOT. Bosses come in all sizes, shapes, and methods of killing.

Cannons might fall under "contents of the boss room" in terms of availability, though. No different from using platforms or a grappling hook for certain bosses in the series.

Does that make sense?

>>15982350
You can let the bruiser get damage in without detracting from the puzzle nature of the boss. I'm talking armor to where your heavy-hitter only gets any damage through on a particularly good roll, and even then only 1/4-1/2H. Enough to give the heavy a little bonus as a reward for his efforts, but hardly enough to nullify the value of the puzzle elements. If you try to beat the boss by powering through the armor, you're probably not going to succeed, and even if you do it'll take you much longer (and you'll likely suffer far more casualties) than if you'd exploited the proper weaknesses.

I never meant it in the sense of being a really viable alternative to the puzzle side.

>>15982499
I don't feel like using instances in gameplay where such-and-such happened is a valid reason to include such-and-such. I figured the idea was to make a fun game with the LoZ feel, and elements with nitpicky justifications aren't good elements for that. And if the cannon is environmental, I'm entirely okay with it. It was obviously put there to defeat said boss.

>>15982556
Well, sure. In the end, it's up to the GM. Here, I want to make a system for creating a boss that must be defeated with critical thinking and creative use of items and environment. We could make rules for other bosses, though. Slightly tweaked rules that are more open ended, and let the players kill it with whatever they have on hand. Namely the Greatsword Goron. I'm just pitching ideas. I feel like puzzle-style bosses and big-monster-bosses-that-can-be-beaten-with-swords-and-grit-if-you're-into-that bosses are both valid.

Question is, do they need different rulesets entirely, or can they be the same thing? Because with my idea, a big boss doesn't need hearts or HP or what have you. They just need one to three wounds (or whatever terminology you like), each being caused by a puzzle event (IE, loosening the giant chandelier hanging on the ceiling and causing it to fall on them, stabbing it in the weakspot, and on)

>>15983374
I think we should use the same health system for both kinds of bosses, just to keep things consistent. For a more puzzle-oriented boss, you just say that the damaging event deals X hearts worth of damage, and give it an ungodly amount of armor.

If, by some chance, the players manage to muster enough damage-dealing capability to penetrate that armor, good on them -- they can have the tiny bit of damage that gets through. Not like it'd make a big difference in the overall flow of the battle, seeing as it's only a fraction of what they'd do with each hit to the weak spot, but it should still get them something.

>>15983409
Hrm. I suppose I'm not in the greatest position to be arguing. I'd need time to read over the rules and see what combat is like. I need spare time for that, though, and I'm currently running around doing very important things. So important. Really, it's crazy.

In any case, I don't think this argument can progress anymore until I present a proper example. So until I do, I think we can just call this one a draw.

Well fought.

I think we're about due for a bump.

bump again.

keep up the good work guys, this thing is almost finished. The fact that it's made it this far is a testament to the hard work and dedication that /tg/ occasionally displays.

Any plans to implement masks? Not necessarily magic masks for transformation, but just for inherent properties, like the Bunny Hood for more actions, some kind of Zora mask for breathing underwater, basic shit like that.

>>15989035
It's definitely on the to-do list, though the precise mechanics haven't been worked out.

I expect they'd be treated similar to stuff like the Pegasus Boots and Roc's Feather -- miscellaneous accessories that give a particular benefit defined by the item itself, not really following any particular pattern or rule the way spells and weapons do.

Don't you 404 on me!

IS THAT A FUCKING GORON WITH A ROCKET LAUNCHER

>>15991783
Regrettably no, That woud be a Goron with a flute-bludgeon.

Fill it with gunpowder and a bomb with thick-casing and you could probably USE it as a rocket launcher, though.

Goro.

Goro?

So, I'm trying to get a group together to start a beta test game here at my college. So far I've got my roommate and the guy down the hall up for it. Of course, I'll keep you posted on problems that we encounter.

I'm really drawing a blank on rules for dungeon design. It seems like something that is so specific to each game that you can't really get much beyond having a few set types of puzzles and encounters.
Kinda the same thing with bosses. It would be so specific that there is little to outline in actual rules.

As for Songs, I'm having trouble coming up with anything that would be useful or entertaining, as that would require genuine creativity and inspiration.

>>15997621
I think rather than "rules" for dungeon and boss design, we should just outline general guidelines for how to approach it. The purpose and proper application of puzzles and items, that sort of thing.

Wow, some 8 hours without any posts? That won't do.

Bump.

>>15997621
Have you checked the ideas already posted for those? It does have a wiki page and archives...

Who's running games?

>>16005292
Friendly Neighborhood DM has been running a playtest, and I know there was one anon who's run some games as well. Other than that and Tech-Point Gent's prospective game mentioned above, I haven't heard much of anything about it.

>>15957628
I think that I have a few propositions for scavenging and the economy,

===================================For scavenging======================
I think it should be a straight characteristic roll with a difficulty of "3" that is made in every "scavenge-able" area. Every character scavenging will roll once against each of his characteristics and collect a number of resource increments based on the number of successes with the resource increment determined by the "richness" of the scavenge-able area.
The physical roll will determine the number of heart pieces.
The mental roll will determine the number of magic jars or items recovered (maybe determined at a 50/50 percent or maybe chosen by the player, or maybe 50/50 with a 1XP talent that ALLOWS a player to choose.)
And the spiritual roll will determine the number of rupees that are found.

That way, combat characters are "focusing" on regaining health for the next fight. Casters are focusing on regening their magic and supplies. And social characters are getting more of what really matters in society: more of those fat dolla dolla bills.

Perhaps a character could also choose BETWEEN mental and spiritual for finding items instead (perhaps using a 2XP talent).

>>15957628
Here are some scavenging increments off the top of my head:

Destitute
1/4 heart per success
1 mp per success (or 2 arrows, one bomb, 2 seeds etc.)
1 Ruppee per success.

Common Low:
1/4 heart peice for every even success; 1/2 heart peice for every odd success
2 mp per success (or 5 arrows; 3 bombs; 5 seeds, etc.)
1 ruppee for every even success; 5 ruppees for every odd success.

Common high:
1/2 heart for every success
2 mp for every even success; 4 mp for every odd success. (or 7 arrows; 3 bombs; 7 seeds etc.)
5 Ruppees per success

Rich:
1/2 heart for every even success; 1 heart for every odd success.
4 mp per success (or 10 arrows, 5 bombs, 10 seeds)
10 ruppees for every odd success; 5 ruppees for every even.

Very Rich:
2 hearts per success
7 mp per success (or 20 arrows; 10 bombs; 20 seeds. etc)
10 Ruppess for every even success; 20 ruppees for every odd success.

I could also see a GM doubling these increments on a roll of 6 (which would be the first success probably because it is the highest possible roll).

The GM, of course, would be the arbiter of which areas are scavenge-able, and would decide how long the area takes to scavenge. Hyrule Field might take a whole day (and be a "rich" or "very rich" area) and pretty much any dungeon room would take about a minute (and be a "destitute" or "common low" area in beginner dungeons and be a "common low" or "common high" area in later dungeons).

Some rooms (such as boss rooms) could also be scavenged as 2-4 actions during a fight, maybe even multiple times (though multiple times could be exploited and perhaps the number of fight scavenges should be limited to the number of characters). And if we wanted to do enemy drops, perhaps we could just roll a randomly chosen attribute of the dying monster against the chart for the area he is in (or maybe a newly chosen chart if the area is not scavenge-able).

===Purchase-able Items===
I have broken down my proposed item lists into their price ranges, and have included with them a suggested price.

*Starter Wallet*
Ammunition:
I think ammunition is a given. Arrows and seeds and similar items should run about a ruppee-a-pop (with maybe 5 ruppee discounts at the 15, 30, and 60 marks). While things like bombs and bombchus should run around 5-ruppee-a-pop (with a 10 ruppee discount at 10, 20, and 30).
Maybe certain shady shrubs could even offer this service in the field or in dungeons at a premium.

Pay-to-heal
Instead of scavenging or something else, I like the idea of also being able to just purchase healing (which you can do in some games)
1/4 heart peice per ruppee seems reasonable (with a 1 ruppee discount for every 2 hearts of bulk purchase)
and
1 mp per ruppee (with a 1 ruppee discount for every 8 mp of bulk purchase)
Maybe certain shady shrubs could even offer this service in the field or in dungeons at a premium.

Lame Weapons:
Meanwhile, simple swords and shields should also be attainable. I like 40 ruppees for a wooden (kokori? otherwise shitty?) weapon

Lame (or light) Armor:
30 for a kokori (Wooden? Flammable? Or otherwise inferior?) shield.
25 for flammable armor, and 50 for a chain shirt or leather armor.

Potions:
I think potions should have two levels: cheap weak/ ones for the early game and expensive/powerful ones for the late game. Still, most potions fall into the first wallet price category. Potions would take one simple action to take out and one simple action to drink.
Simple Red potions could heal 3 hearts and cost 10 ruppees, and Simple Green potions could cost 5 Ruppees and recover 6 mp. Meanwhile, Real Red potions would cost 30 ruppees, and regen 10 hearts, while Real Green Potions would cost 20 Ruppees and refil 20 mp.
I like Fairies for 50 Ruppees. They would heal a character for 5 hearts the first time that they died.
Potions and other "bottle items" are of course limited to the number of magic bottles you have.

MAGIC BOTTLES (and item category with an aside)
I like the idea of three purchase-able magic bottles for each character with a 4th special bottle that can attained either as part of a quest or as one of his items chosen at the start of the game.

The first bought bottle should cost 50 Ruppees, I think. (a full beginner's purse)
The second should be either awarded for a simple quest or minigame to a character who chose a magic bottle as his starting item or purchased for 100 Rupees.
The third purchased bottle should cost 200 Ruppees.

*Big Boy Wallet*

Certain "Combat" Duplicates:
Here things start getting a little murkier in my mind. I would like to put the possibility of purchasing duplicate items in this range and up. Mostly, I would want to include pure-combat weapons such as the Boomerang, Bomb Bag, and Bow (probably for about 60, 65, and 75 ruppees respectively), but omitting items with special effects (such as the hook shot and a seed-shooter that has variable seed firing). These items are not meant to replace going into a dungeon and finding items. Rather, it allows other characters in a party to receive certain items that the group have already collected.

Legit Weapons:
Here is where characters can pick up their swords, and spears, and axes, and knives and whatever. Generally these items should range between 55 and 75 ruppees. A character who chooses an item like this as his starting item, should be able to buy replacement weapons--or duplicate weapons for dual wielding--for much cheaper. Perhaps as cheap as the market price minus 50 or effectively free (to incentivize people from putting off getting a weapon until they have the money).
Certain games have had only-purchasable slingshots, bows, bomb bags, and other such staple items. If that is the case with your setting, put them in this price range as well.

Medium Armor:
The various medium armors should be in this category--on the cheaper end--between 51 and 65 Ruppees. people who choose armor as their starting equipment should be able to buy replacement armor of their type much cheaper.

Begin-er Spells:
Spells (or spell items) that a character can start the game with can perhaps be purchased at this level of cost. Duplicate spells should be on the lower end of the spectrum (between 51 and 75) while "new" spells should be more expensive (between 76 and 100).
A GM might want to not include the purchasing of spells or restrict the number of such "beginner" spells (or spell items) a character can learn (or use).

Blue Potions:
I think blue potions should cost about 60 Ruppees, and heal 7 hearts and 10 mp.

*Big Wallet*

Duplicate "Effect" Items:
Here you can get an extra hookshot for another party member. Or an extra huge flute whistle thing. Or an extra magic ocarina. Prices should fall anywhere in this range (though the flute whistle seems near the top end of the spectrum while like a seed shooter seems near the bottom).

Heavy Armor:
Heavy armor should be on the cheaper side of this price range (between 101 and 120) and characters who chose this as their beginning item should be able to replace their armor for considerably cheaper.

Duplicate "Advanced" Spells:
In this price range, characters can perhaps learn certain spells (or gain certain spell items) that duplicate effects of spells or spell items obtained in questing.
A Gm might even want to include certain advanced spells or spell items, just for purchase.

Weird New Items:
Man. Whatever.

*Wallet Foretold of in the Prophesies*

All kinds of stuff:
Duplicates of supposedly "unique" items.
Small fiefdoms.
An actual princess.
All this and your could be yours for the low-low price of a shit-ton of money.
If a GM doesn't want to deal with this price range, don't let anyone get the wallet to use it.

==Selling Items==
Any item that can be purchased can be sold for half their market value.

*******Economic Skill Applications*************
(an aside: I like these skills because it gives social characters the ability to acquire better items for the party and thus allows the social character to have an effect in combat)

Sway/Power (Buy my shit dammit!): Make a contested roll with the merchant. Every degree of success is an extra 5% on the value of a sold item.

Sway/Courage (That seems a little, doesn't it?): When purchasing a single item, the player can make a contested roll to lower the price by 5% per success. A merchant won't even deal with you if you don't have enough money to at least pay the full price, though.

Sway/Wisdom (Let's cut a deal): When making a bulk purchase of equipment (such as ammunition or healing), a character can make a contested roll with the merchant and increase the bulk discount by level for every degree of success up to the number of times the bulk discount applies.

Take or leave whatever.

Frankly, I did not really do much editing to any of that. For this: you have my apologies.

Oh. And I also propose some additional 1XP talents that essentially allow a player to roll and keep and extra die when looking for hearts, magic, items, or ruppees respectively.

>>16007940
I like the look of this system. At first glance, I don't see any glaring errors and it seems to be well balanced. Not only that, but it's leagues ahead of anything we have on the wiki concerning economy.

And another bump.

I was just looking at the monsters lists and saw that some of the higher end ones have defense and attack keeps of greater than 4.

Are people expected to have keeps greater than 4 in their attacks by then?

(also humpty-bump)

>>16007701 and following

I like the scavenging system, though I think the pricing guide could use a lot of work.

First off, I think it would be best to base wallet sizes directly on OoT and MM -- starter wallet holds 100 rupees, the mid-level wallet holds 200, and the high-end wallet holds 500. This will mean prices should be adjusted to fit this scale.

Here are my thoughts on pricing:
>Ammunition
Seems reasonable as listed above.
>Pay-to-heal
Seems fine as-is, but I would suggest setting the discounts at increments of 6 mp, making it 5 rupees per full block recovered.
>Low-grade equipment
40 rupees is the price for a deku shield in OoT, so if we use the same wallet scale this price makes the most sense. The same price could also work for low-quality weapons.
Armor should probably cost more than shields, since it requires neither a free hand nor skill ranks to use. I'd say 50 rupees for flammable armor, and 75 or 100 for more durable chain or leather.

>>16010611
>Potions/fairies
The prices for basic potions seem fine, but I think 10 hearts might be a bit too much for red potions; 8 hearts (modelled after TP) might be more appropriate. Also, full-strength green potion should probably restore 24 mp so that it restores even multiple of blocks of mp.
Fairies for 50 rupees also sounds good, though IIRC, fairies in most games restore 6 hearts, so we should go with that.
>Bottles
I really don't like the idea of bottles being purchased often, given how important they are. Bottles should for the most part be important loot and quest rewards, not primarily purchased items. I'd say no more than one purchased bottle per character, and it should be fairly pricy, no less than 200 rupees.

>>16010624
>Duplicate items
I'm not sure if this is really a good idea. For one thing, it raises uncomfortable questions about why these things are only available if you already have one, and for another it dilutes the the party's reliance on one another for their unique skills. I'd recommend cutting this category entirely.
However, it would be acceptable to have certain simple items, such as bows, slingshots, bomb bags, and so forth available in the 50-200 rupee range, depending on what the item is. Stuff like bomb bags and slingshots would sit nicely around 50-100 rupees, while somewhat more advanced stuff like bows and boomerangs would be closer to 150 or 200.
>Legit weapons
I'd put the base price for decent weapons at 100 rupees, discounted to 75 or 50 if it's a replacement or duplicate.
>Medium armor
This should be no less than 100 rupees, and I'd lean more toward 150. Though discounts for replacements should of course be an option.

>>16010634
>Beginner spells
I'd just set a flat price in the 75-100 rupee range for all basic magic, regardless of whether it's a "duplicate" or not. I don't see much need to differentiate between "new" and "duplicate" spells.
>Blue potions
The details listed for blue potions seem pretty weak to me compared to how those potions work in the video games. Following the pattern of "weak" and "strong" variants, I'd recommend weak blue potions cost 45 rupees, refilling 4 hearts and 12 mp, with full-strength potions costing 90 and restoring twice that. This makes a full-strength blue potion equivalent to a combined red and green potion (according to revisions suggested in my post above).

>Heavy armor
Seeing as heavy armor is supposed to be a relatively rare thing in this system, I'd put the price no lower than 300 rupees, even accounting for discounts.

>>16010641
Something else to consider:
>Equipment upgrades
Improving weapons, armor, and shields to high-quality versions and/or adding special properties should be available in the 150-300 rupee range (high end for medium wallet, midrange for big). Exact pricing would vary by the details of the modification to be added, and subject to GM discretion. Examples of things that could be added:

>High-quality
+1/4h to damage increment for weapons, reduction value for armor/shields. Can only be applied once.
Recommended price: 200 rupees
>Energy resistance
Shields/armor only; reduces damage from a certain energy source (fire, cold, electricity, etc) by 1h per point of energy resistance (maximum 3 pts).
Recommended price: 100 rupees per point of resistance.
>Reinforced
Armor only; +1/4h to reduction, +1 mass.
Recommended price: 150 rupees
>Warded
Armor/shields only; damage reduction applies even against magic damage.
Recommended price: 200 rupees
>Reflective
Shields only; shield not only blocks spells, but can be used to reflect light or magic back at its source or to another target.
Recommended price: 300 rupees, or only.

>>16010643
Of course, we should also be sure to clarify that anything beyond consumables (ie, ammunition and bottle items), armor/shields that can be lost to fire or Like-Likes, and perhaps basic magic can be left entirely up to quest/dungeon-based distribution rather than being available in shops. Aside from those exceptions, just because an item has a price listed doesn't necessarily mean it is automatically available as a market purchase. You might have to go on a side quest to track down a blacksmith who can improve your sword, or complete a short bonus dungeon to find that coveted suit of heavy plate armor.


>>16010445
>Are people expected to have keeps greater than 4 in their attacks by then?
Yes, an experienced character should have more than 4 kept dice, since skill ranks add to your kept dice total. In fact, even a starting character can have a roll of 6k5 for their primary attack skill -- roll (4 Attribute + 2 skill) keep (4 Virtue + 1 skill).

Wow, that's strange. A couple of weeks ago a friend and I were also working on a Zelda pen and paper game. We have a good bit done, but we're still tweaking things.

Anyway good luck on your project.

>>16010643
All of your ideas also look good, and the pricing does look to be closer to the original material than the previous anon's.

I have a couple suggestions about equipment upgrades. First, have multiple obtainable upgrades like energy resistance scale up cost with each subsequent purchase. Next, I notice that Reinforced doesn't have a qualifier that says it can only be applied once; I think it should.

>>16013195
>First, have multiple obtainable upgrades like energy resistance scale up cost with each subsequent purchase. Next, I notice that Reinforced doesn't have a qualifier that says it can only be applied once; I think it should.

Both good points. I agree

>>16010677
Great minds think alike. So do idiots, but that's beside the point.

>>16010643
All of that seems reasonable to me.

I would have "high quality" add +1/2 heart to weapons with the Heavy quality though. That way we don't have Heavy weapons guys feel like their 2 attack per turn counterparts are overtaking them

>>16013195
50 Ruppees for a second upgrade and 100 Ruppees for a third and maybe as much as 300 Ruppees for a 4th (as long as it does not take you over 500)?

And in some defense of my original pricing scheme, I may have neglected considering Ruppees found outside of my scavenging system...

So yeah. If there be Ruppees in treasure chests then this new pricing system is better.

>>16010634
And as for duplicate items: I think GMs should consider including ways to get characters certain, more advanced, items through commerce. Maybe a party could really want/use an additional seed shooter or hookshot. But that can be DM discretion, of course.

Also, Zelda is rife with instances of vendors being "out" of an item, right up until you find it--or a related item--in a dungeon.

>>16015413
On the other hand, for vendors to only have one wooden shield is rather absurd. Full suits of plate armour or Hylian shields might be a different story.

While I know this isn't the current purview of the thread, I had one of my players ask me about Shadow Magic. He's modeling a Hylian wizard after Agahnim from A Link to the Past, knowledge hungry and wanting to know as much magic as possible.

Has this been considered in a previous thread? If not what are your thoughts fine sirs?

>>16017387
We currently have Kokiri weak to shadow magic, but we don't have any spells that have shadow damage on them. I'm sure we could work something in, we just haven't put any thought into it yet.

>>16017413

Alright then, I'm coming up with a few things for them so when we go back to magic I'll share what I've brewed up.

I can't find what I had written out for songs earlier in the week, but I was working on a song to make traveling large bodies of water easier, as well as a sort of song to divine hidden objects.

>>16015413
>And in some defense of my original pricing scheme, I may have neglected considering Ruppees found outside of my scavenging system...

I figured as much when I was reading over it. No worries!

Hey guys, sorry for the huge absence. I'll try and throw some more art down. While I get started on some, I am rather interesting in seeing if there are any games open for play.

>>16020491
CZ! Horray!

Also, bump.

How close to "complete" are you calling this? I'm thinking of using it for a game or two.

>>16021007
It's evidently at the playtest stage. Maybe.

>>16021160
More or less, yes. There are some areas that are somewhat lacking (for example, there are basically no techs for anything besides magic and weapon skills), but it is to the point where you could feasibly run a game.

Last night I explained to my players the system and went over character generation. The problem of starting money came up. When we get all of the economy stuff figured out, we need to determine whether we want to stick with the 3 equipment on chargen, or go with a rupee-buy system.

On another note, I came up with simple guidelines for creation of a dungeon and its contents. These were the questions I found myself asking to make the starter dungeon for my group.
>What is the setting?
>What/Who is the boss and why is he there?
>What is his weakness? (choose something that the players can't already do)
>What kind of tool can exploit this weakness?
>What kind of puzzle could you make to use this tool in a creative way?
>What kind of obstacle can you make that would require this tool to proceed?

I'll explain how I answered these questions for the dungeon as an example.
>Setting:
A spider infested mansion in Kakariko
>Boss:
Ghoma - grew from a normal spider due to magic from the BBEG
>Weakness:
Sound based attacks
>Tool:
A flute (normal instrument) that comes with a song -Devil Screech- that stuns arthropods.
>Puzzles/Obstacles:
I plan to have "streams" of spiders blocking progression and doors covered with spiders that attack when you try to touch it.

>>16025505
I think the three-item system would be the best way to do it, and have no starting rupees. It feels more Zelda-y to me, and it would be a real headache to balance things for a system where you buy starting gear.

>>16025505
>A spider infested mansion in Kakariko
I see what you did there.

Bump.

>>16025505

Devil's advocate here:

The problem with that set-up is that items (or rather, characters) will be very situational. So, in your example, you'll have your Physical Power and Physical Courage-based characters sitting around either doing nothing or dealing with mooks while your musician is the only one dealing major damage to the boss. Not all players have something to do, so not all players are having fun. Even if the item is something like a hookshot or Power Bracelet, characters who aren't suited to using that item will be left bored.

Bosses would have to be designed with the entire party in mind. For example, you could have the spidery-song hold your Gohma still, occupying a musician character, while, say, a Physical Power-oriented Goron wrestles it into position and a Physical Wisdom-oriented Zora uses bomb-arrows to drop stalactites on his head.

Boss strategies will have to evolve over the course of the battle, too. As stated in this post here...

>>15980482

...the standard formula of bosses in the games (that is, do the same thing three times and then win) just won't cut it. The players would have to use new strategies and use their items in different ways over the course of one boss battle.

Not trying to belittle your work (I actually think your proposal dungeon is quite good, and certainly better than any of the dumb dungeons I've come up with), but it's something to chew on.

Hey folks! Terribly sorry, real life intervened and I had to disappear for a while.

But I return, bearing gifts. Here's that Gerudo I got started on a few threads back.

>>16030413
I agree completely that the boss battle should involve every player. In my design with the sound-weak Gohma, I have Mage and a Heavy. The mage has skill in instrument, so I intend for him to use the instrument to stun it (which exposes a weakness), then the heavy damages it. The later phases involve putting out more gohma-spawn, leaving the battlefield, going on the ceiling, etc. When Gohma is not on the field, they will both be focusing on the spawn.

I understand that it would be much more difficult to make such a fight with each player you add to the equation, but since I've only got 2 to work with, it becomes rather simple. Thank you for your input.

Don't mind me, just dropping a bump before bed.

Bumping while working on content

Bump

I decided to do another Monster Scene like with the Dodongo and the Hylian I did a while back.

Heres a WIP between Like Likes and a Miniblinn.

>>16030956
So how about bosses that don't use spawn? What do the party lightweights do then?

>>16041326
I'll cross that road when I come to it. I'll post if and when I come up with a solution.

For quick-cards, what size should they be? Would MTG-sized cards be too small to write on?

>>16040174
Holy shit, I just realized who you are!

Two ideas I want to bring up.
In shadowrun the characters couldn't just use the magic items they looted from dead bodies, they had to attune to them by spending karma(exp), perhaps a similar system where during the dungeon they can all pass the item around and learn to use it. Then when the dungeon is over one of them decides they should focus on mastering it, allowing them greater powers or whatever. They could pay for the item all at once or 1 point a session. This could lead to a case where players don't want magic items, but If it is in line with other XP advances I don't think you'll have any problem

Another part of boss fights you need to consider is defending against boss attacks. The physical character can interpose himself between the boss and the weaker characters, the more clever characters can fool or distract.

I think we'll find we need to combine 2-3 bosses to get enough mechanics. I'm willing to take requests and give you a half hour rough.

>>16043750
On the whole, I don't think that item-attunement system is a good fit for a Zelda game; making players spend XP on an item would be pretty lame, and it doesn't really seem appropriate given the source material. However, I do like the idea of having items that fall under the |magic| skill bind/attune to a single character -- that would eliminate the one real mechanical distinction remaining between item-based and learned magic (namely, that items can be shared with other characters while learned spells can't). Don't make it cost XP or anything, but just choose a character to take it, and it binds to them. Maybe if the party changes their mind about it later they could change it up, but it would take some time to change the attunement of the item, meaning you couldn't just pass the item around whenever you feel like it.

Randomly found my way to this thread. Bumping just because this is what /tg/ should be more often. People willing to work. I can't tell you how many times I tried to do this with my morrowind PnP and the thread got ignored or people were just jackasses.

Keep up the good work. people like this are the reason I came here in the first place.

Thank you sincerely for putting in work on a homebrew. I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one willing to make stuff up anymore.

Anonymous

>>16044426
I suppose the players could always spend XP to develop new techniques with the item (Deku Rocket anyone?)

'>>15961596
We can get around having base items like bows or boomerangs with the simple addition of
Magic' A magic bow might have ricochet arrows, a magic boomerang may always attack a target from behind.

For the power bracelet, have you considered just having it affect the characters effective mass for lifting and perhaps grappling

>>16044882
We have already decided that we will have techniques for magic. The wiki already has ones for basic spells, but for advanced magic, we had decided that a "Spell Mastery" for any specific spell you have would be available (i.e. "Haste Mastery"). The mastery would allow you to use the spell in new and different ways like changing the area, shape, or use.

>>16044426
I'm not sure how I feel about the attunement thing, but I definitely agree that experience should not be required to use the spell.

Has anyone checked the wiki recently? it says tha 1d4chan is experiencing technical difficulties, i fear for our data.

>>16048527
Fear not. The site is fine and all is well. But as a precautionary measure Ill save the wiki page codes to a word doc.

So who feels like archiving the thread?
Sure, we're at 119 posts. But the last thread died around there.

>>16050013
I got this.
>http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15957628/

Also, as I was writing up the description, I hit on a better term for what we've been calling "scavenging" -- foraging. Still not perfect, but a good deal closer to the basic idea, anyway.

>>16050332
I think that "forage" isn't quite right because it implies you're looking for food. On the other side, "search" is too broad because it doesn't tell what you're searching for. "Scavenge" is the closest thing I can think of, but it's still not exactly right as it implies that your looking for useful things out of discarded materials.

Stupid English language. 170k words and we don't have one that identifies this situation.

>>16050530
Rummage
grub
ransack<- I like this one
prospect
seek

>>16050530
You're looking for useful things out of discarded pots, if that helps.

So anyways, that bump >>16034159? While school starting slows down progress and such, I was thinking about something.
Miniatures.
Obviously, most people here won't play this on a tabletop. But I find that I prefer that when gaming (or at least until I figure out maptool). And I realized that getting good minis for this game would be difficult at the very least.

The solution? Papercraft! And after searching /po/ for a while, I found Cubeecraft.
>pic related
>Source: cubeecraft.com
If you could made roughly WW/MC style characters, would anyone use these?

>>16050782
Scrounge! thats the one I forgot

>>16050785
Also, a rough idea for scaling the parts of it I suppose?

>>16050782
I'm not too sure that ransacking is really the right word...

Remember, you're looking for rupees, hearts and MP/Ammo. Perhaps have a seperate word for each if they're separate checks?

Oh hey, google gives Scour as a synonym for rummage.

>Scour
>Verb
>Search thouroughly