>>16121546
>I hate modern take on vampires and werewolves
I'm assuming you mean "Twilight". Don't worry, there's nothing of Meyer's fairyfaggotry within miles of White Wolf.

>>16121566
twilight too, but I also dislike Ann Rice's stuff too. I liked interview with the vampire movie, but once I dug a little deeper I lost SAN everywhere.

You want urban fantasy without vamps and werewolves?

Mage or Hunter, depending on just how fantastic you want your urbanites. Both sweet games. Both WW products.

>also is there a way to play regular joe people in the games? So many urban fantasy appears to be "you are not normal" variety.

The core nWoD rulebook is essentially "Mortal: the Pants Shitting"

Also to an extent Hunter: the Vigil works, too.

The Sabbat. What vampires are supposed to be like.

>>16121635
Why is it good though? That's what I'm basically asking in the thread.

I want to be sold.

The core WoD book doesn't actually have Vampires or Werewolves in it.

>>16121644
With Hunter being Mortal: the Let's Kill These Freaks

>>16121650

Basically, WoD is streamlined, modular, and simple. It relies on 10s and 5s, which is a plus for some people. The setting-specific "classes" are generally flavorful and each game plays extremely differently to the others.

I don't know your tastes so I don't know what to talk about.

>>16121650
>Why is it good though?
Its a fairly intuitive system with a modular sandbox modern supernatural setting that has lots of neat details if you take the time to read up on them. Also, most roleplayers are at least passingly familiar with it.

>>16121618
There's a minor bit of Rice influence for the antique aesthetic of the older vamps, but by and large, WW dips into all sorts of mythos for their vamps, depending on clan. The Ventrue have some notably Rice flavor, but the others quite less so. For example, the disfigured Nosferatu borrow from the Count Orlok tales, while the Gangrel borrow from the vampires-as-predatory-beast notion.

You say you've never played it - well, maybe you should, before you judge based on what you think might be there when you don't know if it is or not.

>>16121650
It... is a decent system. It has its flaws, like any system, but as long as you don't really play a combat-intensive game it should be ok. The biggest strength of the system (in my eyes) is the variety and the scope of material that is available in the form of different splat books and campaign material. I personally prefer the Dresden Files RPG for Urban Fantasy, but that is because I am sold on Dresden Files and a sucker for FATE.

>>16121546
>every urban fantasy thread always inevitably mention white wolf, and it's arguably one of the more popular systems.
By my perception it's the most popular after D&D.
>please /tg/ explain to me why white wolf is so good?
Well
the stat and skill system makes sense, and it's not a combat only system like some are. I mean, what makes it good depends on what you're comparing to.
>also is there a way to play regular joe people in the games?
That's the default.

>>16121650
It actually sounds like you're trying your hardest not to be sold at the same time. If you're wondering why it's good, download the PDFs, read 'em.

The system's an interesting one, it's quite efficient and clean-cut, allows for almost any action to have a roll assigned to it without any real difficulty.

Something that might make it or break it for you is the fact that it has a morality system of sorts - a scale from 10 to 0. Your actions will slowly affect your character's state of mind, provide derangements and if you're really that evil, turn your character into a person who is so insane they can no longer be played.

You can definitely play regular joes but unless you use the Hunter: the Vigil book, everything they could do a vampire or a werewolf could do better.

Actually, here's a question for YOU.

What do you want out of "urban fantasy"?

>>16121679
I personally prefer urban fantasy where people are more likely to be skeptical of the supernatural even for the PC's. Gators in the sewers, UFO sightings and such where a half eaten corpse would be identified with posthumous animal consumption before a cannibal.
>>16121692
eh, I have never seen people in /tg/ describe vampires anything other than cultured fang people.
>>16121696
Why can't it handle protracted combat? also what's the flaw?

>>16121566
>>16121566
>I'm assuming you mean "Twilight". Don't worry, there's nothing of Meyer's fairyfaggotry within miles of White Wolf.
players bloodline.

>>16121811
>I personally prefer urban fantasy where people are more likely to be skeptical of the supernatural even for the PC's. Gators in the sewers, UFO sightings and such where a half eaten corpse would be identified with posthumous animal consumption before a cannibal.

Oh, then WoD works for you then.

That's kind of the point. The only people who jump to the conclusion of a cannibal are people who've already seen shit.

Even if that wasn't the case, you can still have every NPC act sensible or have realistic conclusions, and try to keep your PCs to the same expectations.

>eh, I have never seen people in /tg/ describe vampires anything other than cultured fang people.

They have a culture, that doesn't mean all of them are "cultured." It'd be difficult to make a game based around being the monster if the monster was forced to be either non-sentient or an extreme hermit with hairy palms.

>>16121846

I think he meant the sparkling and vampires being capable of true emotion.

>>16121811
>I personally prefer urban fantasy where people are more likely to be skeptical of the supernatural even for the PC's
WoD is suitable to this.
>Why can't it handle protracted combat? also what's the flaw?
It can handle it, but if you run it as a string of fights, there will be a fair bit of PC death and there'll be two thirds of the system sitting unused.
Generally the most commonly perceived flaw is that guns trump tend to be the most powerful combat option.

Can I have this as an rpg please? kthanxbai

>>16121811
The system is designed to be a skill system, with combat more or less tacked on. Weapon rules are a bit unrefined and it can handle clunkily and tends to fall into a gap between abstraction and detail, trying to be both and acheiving neither.

This being said, it is by far not a bad system. It is streamlined and intuitive.

>>16121811
Dresden files might be better for you (I'm a fan of WoD saying that too).

In really enjoyed Unknown Armies for it's urban legend/conspiracy theory feel. It felt really gritty.

>>16121811
In Vampire: the Requiem, there's five Clans for vampires. Your Clan is judged by the vampire that bit you, they're essentially bloodlines.

Ventrue: Noble, aristocratic vampires who favour dominance and power over all else. They are dedicated megalomaniacs with an urge to control everything around them.
Daeva: Sexual, artistic, perfectionists. Unlike the Ventrue who dominate through sheer force of will and social power, they seduce and deceive their victims.
Gangrel: Bestial, primal, primitive. They're hunters, first and foremost. They're the sort of vampire that pounces on a victim in an alley like a mugger and drains 'em dry. First and foremost though, they're survivors.
Nosferatu: Horrifying, inhuman, dreadful. There's something wrong with them and everyone can tell. How they hunt varies but they aren't social. They're either hideously ugly or impossibly strange.
Mekhet: They're the stealthier cliche of vampire, the paranoid, secretive sort. They leave behind completely unaware victims who wake up in the morning, feeling light-headed.

>>16121912
I dunno, in DFRPG you tend to play within the supernatural community, and Mortal PCs tend to not fall in the Average Joe category. I think just basic Mortals in WoD would fit better.

WOD could work
Unknown armies or witchcraft could also work.

>>16121933
>sparkling vampires

The rules for that also state that people gain willpower for hating you. It was clearly meant to be a joke (if the title "Dudes of Legend" didn't tip you off...)

>>16121933
Dudes of Legend was the best 70 cents I ever spent.

>>16122016
no shit.

Play Mage or Changeling then.

>>16121875
>vampires being incapable of true emotion
Ugh. Why even put this into the system? It's just an unnecessary roleplaying constraint; if anything, you should only lose emotion as Humanity falls.

>>16122220
odd. i dont remember a ghost gay viking.

>>16122469
That guy who kills himself and then keeps appearing in Iceman's visions.

you can play mortal wod

>>16122403
Exalted?

>>16122529
Well, that was a non sequitur.

>>16122591
It's an opinion she has. Down to the very last word. Made me wonder.

>>16122489
last time i checked he neither a ghost nor gay nor a viking.

>>16121811

I'd like to second that you probably want dresden files. Clued in mortals are easily done; you just need some decent stunt investment in order to bend the rules in your favor, and make sure to bail or use heavy explosives once the fireballs start flying

>>16122685
Let's say I'm open to the possibility of it being me, and pretend that you won't dismiss the opinion and call me some variant of "retarded bitch" because it's me who's holding it. Is that acceptable?

>>16122688
Whatever, never really followed it, just found it hilarious that a guy from my school was in a series.

>>16122727
it is kinda hilarious that he makes tons of money and you spend your nights talking about him on the interwebs.

rolled 1 = 1

>>16122724
Relax, I know you a bit better than that.

>>16122766
Don't get me wrong I'm happy for the guy, I just still think it's funny.

>>16121729
>By my perception it's the most popular after D&D.
Your perception would be correct. WoD is second largest RPG in the business and has been for decades now.

>>16122784
All right. I may or may not be slightly bitter.

Anyway. No, I still don't like that aspect of Requiem, especially since "you can't have real emotions" is applied to no other RPG in existence that I can think of. It's an incredibly intimate violation of your ability to play your own character.

>>16122403
It's meant to constrain role-playing. That's a big part of WoD. They give you fairly tight restraints on your character to actually force you to think about your actions.

>>16121876
why is guns trumphing everyhting a bad thing?

shouldn't guns be powerful in a modern setting?

>>16122900
Then allow me to ask this; what does the game gain by it?

>>16122870
I figured, after the number of times I disappeared on you folks like that after promising games and so on. Was pretty downright rude of me but I'll admit, I've got a case of nerves.

As for what you're saying, It all depends on what you think "real emotions" are. Vampires can feel emotions but they are just memories. Comparisons. You might love someone like you loved a highschool sweetheart, for example. However, you won't feel anything... New, or different. They'll remind of things you felt before. It's interesting and it's challenging but I understand that you might not be interested in that and fair enough.

>>16122900
It forces you to have a more simplistic roleplaying experience than, say, D&D. The game tries HARD to have something to do with horror, but your chars literally do not give a shit and are categorically incapable of giving a shit.

>>16122951
Put better than I thought. The best you can really do is have your players be horrified at your characters.

>>16122951
Of course you give a shit. Humanity is, literally, the levels of humanity you've managed to retain. The person you're describing is very low down on the scale. In fact, not feeling emotions is what causes you to lose Humanity.

At humanity 7 you would still feel fear, guilt, anger, whatever. It's just that the emotions are reflections of those you felt in life.

>>16123014
And what does this distinction do? How does it benefit the game? How does it help any damned thing whatsoever?

>>16122908
Yes and no. It makes wasting space in anything else pointless. Unless you are fighting vampires, for which by all means grab that broadsword.

Basically the World of Darkness games are
WoD core (Mortals the Victimizing)
Vampire The Requiem
Werewolf The Forsaken
Mage The Awakening
Changling the lost (Fairy the rape-victiming)
Promethean the Created (Frankenstien the being Persecuteding)
Hunter the Vigil (All of the Above the Victimizing.)

Ask about any you wish and Ill answer as best I can.


Also, apparently they are making a new Mummy game, which i wanna see. My friends used to joke about that but now we wonder what they are gonna do.

>>16123032
How does it hinder the game?

>>16123063
Well, it's bugging the shit out of me to know that I can never experience any new emotions, or actually experience any emotions ever.

>>16123079
It's a curveball, something that forces you to play something stranger than human, to challenge you as a roleplayer.

>>16123096
I already got that when I had a lunatic monster inside of me, a craving for blood, and an inability to see daylight. In any case, all the other gamelines allow you to play something nonhuman without stripping you of emotion.

>>16123032
>>16123079
Then don't play vampire. To put this in the kindest possible way, WoD has a large focus on personal horror. In Werewolf's case, your emotions are all larger than life. In Changeling's case, you can't tell the difference between dreams and reality. In Vampire's case, you're a corpse that refuses to accept that it's dead.

If you don't want that personal horror, then don't play the game.

>>16123014
"They have emotion-like thingies but they're not REAL emotions" is as ham-fisted and random of a way to inject artificial angst into an RPG. No one knows even what the fuck that means, or how it should be roleplayed.

>>16123096
The whole beast and blood drinking thing does fine as far as that is concerned, as Requiem vampires are as strange as you can get.

REPRASENT, motherfuckers!

All the good parts, none of the Twilight bullshit.

>WoD has a large focus on personal horror.

In vampire, you play an emotionless character who only cares about drinking blood. In other words, vampire cannot be a game about personal horror because vampires cannot care about anything other than drinking blood. Its more a game about surreal black comedy than anything else.

>>16123052
Also: Geist: the Badassing, Hard-Partying, Ghost-Hunting Dead People. Who got better.

>>16123124
The emotion stripping part is incorrect. There are emotions, they're just not new emotions. It's something to make the character and the player realised that they're no longer human. If you want, you're free to remove that aspect from the game but it could add a lot to someone else's game.

In short, it provides a personal question: "If I am no longer human, why should I behave as one?" and no, the blood drinking and the Beast are not enough.

There are still people out there who would rather play vampires as changed humans, along the vein of Changeling when it simply isn't the case. They're no longer human. They can't relate to human. They're a whole other animal and this is added to slam that point into the player's face, I suppose.
For a personal game though, you're free to ignore that, as well as any other snippets of fluff you dislike.

>>16123166
That's the horror. You're a monster that desperately clings to vestiges of humanity. You have enough of your emotions left to care about not having emotions.

>>16123166
Each game focuses on a question, a moral issue. White Wolf tries to be DEEP like that. For Vampire, they seemed to focus on the descent from humanity and what it does to a person when they no longer even think like a human.

>>16123211
Well, if I ever do join a game, my strategy is to simply ignore that aspect because I find it incredibly asinine. But I suppose if people want it, they can have it; I just wonder why it was said to apply to all Kindred.

>>16123232
Which questions are those?

>>16123246
What kindred wouldn't it apply to?

>>16123181
Right.

I for got

Giest the Sin-Eaters (Mortal the Fuck-Yeahening)

>>16123232
White Wolf is as DEEP as you play it to be. If you want to spend the entire game soliloquising about your monstrous nature, that's fine, but the game's default is that you try to explore the issues more naturally.

>>16123258
Those with a Humanity over about 5, ideally.

>>16123246
I hate to break it to you, but you're planning to make a special snowflake.

If you don't want to play the game, don't play the game.

>>16123232
There's nothing official anywhere. I guess it's how I look at the situation.

"I'm not human anymore, why should I act like one?"
"I have the power. Why shouldn't I become a God?"
"Everything's changed, even me. What should I do now?"
etcetera.

>>16123295
To use your argument, low-humanity vampires already have enough things seperating them from their humanity - why do they need this as well?

>>16123319
If there's no outward obviousness of it and I don't talk about it, why would it be a problem?

>>16123339
If you had to use it at all, I mean. I would have no problem with jettisoning it entirely.

>It's something to make the character and the player realised that they're no longer human.

Except no one, including yourself, has ever began to explain how it goes about doing so, or how a vampire should behave differently in a given situation. The very, very most anyone has ever done is to say "oh yeah, well when you feel X, its like that one time from life" which still explains nothing at all.

>If you want, you're free to remove that aspect from the game but it could add a lot to someone else's game.

Unlikely, since it introduces literally zero conceivable roleplaying possibilities or story hooks, and no one can even begin to explain what this means. The closest is "well when you feel love now, its the same love you felt towards a specific girl from your breathing days" which is more like saying "when vampires feel a given emotion strongly, they tend to be reminded OF their living days." Which is fine. Unnecessary and forced, but fine.

>what it does to a person when they no longer even think like a human.

It gives them Vampire Alzheimers. Next question? The moral of the story is, kiddos, keep your humanity at 7+. Problem solved.

>>16123322
It is official, it's just not phrased as a question. Every gameline has a theme. Mage's theme is, as you suggest, "Power Corrupts." You have amazing power, why shouldn't you use it?

>>16123365
There isn't any convincing you, you're free to think what you will. However, I'll stick with the point that the blood-sucking and lack of sunlight isn't enough to prevent most people from roleplaying a vampire as anything other than a normal human.

That was a big issue with oWoD - gothic superheroes everywhere.

>>16123406
In general the developers really didn't have much of a clue about the games they were making at all. VtR is the biggest example, in that they were intended to be the most socially adept splat when they are by far the worst, (except for social interactions with long term NPCs) and that they had no idea what the repercussions of Predator's Taint would be, while Forsaken were intended to be the "physical" oriented splat, but are vastly less RIP AND TEAR than, say werewolves.

>>16123415
It's just... I accept the notion of personal horror, but I don't believe horror can be a permanent state. It either turns into jaded depression or you finally find a way to leave it behind. You can be horrified repeatedly by different things, but I don't think it's feasible for the same thing to continue horrifying you for your entire existence.

Also, it reminds me way too much of actual depression.

>>16123415
Humanity vs the Beast is about a thousand times as important a conflict in Requiem than in Masquerade (due to Paths of Enlightenment being gone) and as such vampires will indeed play wildly different than human characters. There's definitely no need for some vague malaise of permanent angst.

>>16123166
You know, I've never heard Vampire described as a black comedy, but thinking about it now, that makes a lot of sense.

>RE: Why don't vampires have emotions?

Think about it this way. Let's say there are two stories:
>A vampire falls in love with a human and manages to constrain his blood-lust in order to live happily with her. True love conquers all.
>A vampire decides to be in love with a human because he wants to delude himself into thinking he's not a stagnating corpse.

>>16123457
Most vampires descend into that jaded state. It's canon. They stop caring about their memories so much and they act more like sentient predators, each Clan with their own twist but all just as ruthless as the other.

The only vampires who can ever climb out the depression are the rumoured few who reach that state of... Gehenna, I think it's called. Forgot the name.

Anyway, WoD isn't the best system to escape from grimdark reality with.

>>16123559
Golconda, I think? I don't know what the nWoD version's called.

For all the people saying the vamps have no emotions, I certainly don't remember that from the book, I could be wrong but as I recall they have very subdued emotions.

Hard to feel empathy, hard to get passionate about something, that's why the culture is so stagnant, they never feel that strongly about anything but get to live forever, eternally sort of remembering what it was like to have stronger human emotions.

I'm pretty sure that's why the Danse Macabre started too, since they had to find SOMETHING to occupy their time with.

Note I could be totally wrong as it's been a while since I read the Requiem book but that's how I remember it.

>>16123520
If you look at it in a certain way, the entire WoD is a black comedy.

>I lost all my emotions, so now I spend decades on end just being really bored.
>I'm too wolfy to be human and too human to be a wolf. I'm also half-spirit, but all spirits hate me.
>I once spent 18 years as a tree.

>>16123546
Ho ho ho, false dilemma. If "you want to delude yourself" you obviously have emotions.

Also,

>A vampire decides to be in love with a human because he wants to delude himself into thinking he's not a stagnating corpse.

Keep your Twilight, thanks.

>>16123601
Golconda! That's it. The two settings share the same name for it.

All this talk of tragedy, but no mention of Promethean?

I guess it fits the theme of the game that no one talks about it ever.

>>16123457
>Also, it reminds me way too much of actual depression.
maybe something called world of DARKNESS isn't the game for someone who doesnt want something that's dark.

>>16123457
>Also, it reminds me way too much of actual depression.
That's pretty much the point. WoD might as well be called "Mental Problems: The Therapy."

Of course, you're free to play it any way you want.

>>16123629
Dang, you're right.
>Prometheans are very very few and mostly hated by the world
>P:tC is rarely (if ever) played and mostly forgotten by the gaming scene

>>16123616
As mentioned above, you do have emotions, they're just muted reflections.

>Keep your Twilight
Ever read Twilight? If it had nuance it wouldn't be so hated.

SO IN OTHER NEWS

I have always liked the Ordo Draculu trying to become like beyond vampire, however, I have never been able to mentally grasp what such a creature would be like, despite wanting to put one in my game as some sort of NPC.

In your opinion /tg/ what would a Ordo Vampire 2.0 be like?

>>16123672
From what I hear, it's almost impossible to play.

>>16123640
I'm not sure. I think it'd be interesting to fight back against the darkness without playing Hunter.

Also, Exalted, any way of getting in touch with you again? Figure I might as well try and say sorry for a couple of things.

>>16123688
As you can see from the Coils, their method of improving is my mitigating their flaws.

Basically, the perfect Ordo Dracul would just be a normal bloke with super-powers.

>>16123688
Possibly the Tzimisce Eldest. In other words, really fucking scary.

>>16123692
Not impossible, but it's tough.

The only time I've done it, I GMed for my fiancee. That was a fucking awesome game. Deep and soul-searching, and I focused every session about a new facet of her search to become human. Really tough game to run, but it was so worth it when she finally achieved Mortality.

In fact, I'd say that was the best game I've ever played.

>>16123698
It's best not to do that when you're a force of darkness, such as a vampire.

For those wondering why a vampire would experience a gradual stripping of humanity, hopefully this can help put it in this perspective.
Remember that as a vampire, you are immortal. That is a crucial component. Your body never changes - each night you rise with the same hair, same scars, same fingernail length, same everything as the night of your Embrace. You never change, and yet the world around you changes a little bit each night. Before you know what happened, you've been around for 50 years. You still feel more or less the same, but the mortal society around you has drastically changed, probably 5 distinct times already since your death. Then even sooner, it's been 100 years, and that change in humanity seems even MORE drastic. You might think that you would keep up with the times, sure. But you've been around for 120, or 150, or maybe even 170 years already, and you've seen trends change so many times that you've grown numb to them - they are just something mortals do to occupy their short time on earth. Changes in fashion, language, geography, politics, even technology become irrelevant for a being of such age and wisdom as you. Why should you waste so much of your time on something so trivial?

By the time you've gotten to this point in your unlife, you've also committed thousands upon thousands of repetitions of an act that makes rape and grand theft seem petty in comparison. You've seen more pain, sadness, suffering and death than several entire generations of people could see.

Do you really think you could still feel really human?

>>16123706
Do you have AIM? If so, what is it?

>>16123651
>Play it how you want

We always played it as a madcap action movie, bursting in with guns blazing and brutally drinking the blood of our victims before they died.

Shit exploded everywhere. Our Hunter group honestly entertained the idea of capturing a vampire alive and feeding him just enough blood in the basement to keep him regenerating his teeth (the severed fang was our proof of staking) for infinite monies, since we kept blowing up buildings to kill off high-profile Elders, and being unable to locate their fangs in the wreckage.

The fluff is just that: fluff. The mechanics support any type of game.

>>16123682
If twilight weren't abject shit it wouldn't be hated must be what you meant to say. The stories, the situations, the characterizations, everything about it was asinine. FFS, there was a book that could have been solved in what? About five seconds with a text message? Yeah, that bit of technology that they used the fuck out of in other books...oh wait, in that book too!

Please, that series is indefensible. Not as bad as Anita Blake/Sookie Stackhouse, but still pretty fucking bad.

>>16123698
Most of the supernaturals can fight against the darkness.

Nothing intrinsically evil about Mages, Sin-eaters, Werewolves, or Changlings.

Course could always do mortals as well, though I suppose a mortal who KEEPS fighting against the darkness sort of by default morphs into a Hunter.

>>16123741
'fraid not. I guess you stay away from IRC these days?

>>16123777
Well, right now I'm lurking in the suptg server, if you'd like to give me your name there.

>>16123758
Exactly. If it actually looked like someone had spent more than five seconds thinking about the story and characterization it wouldn't get the same amount of hate.

If a Lucifuge is played well he can be an interesting character and not a MY MOM WAS DEMON RAPED CRAWWWLLINNGG INNN MY SKINNN.

No on believes me. But I'll prove it some day.

>>16123610
Changeling is darkly comedic too, but mainly I was referring to it on a rules basis, how Benny Hill happens when two vampires meet, and how elders wake up, often with lots of power still, but don't know what the hell happened or what telephones and cars are.

>>16123810
...well fuck, if you put it that way, AIDS wouldn't be hated if instead of fucking up your immune system, it made guys cum taste like chocolate.

>>16123672

A natural consequence as to how the authors foolishly focused on ramping up the angst factor as high as it could go instead of having an interesting game about the ramifications of artificial life.

>>16123814
>>16123814


And vampires everywhere suddenly flip their fucking shit when Elders wake up.

>>16123833
WoD games are almost always about the human psyche rather than stuff that intricate.

>>16123825
That's true, but can be taken for granted.

Basically, the concept of "vampire and human have a relationship" isn't unsalvageable. If someone rewrote Twilight but made it more nuanced and less... moronic it could be a good book.

I could never play Promethian because every time I hear "You play a Frankenstein" "So you are like Frankenstein right?" "A Promethian is like a Frankenstein."

Frankenstein was the man not the monster, which had no name, and yes I know caring about that makes me a HUGE faggot but I just can't help it.

Consider it a personal flaw.

>>16123814
what is this benny hill thing?

>>16123838
Because usually Elders got their blood so potent they could only feed on vamps. The other vamps were like 'nuoh my blood' and flip shit.

>>16123899
I tend to say "you play something similar to Frankenstein's monster." is that better, dr mcassclown?

>>16123899
Believe me, they made that distinction quite clear in the books. Frankenstein's monster is still quite pissed about it.

>>16123914
Yes, and I apologize to humanity for being the fuck who can't let that go but it's like an OCD tick.

>>16123889
I guess I take your point...still fairly believe it goes without saying, but then again the massive lack of taste when it comes to popular entertainment is capable of liking anything...

>>16123833
You don't really get WoD do you?

You are placed in a situation with the potential for maximum angst. You're then meant to role-play. Those who give in to the angst are NPCs.

Your life has been snatched away. You can't connect with anyone else. If you lose control bad thing happen. What do you do?

>>16123899
Many creators name their creations after themselves.

>>16123889
I personally like BloodSucking Fiends by Christopher Moore.

It is quite absurd and funny as hell, but it doesn't stop the character interactions from being real and touching.

>>16123833

That would be Transhuman: the Machining instead. Frankenstein's monster wasn't supposed to be its own life form, but an artificially created human, which it could only be a pale imitation of, and Promethean reflects that.

when do we archive this thread? This is an excellent discussion.

OPs picture got me thinking what a shit-hole Silent Hill would be if it existed in the World of Darkness.

An already dark reflection of a place in a world that is a dark reflection of the real world.

EVERYBODY'S GETTING PYRAMID HEADED

>>16123994
Nah. In WoD, Silent Hill would be almost normal and dull. Hard to out-creepy what's already creepy.

>>16123980
Ya but Victor did not, he only ever called it like fiend, demon, ogre, thing, ect.

The monster was real mad.

I'm still actually kinda curious about what that Benny Hill thing is? I've heard it said a few times but have no clue what it refers to...

>>16123986

Frankenstein's monster was fucked up solely because the power to create life was given to an ignorant and selfish human who could not respect his own creation. Misery made him a fiend. Its like many abusive relationships.

>>16123967
Actually, the books encourage the non-angsty types (Deniers, who are only mentioned like twice, and Centimani) only as NPCs.

>>16123994
>which it could only be a pale imitation of,
Not really. The monster was better than most humans in every way. Sadly he was really ugly,

I tend to look at Frankenstein less as a story about the horrors of science, and more as an allegory about not seeing things through. Basically, feel free to make a monster, just don't bug out and run away when it wakes up.

>>16124035
OH GOD WHAT IS THA...oh it's just an armless guy that spits acid, thought it was something bad.

>>16124057
Also don't be ugly.

>>16124056
>Centimani
They're basically Prometheans who have decided that becoming human is too hard so they become a monster. They may wrap it up in lies and pretend that they're exulting in their monstrous nature, but ultimately they've just given up.

>>16123811
Speaking of the Lucifuge, do any of the source books ever explain their mysterious immortal leader lady, or is that up to the ST if he ever wants to flesh that out?

>>16124047
>Oh hello the-Ah!
>cue chase scene.
Basically, when two vampire meet it can end up with the two chasing each other around.

>>16124114
That lesson doesn't need to be included in novels.

>>16124140
Ah, thanks.

>>16124140
To clarify his statement, when two vampires meet their inner predator nature makes them have a supernatural dick comparing contest and one might try to attack the other if he can't control himself.

>>16124140
to clarify, this is because nWoD vamp has this baby-retarded rule where the first time two vamps meet, they flip the fuck out and try to kill eachother or run like hell from eachother. makes sense, right?

>>16124169
>>16124173

Claritymind

>>16124140
of course its fairly easy to pass those rolls if you arent a mindless beast.

>>16124115
Not just too hard, but many a created has become a promethean when they sorrowfully discover that humans have problems too, some just as bad as their own, like mortality.

>>16124173
>makes sense, right?
yeah actually it kinda does. you got a supernatural beast inside of you that wants to devour the rest of your kind. it makes sense that it sometimes attempts to do so.

>>16124244
I actually have a question about this

Now as I recall, one of the rules of the Masquerade is don't feed on other vampires, but older vampires can't feed on anything BUT other vampires correct?

Am I remembering this wrong or is that rule like "Don't talk about fight club" in that it's casually broken a lot.

>>16124244
The problem is the way in which it attempts to do this. You flip out and either try to do anything in your power to kill the other vampire or to flee. I wouldn't mind if it just encouraged or rewarded being a bitch.

>>16123181
Fuck yes Geist.
Also has the distinction of being the least emo or fatalistic about all of this.

You know who isn't dead?
Can YOU guess who instead got upgraded like some giant-mecha halfway through a series?

You're here to haunt ass and chew bubblegum. and you're all out of ass.

>>16124289
You're allowed to feed on other vampires. It's encouraged in fact, as it forms vinculum, which is a powerful form of control. However, you're not allowed to diablerise other vampires, which involved draining them dry then sucking out their soul.

>>16124324
"Oh god, the afterlife is shit, and I can only avoid it by having other people die in my place, and I have an evil ghost that talks to me. But fuck that shit, let's PAAAAAAAAARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!"

>>16124339
Gotcha gotcha, soul sucking tends to be frowned upon.

>>16124289
>>16124309
so your problem is that is forces you to do so instead of rewards you for doing so? why dont we just do away with all frenzy provocations?

>>16124339
>vampires
>having a soul

what did i fucking miss between o and nWoD

>>16124371
Unless your a lawyer.

This is my Cheiron Group hunter.

>>16124406
uhh they had souls in both. hence why you can each other vamps souls in both, or for that matter sell them.

>>16122403

But you're dead. Like, dead dead. You don't have a soul anymore, hell, you're a walking, talking Abyss engine if you believe the Pentacle and the Strix. You're humanity is gone, baby.

>>16124406
oWoD and nWoD are COMPLETELY different fluff.

Virtually no similarities between old and new WOD vamps besides them being vampires.

>>16124350
Pretty much. Sin-Eaters are awesome-tier.

This is what I expect from Vampires

>>16124406
They have "something" that functions as a crude soul.

>>16124350
Also, while the Underworld itself may suck, you have friends who can get you out of that shit straightaway.

>>16124387
There's also the fact that Vampires are meant to be the social splat, but they have too many barriers against being social.

>>16124538
i do believe you misunderstand what they meant by social. they didnt mean run around loving and fucking everyone as you talk about why you're on team edward.

they're a splat that has forced itself to come up with hardcoded societal rules and interactions in order to stop themselves from wiping each other out. this results in them actually dealing with each other far more than most other splats have actual reasons too.

>please /tg/ explain to me why white wolf is so good?
It's not. It's just that the World of Darkness is not inherently terrible.

It's success is due to several factors. Among them is that the game system itself is adequate (which on it's own is enough to set it ahead of a lot of RPG systems,) The gothic allure of Vampire: The Masquerade drew a lot of people into RPGs that otherwise would not have considered them, and they kept an aggressive update and release schedule that provides a similar illusion of player support that TSR (and now Hasbro) maintained with their semi-constant content updates.

But probably the single greatest cause of the great popularity of White Wolfs' games is luck.
When TSR died, White Wolfs' flagship product already had a relatively recognisable brand name and a gaping void in the market that someone could fill. As far as anyone knew, Wizards of the Coast were going to rape the D&D IP to death, leaving only an overpowered Elmister utra-rare in some future edition of MtG, and the FLGS had a huge chunk of shelf-space to fill.

Four years later, D&D was back with a vengeance, thanks to a rushed release and the power of the infinite money-engines of Hasbro, but the World of Darkness had gleaned enough time as the best game in town to keep a significant market share, and the rest is history.

TL;DR it's an ill wind that blows no good.

Someone archive this.

Just going to leave this here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteen_Bullets_%28novel%29

http://www.davidwellington.net/uncategorized/1/

>>16124667
Unfortunately, these days WW seems to be totally disinterested in getting product on store shelves, and most FLGSs are just stopping carrying their lines. If POD works, that's great for online stuff, but terrible for getting new people into the hobby.

Unless they're relying on the WoD MMO to carry them through it. CCP (their new bosses) might be behind this attitude, and since the takeover their releases have slowed massively.

>>16124504
Yeah, basically, Death sphere mages are able to fuck with SOMETHING about vamps.

>>16124703
its kind of hard to get products onto shelves when you've basically stopped printing. it just wasnt generating the type of money they need to continue.

>>16124703
their releases have slowed massively as they no longer have to drop a book every month to keep the company afloat. this allows them time to actually work on the projects they want. Of course this should result in better editing but fucking white wolf...

>>16124781
Yeah, I've been tempted to work at Scribendi just on the off chance I'd get a shot at a WW book.

Because I'm positive I'd do a better job than whatever online chucklefuck is currently in charge.

>>16124350
You're thinking more "wraith".
Becoming a Geist has a few things to it. First, you'll have already had some occult awareness; most of those that become one could already sense death, ghosts or some related tidbits before. You didn't have an imaginary friend because slimer's fucking real, sort of sense.

Next, you have to be in a condition where you could possibly survive (getting squashed under a cargo container, or pink-misted point-blank in the vitals or face by a shotgun ain't gonna get you a second chance) and have to have extremely high desire for survival. Its called a "bargin" for a reason; it can be refused.

Geists are more 'alien mind' than necessarily evil, because they're not quite ghost anymore. Its deliberately left vague on their exact nature/history but from what IS stated, they're effectively old entities with no real anchors that have more of a tendency to be associated with some concept. In general however their primary 'deal' is they like keeping living things living and dead things dead. Eating ghosts and/or people is going to really destablize the two of you, not that you can truly split without both of you coming to an end. Only at 1-0 synergy does the geist start acting out like old AD&D Ego weapons, and being able or willing to take over. Most of the time (say, at 7) you just barely get mild feelings that it likes or dislikes some course of action, like the old 'empathy' weapons.

The biggest problem, really, is that being supernaturally-aware and most advantaged by 'resolving anchors' (as opposed to just eating the fuckers though you CAN do that too) means you quickly get known as the local afterlife IT Helpdesk

Imagine if Macho Man Randy Savage got out of his car wreck, back flipped into the Ecto-1, decided he didn't need a proton pack and just piledrives Vigo the Carpathian into the Underworld while wearing the mask of a legendary dead luchadore. That's Geist.

>>16124868
I prefer to go FINAL FUSION and fist a train into their out-of-phase buttocks

>>16124406
Owod vampires definitely, canonically, had souls.

Nwod is schizophrenic.

>>16124868
And this is a good thing, right?

>>16124936

YES.

>>16124997

>>16124868
Its predecessor, Orpheus, was the X-files mixed with "Dead Like Me" (and removing the fucking aliens ofc). It was oWoD with everything except for ghosts and the underworld removed.

>>16124860
You do become less-human though as you go with your geist's "whims". Your morality scale is replaced by your sync-ratio with your new other-half-soul.

Instead of the usual 'humanity' scale, what gets you derangements is a denial of what you have become (an interdimensional diplomat and part-time area-denial superweapon). Doing your best to truly "stay human" and ignore your new, masks-off, unveiled reality, is gonna quickly put you at odds with the half of you that IS an other-worldly entity. You don't necessarily want to follow its every whim, especially the more violent ones, but you need to at least try and follow the rules of world/underworld interaction, and at least give the same level of caring about folks trying to destroy the memories/anchors/existence of that dead dude down the street as if some asshole was scratching your buddy's car.

>>16125016

I keep hearing good things about Orpheus. Supposedly it would work very well in nWoD as a conspiracy using Hunters and Sin Eaters. I have yet to read, it though.

>>16124703
>and since the takeover their releases have slowed massively.
They claim that the "merger" allows them to finally get off the supplement treadmill. Now they don't need to release sub-par products just to pay their wages, they do it for fun.

>>16125139
See, I find that argument sort of bogus, because everything that isn't for the main lines has been fucking gold.

>>16125160
Since like Promethean in 2006.

>>16125139

That was the creepiest picture out of Montreal by Night, which was possibly the best supplement I had ever read for V:tM. It doesn't help that I'm from the Montreal area, but I can confirm that every bit of history in that book is true. Montreal has a fucked up backstory ripe for any WoD campaign.

You may now resume your discussions.

>>16125224
>white wolf does their research
>people are still surprised by that

>>16125139

I don't understand the point of the strapon.

>>16125255

Bitch got fucked to death in a rave's mensroom urinal.

Welcome to Montreal. We don't fuck around.

Unless it's going to kill you.

>>16125255
Well, some people don't have a peepee like you and daddy. We call those people "girls".

>>16122717

Playing a mortal being feasible is one of the main ideas behind Dresden Files. The whole balance between Power and Free Will and all.

OP is back

was doing stuff on the side. Ate some roast beef for dinner.

so what's the power ranking between the books?

The core: Mortal the shittening seems to be bottom on the bottom tier of power, but unsure about the rest.

>>16125567
Mages are without a doubt at the top of the "pure rape" scale. Geists are a bit behind but not by too much. Changelings are either mid tier or low tier depending on how much you can optimax pledges.

>>16125079
Orpheus is indeed great and was the playable version of Wraith oen had been waiting for.

>>16125246
They didn't do the research, the farmed the writing out to the local LARP community.
Seriously, that's how it worked in those days.

>>16125567
From most powerful to least:

Mage
Changeling with clever players
Geist
Promethean
Vampire
Changeling with straightforward players
Werewolf
Hunter
Mortal

>>16125567
Mage >>> Sin-Eaters >> Changelings/Prometheans > Vamps/Werewolves > Tier 3 Hunters >> Tier 1/2 Hunters > Mortals

Is about right.

>>16126019
I'd say that tier 3 hunters are more powerful than werewolves. Also consider that Changeling power level varies wildly based on whether the character has appropriate specialization and how effective the player is with pacts and talecrafting, and Sin Eaters can vary a bit based on the ingenuity applied in the use of their powers.

I'd say most powerful is a toss-up between Mages and Geists, only because Geists don't risk unmaking themselves when they use their powers. Prometheans, Vampires, Werewolves, Hunters, Mortals. Werewolves are sometimes put below Mortals as a joke, because they're pretty gimp. Changelings are a wild card in that their contracts can theoretically screw over any of the others.

so about the mages.

how obvious are they in their magic?

do they sling fireball left and right or are they like warhammer wizards where they melt their faces off for trying to light a match?

>>16126336
It depends. Paradox is a bitch sometimes if they want to be blatant in front of mortals, but if they're in their sanctum anything goes.

>>16126336
It's unwise to be blatant. Reality gets pissy about it.

>>16126336

If you're too obvious in Mage reality starts to fuck up.

>>16126421

Specifically, it almost always starts to fuck *you* up.

Mages are pretty busted. They could fix a lot of it by lowering the cap on their "boosting" abilities, but then again
>White Wolf
>errata
>game-balance
lol

That said Tier 3 Hunters probably vary the most wildly on power. Some Hunters will have abilities that pretty much shut down an entire splat. On the note of Mages, there is at least one ability in the Knights of Saint George conspiracy that we've deployed with absolute brutality to bring down mages one at a time. I forget the name, but basically you get a guy to cut the shit out of himself, then cover his wounds up with a coat or something and casually walk within 5 yards of a Mage. Mage will then lose access to a scalable amount of his spells, at which point the rest of the team pops out and rapes the mage.

>>16126460
My DM was telling me about this one time when he ran a Mage game. Newbie was lobbing fireballs and doing all sorts of stupid, obvious shit, and reality was getting pissed off. His character died when two houses body-checked him.

>>16125079
The complete publishing:
>http://www.mediafire.com/?b4yo1047gbup4p5
Core rulebook which presents the setting, and each splatbook being a new chapter in the metaplot/campaign plus introducing new "classes"/spectres/mechanics.
Oh, and there's a surprisingly well-written and edited fanbook in there too.

>>16126336
Story goes something like this:
In ancient times, mages lived in a magical utopia like Gods.
It wasn't enough for them.
So they gathered enough power to ascend into the heavens and overthrow whatever dwelled there, so they could live as true Gods.
In order to stop anyone from trying to usurp or replace them, they proceeded to fuck reality over to the point where it views magic as dangerous, foreign bacteria.
And paradox is the white blood cells coming along to fuck up said bacteria.

If reality clues on to the fact that your spells are in fact, magical, it will usually do everything in its power to eliminate you. It's usually pretty fucking successful, too.

In case you can't tell, Mage is a setting all about POWER and how to use it.

>>16126537
I take it this is in the new edition of the WoD games.... The old edition had Mages as potentially the most powerful beings in existence. You didn't have 'spells' you remade reality to your whim.

What the list of books for hunter?

>>16125160
The limited lines benefited from being just that. They were forced to cover everything in as few books as possible, so they didn't have supplement bloat.

>>16129768

Too many to list, you can find them all here:

http://www.4shared.com/folder/NDmuzoaM/

>>16129768
Core (Hunter: The Vigil)
Vampire hunters (Night Stalkers)
Werewolf hunters (Spirit Slayers)
Mage Hunters (Witch Finders)
Serial killers (Slasher)
Horror Recognition Guide.

>>16131537
I highly recommend Horror Recognition Guide. One of the best fluff books I've ever read, and any sort of GM/ST that likes to throw weird monsters and places at their players will benefit from reading it.

Anyone just run a Core game of nWoD. No superpowered PCs, no crazy-ass organizations and resources like Hunter: just the core rules, in a scary situation. The Curse on Hill Manor module from this year's Free RPG day is one such example.

is it viable? Or does it always end in Rocks Fall &etc

>>16132907
It's viable, just don't expect happy endings.

>>16132907
Mortals only is widely regarded as the best form of WoD.

>>16132907
>>16131156

Now with 100% more SPARTAAAA

>>16132932
>widely
>me and my buddies
There's a reason most of the books aren't geared towards "mortals only".

>>16132984
Spartan version of WoD? Whoa...
>>16131156

Also,
>>16132932
how come we've never heard of it before?

>>16132907

Yes, but if you are going for a longer campaign you may wish to use Hunter (especially at the Tier 1 level) since Hunters have a bit more going for them and there's no real reason not to use professions and tactics.

>>16133182
Could you adapt WoD to other genres other than the canonical setting? Like, say film noir? Or a modern spy thriller a-la the Syriana movie?

>>16132984
>>16133019


Since this thread is being archived, I might as well port over some useful NPCs for future generations


>tl~dr, WoD in ancient times

Anyway, coming up with NPC's and I decided to make a spartan captain and worked out his stats using armory reloaded, and holy crap. Here is the basics:

Mental- 3, Physical- 4, Social- 3
Athletics- 3, Brawl- 4, Weaponry- 4

Health- 8, Willpower- 6, Speed- 13
Defense- 3, Armor 2/2

Merits- Spear Fighting 4, 'Heavy Sword' 3, Sword and Shield 5

>Dice Pools with Spear
All-Out Attack w/ Willpower- 20(9A) Def 0
Standard Attack- 11(9A) Def 11/5 Strike First
Defensive Attack- 9(9A) Def 13/5 Strike First
Defensive Stance- N/A Def 16/5

>>16133515

There's no reason NOT to do noir or spy games with WoD. nWoD is more a toolbox than a unified setting. You may have to adapt some of the weapons to be period correct, or come up with a few new pieces of gear for spies, but it's really not difficult.

>>16133002
Well, widely on the official WW fora. None of my friends role-play.

>>16132907

We played that module on Free RPG day. It was fun, though the bit where the ghost tells you everything that goes on is a bit railroad-y

Are there any other White Wolf modules a-la Pathfinder's adventure paths?
I'd love to get my hands on some more, especially since I don't have the time to build my own campaigns

Pic related - it's the kind of WoD Hunter game I'd run if I had the time to plan it

>>16133941
>>>/rs/
Search for sas in the /tg/ section.

>>16133997
I just wanna thank you! This kicks ass!

>>16124612
Nope, they really did state that they intended for the vampire forte to be social, and the werewolf forte to be physical.

>hell, you're a walking, talking Abyss engine if you believe the Pentacle and the Strix

That's just mages being retarded. Vamps have nothing to do with paradox, ghouling a mortal makes it so that they can't cause unbelief anymore, and mages are perfectly aware of Stygia, Pandemonium, and the Inferno, all hellish netherworlds more suited to be the origin of vampires than a place whose only similarity with vampires is that "they're both evil, derp derp"

Holy shit, just started reading
>>16129074
25680
25079
25016
us Core. FUCK this is good.

A WoD setting where everyone isn't (iherently) leaning towards misanthopy, assholishness and obtuse metaplot bullshit which clogged down the original oWoD Vampire & Werewolf.

Face it: it's pretty much pic related: the RPG

>>16136176
Yeah, Orpheus is some good shit.

>>16136207
Do you think White Wolf might revive it for their nWoD line. Some anons mentioned that they were bringing back Mummy to nWoD; could this also work for Orpheus

Just wanted to say that personally I love the Mage book. Yeah, you can be a powerful bastard throwing fireballs left and right, but if you don't have a LOGICAL explanation for doing all that shit, reality will blue bolt your ass faster than you can say, "magic missile."

To me it encourages you to use both forms of gaming (roleplay and rollplay) to fail, succeed, or go FUCK YEAH I'M AWESOME.

Also, so long as you keep your morality scale in check (I think it's called Pride or Ego or whatever) when you do start throwing spells around, reality doesn't get as pissed at you as it should. And you can pass off as human pretty well compared to the other templates, unless something supernatural shows up and senses your magical powers (which if they do means either you blow them up or run like hell, depending upon the situation).

I'm writing a World of Darkness campaign so my friends and girlfriend will finally give in and play a game with me. Being I've never played before and I can't find any places online for resources to help WRITE a campaign, like tutorials or a video of people playing, this thread has helped me IMMENSELY with finding the proper tone for a WoD game.

Thank you, /tg/.

>>16123052
I think for more juicy setting he should go for oWoD. Vampire: the Masquerade,
Werewolf: the Apocalypse,
Hunter: the Reckoning,
Mage: the Ascension
Changeling: the Dreaming.

>>16136322
Geist is the closest equivalent.